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Valtteri Filppula & Jimmy Howard Extensions

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Old
06-29-2012, 03:59 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
What about a contract from last year? James Neal is making 5 million and put up 80 points. If Flip puts up 80 points next season, he can get five million because his talent is worth it. It's not a big deal if he gets 5 instead of 4.5, but from a pure talent/production perspective.....he isnt worth 5 million.
Not comparable. James Neal is a 24 year old RFA. Filppula will be a 29 yea old UFA. I think these guys are more comparable:

Mikhail Grabovski: 5 years, 27.5 mil(5.55 mil AAV)
Patrick Sharp: 5 years, 29.5 mil(5.9 mil AAV)
David Jones: 4 years, 16 mil(4mil AAV)
Marty Havlat: 6 years, 30 mil(5 mil AAV)
Tim Connolly: 2 years, 9.5 mil(4.75 mil AAV)
RJ Umberger: 5 years, 23 mil(4.6 mil AAV)
Brooks Laich: 6 years, 27 mil(4.5 mil AAV)
Tuomu Ruutu: 4 years, 19 mil(4.75 mil AAV)
Ales Hemsky: 2 years, 10 mil(5 mil AAV)
Tomas Fleischmann: 4 years, 18 mil(4.5 mil AAV)

And Filppula will be considered a lot better than many of those if he puts up a 70+ point season. If he does, I think you're looking at a 5 year, 26 mil or so deal. 5 mil+ cap hit. There is always the chance of a discount or lower cap hit for longer years though.

I also think the people giving Howard less than 4 mil are out to lunch. He was an allstar and top 10 goalie this year. I think 4 years, 20 mil or 5 years, 25 mil are more realistic. Around 5 mil cap hit as well.

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06-29-2012, 04:04 PM
  #52
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Filppula being a 70 point winger would be a problem I'd LOVE to have. Gladly give him his paycheck and skip merrily into the future of winning.

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06-29-2012, 04:13 PM
  #53
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yep to both of the above. Hard to complain about a guy living up to expectations and producing.

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06-29-2012, 04:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Not comparable. James Neal is a 24 year old RFA. Filppula will be a 29 yea old UFA. I think these guys are more comparable:

Mikhail Grabovski: 5 years, 27.5 mil(5.55 mil AAV)
Patrick Sharp: 5 years, 29.5 mil(5.9 mil AAV)
David Jones: 4 years, 16 mil(4mil AAV)
Marty Havlat: 6 years, 30 mil(5 mil AAV)
Tim Connolly: 2 years, 9.5 mil(4.75 mil AAV)
RJ Umberger: 5 years, 23 mil(4.6 mil AAV)
Brooks Laich: 6 years, 27 mil(4.5 mil AAV)
Tuomu Ruutu: 4 years, 19 mil(4.75 mil AAV)
Ales Hemsky: 2 years, 10 mil(5 mil AAV)
Tomas Fleischmann: 4 years, 18 mil(4.5 mil AAV)

And Filppula will be considered a lot better than many of those if he puts up a 70+ point season. If he does, I think you're looking at a 5 year, 26 mil or so deal. 5 mil+ cap hit. There is always the chance of a discount or lower cap hit for longer years though.

I also think the people giving Howard less than 4 mil are out to lunch. He was an allstar and top 10 goalie this year. I think 4 years, 20 mil or 5 years, 25 mil are more realistic. Around 5 mil cap hit as well.

Thank you for the list it also helps to see other teams fans perspectives on players. In all honesty I probably should have dug this kind of stuff up in the OP rather than just flat stating he is going to be around the five million neighborhood.

I do think Howard could get done for around 4.5 million. So maybe and I doubt it you get Howard for 4.5 and you sell Filppula on making the same as Kronwall cap hit wise and the same as countryman Ruutu at 4.75.

