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2012-13 CBA Discussion Thread *NHL/NHLPA Please do Something!!*

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:26 PM
  #501
Tavares2Hall
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
What defines an NHLer? Would Cizikas be considered an NHLer? Ullstrom? Ness? They all played in the NHL over the course of the year. I just feel that would be hard to define.
I would guess anyone on a one-way deal is an NHLer.

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10-16-2012, 10:06 PM
  #502
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I would guess anyone on a one-way deal is an NHLer.
+1, me thinks.

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10-16-2012, 10:29 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
What defines an NHLer? Would Cizikas be considered an NHLer? Ullstrom? Ness? They all played in the NHL over the course of the year. I just feel that would be hard to define.
My assumption is two-way deals would not count, or would be irrelevant anyway, because they stipulate an AHL salary separate from their NHL salary.

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10-16-2012, 11:12 PM
  #504
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As much as I'd love to see this work & to see a full 82 games. Condensing the schedule will lead to a lot of tired & injured teams/players heading into the playoffs. They should just go with a 70-75 game schedule if they were to start November 2nd.
TSN was the only one who reported Bettman's quote about a full season. He claimed this proposal comes from the spirit of playing a full season and that if they weren't able to get a full season in then it would be a lot longer wait. It seems the owners were only willing to come up with this new proposal on the mandate that a full season is played (good for the players as well because they get their full contract amount).

With that said, if this is turned down by the NHLPA or the counter proposal is piss poor, i think the season is a goner. Many people are thinking this is a positive step but that quote in the TSN article really makes me think twice about it...

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10-17-2012, 07:38 AM
  #505
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So if it started nov 2, isles open up that night on the road against Carolina? Or do they start from the beginning against Pitt? Because isles had a tough start and it would be good to skip that and go to November 2nd instead of start in the October part of the schedule

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10-17-2012, 07:41 AM
  #506
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Best part of this deal? Because contacts in minors would still count against cap, reentry waivers wouldn't exist. Bye bye The Rick!

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10-17-2012, 07:45 AM
  #507
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Best part of this deal? Because contacts in minors would still count against cap, reentry waivers wouldn't exist. Bye bye The Rick!
They would still exist in the sense that another team could pick up a player on re-entry waivers and only be on the hook for half the salary, but yeah, aside from blind loyalty, there would be no reason not to send DiPietro to the Bridge if he continues to show that he can't hack it in the NHL.

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10-17-2012, 07:46 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Tavaresfan91 View Post
So if it started nov 2, isles open up that night on the road against Carolina? Or do they start from the beginning against Pitt? Because isles had a tough start and it would be good to skip that and go to November 2nd instead of start in the October part of the schedule
I think they would have to re-configure the whole schedule as they want to add an extra game a week every 4 or 5 weeks or so.

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10-17-2012, 08:13 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Strummergas View Post
I think they would have to re-configure the whole schedule as they want to add an extra game a week every 4 or 5 weeks or so.
I would think they would not change it at all. Just add the missed games when they can. No reason to change everything. Just have the game that was missed from the first month added once every 5 weeks or whatever.
I am guessing most teams would have only missed 5 or 6 games by nov 2nd ?

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10-17-2012, 08:23 AM
  #510
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I am still concered IMO HRR was not the only major issue. It was a HUGE issue i am sure. However there are some other points that i am sure are some sticking points. You have to assume the players will counter this though. I think the lack of Salary rollbacks is the biggest step in the right direction. I still think the players will want more than a 5 year cap on there deals. I think they will ask for longer term there as they should aim for around 7 years. I feel 7 year length would be nice for both sides. I also think that RFA until 28 seems long to be. Maybe that's something they have to Sacrifice to get there numbers who knows. I do like the the owners are willing to commit 50M more $ to rev Sharing. That should help some team i guess. However in the mass scope that is needed is 50M enough.