I am with those that are leery of giving Howard a real long deal and certainly not at 5 million. Unfortunately I think he is correct here as he is outside our fan-base. He also holds us in a very awkward place without anything real coming right away. Mrazek could light the world on fire in the AHL and he is still probably two seasons out from a year as an NHL backup before taking a number 1 role. We need Howard for at least three seasons, even if you aren't sold on Jimmy and I actually do have some faith in him.

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06-29-2012, 06:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
And Filppula will be considered a lot better than many of those if he puts up a 70+ point season. If he does, I think you're looking at a 5 year, 26 mil or so deal. 5 mil+ cap hit. There is always the chance of a discount or lower cap hit for longer years though.

I also think the people giving Howard less than 4 mil are out to lunch. He was an allstar and top 10 goalie this year. I think 4 years, 20 mil or 5 years, 25 mil are more realistic. Around 5 mil cap hit as well.
Agree about Fil but Howard has to prove more than two good seasons and a mediocre one for me to consider him a five million tendy. Right now he's a four million one for me going into the next season. Looking at goaltenders with a cap hit of $5M or more there are Bryzgalov & Fleury who are overpaid, and the rest are vezina class goaltenders. Howard's not there, yet.

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06-29-2012, 07:24 PM
  #56
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Unless they improve/decline dramatically

4.5-5 per Fil.
4-4.5 per Howard.

3-5 years.

Detroit discount - check.

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07-01-2012, 11:52 AM
  #57
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Those are some really interesting charts, Henkka. I've never heard of this method before. Based on the Wings chart, I can totally see where you're coming from about Filppula though. Also, it looks as if Kronwall and Stuart were largely ineffective. Smith's stats look good. He's shown he is not a liability, yet. We'll see how he handles more ice-time and higher quality of competition. Emmerton, Mursak, and Homer's stats look awful. Surprisingly, Kindl's stats look the worst of all the Wings. He had low ice-time, played against the worst competition and still had a negative corsi. Not surprising, Z, Dats, and Mule were our best forwards.
Mule was the team's fifth-best forward.

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07-02-2012, 03:41 PM
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Nah, they were inflated by a ridiculous shooting %. Contrary to popular belief he wasn't shooting more.
16% is not ridiculous. That's a little above average. And it should have been expected to go up, given the way he played on the wing than at center. He was able to create much better scoring chances for himself on the wing than from the middle.

Also, 144 shots was a career high for Flip, and he shot at rate higher than the previous two years (he had more shots-per-game only once before, in 2009, but that was coupled with an abnormally low shooting %).

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07-02-2012, 03:48 PM
  #59
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Compare his playoff performances.
It's pointless. The sample sizes are too small to be meaningful, especially last season's, where it's also important to note that no one was producing. The regular season sample sizes hold far more weight.

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really doesn't have the tools,experience or mindset necessary to be anything but barely adequate at wing. It's a waste of a proven asset.
This flies in the face of what we watched for 82 games last season. Flip was magnitudes better offensively at wing than at center. He certainly had the tools and mindset. His vision going through traffic and creating scoring chances was superb. It was like what we saw in those Brunner highlight vids, except Flip was doing it against NHL top defensive pairs.

After what Flip did at wing last season, no one should ever think about putting him back at center, at least as long as Hank and Pav are around.

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07-02-2012, 03:52 PM
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I'd gladly pay Filppula $5 million on a 5-6 year deal.

The cap is now $70 million. I think people forget that.
Bingo. People, by and large, are not scaling their cap hit expectations with the cap ceiling appropriately. In today's market, Flip is easily a $5M guy (though hopefully the Wings are able to chip some off of that and we get him for about 4.5). Gaustad just brought in 3.25. Hudler just took 4. Samuelsson 3. The market changes with cap increases, I don't know why people don't get this. Or why they refuse to acknowledge it.

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07-02-2012, 04:45 PM
  #61
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Bingo. People, by and large, are not scaling their cap hit expectations with the cap ceiling appropriately. In today's market, Flip is easily a $5M guy (though hopefully the Wings are able to chip some off of that and we get him for about 4.5). Gaustad just brought in 3.25. Hudler just took 4. Samuelsson 3. The market changes with cap increases, I don't know why people don't get this. Or why they refuse to acknowledge it.
Totally agree that he'd get at least $5mil on the open market, which is why I'm hoping the Wings can sell high on him now if they get a team to look at him as a 2nd line wing/center. I like him as a player, but we have guys on the roster now and on the way up who play a similar game with a similar physical stature, so if we could sign Semin/Parise and then move Flip as part of a deal for another top 6 wing who brings size and/or physicality, I'd be ecstatic.

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07-02-2012, 05:13 PM
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Totally agree that he'd get at least $5mil on the open market, which is why I'm hoping the Wings can sell high on him now if they get a team to look at him as a 2nd line wing/center. I like him as a player, but we have guys on the roster now and on the way up who play a similar game with a similar physical stature, so if we could sign Semin/Parise and then move Flip as part of a deal for another top 6 wing who brings size and/or physicality, I'd be ecstatic.
From a value standpoint, now would be about the best time to move Flip, I agree. But I think he brings more value to the Wings than many realize. He's under-rated in that way. I'd rather keep him. You need 6 guys in your top-6, and I think Flip is only 1 of 4 clear-cut top-6 guys on the roster. I'd rather we keep him and add another top-6 guy from the UFA pool. But if we miss out on an UFA top-6, maybe dealing him for a guy like Bobby Ryan isn't a bad idea.

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07-02-2012, 05:26 PM
  #63
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From a value standpoint, now would be about the best time to move Flip, I agree. But I think he brings more value to the Wings than many realize. He's under-rated in that way. I'd rather keep him. You need 6 guys in your top-6, and I think Flip is only 1 of 4 clear-cut top-6 guys on the roster. I'd rather we keep him and add another top-6 guy from the UFA pool. But if we miss out on an UFA top-6, maybe dealing him for a guy like Bobby Ryan isn't a bad idea.
He's definitely a valuable guy, but he's complementary player and not a game-changer. I wouldn't be upset if Holland signs Parise and holds onto Flip, but I think we'd be better off adding Parise/Semin and moving Flip to bring in someone like Bobby Ryan. We have other guys who can fill out the top 6 like Nyquist or apparently Brunner if they give him a legit shot at the job, not to mention the young guys who hopefully are ready to jump to the Wings in the next few seasons.

If the Wings had some combo of Datysuk-Semin/Parise and Zetterberg-Ryan as the top 4 forwards, then fill in around them with Franzen and Nyquist or someone else for the next few seasons... yeah, I'll take that over keeping Flip.

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09-24-2012, 05:01 PM
  #64
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Really not too pumped about the contracts given to Burrows and Lehtonen, and how that could influence our negotiations with Filppula and Howard. If they both want 5 mil/year each I hope we only keep one of them. If we could get Flip for around 4 mill/year I'd be very happy.

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09-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #65
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Really not too pumped about the contracts given to Burrows and Lehtonen, and how that could influence our negotiations with Filppula and Howard. If they both want 5 mil/year each I hope we only keep one of them. If we could get Flip for around 4 mill/year I'd be very happy.
That's not going to happen.

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09-24-2012, 05:23 PM
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09-25-2012, 02:26 AM
  #67
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Yeah, season should start very soon and Flip get like 20 points with pp time and top6-role for us to even hope he signs for 4mil.

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09-25-2012, 10:13 AM
  #68
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Yeah, season should start very soon and Flip get like 20 points with pp time and top6-role for us to even hope he signs for 4mil.


Yeah, real soon.

(not meant to be offensive, just found that incredibly funny considering)

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09-25-2012, 02:50 PM
  #69
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Yeah, real soon.

(not meant to be offensive, just found that incredibly funny considering)
None taken, that's how I meant it .

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