If i am the players i would come back with something like this

ask the owners to put more $ into the rev share then 200M maybe 250$
to get there i guess the % would need to change slightly. Could you have Rev sharing based of HRR maybe go 49.5/49.5 and 1% to rev share etc ?
that would be nice chunk to share and it would come from both sides by them each giving up .5%
I think 1$ is something like 340M

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10-17-2012, 08:45 AM
  #511
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GREAT breakdown of the new proposal's points:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...agues-proposal

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10-17-2012, 09:21 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Strummergas View Post
They would still exist in the sense that another team could pick up a player on re-entry waivers and only be on the hook for half the salary, but yeah, aside from blind loyalty, there would be no reason not to send DiPietro to the Bridge if he continues to show that he can't hack it in the NHL.
Burnside and lebrun said in one of their stupid fn tweets that reentry waivers wouldn't exist anymore. I would have to take it they mean that there wouldn't be waivers to recall a player unless they just were really wrong.

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10-17-2012, 10:18 AM
  #513
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Wang not going to be happy

What is snow and Wang going to do about this now. In the new CBA IT SAYS - Payroll Lower Limit must be satisfied without performance bonuses. Love to see how they get around this one. This makes me happy now that Wang as to spend his millions on is team.

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10-17-2012, 10:30 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by camaro27 View Post
What is snow and Wang going to do about this now. In the new CBA IT SAYS - Payroll Lower Limit must be satisfied without performance bonuses. Love to see how they get around this one. This makes me happy now that Wang as to spend his millions on is team.
The proposed cap ceiling is $59m. That would make the floor $43m.


Below is a link to actual payroll,without the bonuses. The isles are just above $41m.

http://capgeek.com/islanders/

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10-17-2012, 10:34 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
I would think they would not change it at all. Just add the missed games when they can. No reason to change everything. Just have the game that was missed from the first month added once every 5 weeks or whatever.
I am guessing most teams would have only missed 5 or 6 games by nov 2nd ?

The isles had 9 games scheduled for October. November 2 - April 13 is a day over 23 weeks so I am figuring that it would be an extra game every 2 to 3 weeks. Not sure where bettman got the 5 weeks from but at least for the Isles it doesnt seem right. Maybe he meant a home date every 5 weeks?

many of the sites have already removed the dates for the october games, for now espn still shows the cancelled games:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/schedule...york-islanders

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10-17-2012, 10:38 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan View Post
GREAT breakdown of the new proposal's points:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...agues-proposal

•Embracing an idea first proposed by Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke years ago, the league’s offer included the ability to retain salary in trades. Under the expired CBA, teams could not trade or keep parts of a player’s salary in a trade. This new provision would obviously facilitate trades in a cap market that saw deals minimized, especially in the first half of the season.
I dislike this part of the proposal. I know a lot of execs, fans and some media have complained about the cap slowing down the number of trades, but I like gms having to clear out salary and fit player X onto their roster.

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Old
10-17-2012, 11:30 AM
  #517
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Under this CBA, the Islanders would get revenue sharing. All teams, outside the top 10 grossing clubs would be eligible.

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10-17-2012, 11:41 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Under this CBA, the Islanders would get revenue sharing. All teams, outside the top 10 grossing clubs would be eligible.
Yea more teams get sharing. The question is is the pool of 200M enough.
I heard that its 50M than last season. However it sounds like more teams would be taking from the pot ?

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Old
10-17-2012, 12:07 PM
  #519
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So I ran some quick numbers. The average salary in the NHL is 2.4 million. Therefore just taking the starters 19 players each player makes $29,268.30 per game. The combined players from each team make 16.7 million per game. Fehr is complaining about 232million. The players will lose that if locked out for 14 games. If they lockout the entire year they will lose six times that amount. So its better to take the deal rather than lockout all season

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Old
10-17-2012, 12:59 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
What defines an NHLer? Would Cizikas be considered an NHLer? Ullstrom? Ness? They all played in the NHL over the course of the year. I just feel that would be hard to define.
One-way contracts - not too hard.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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10-17-2012, 01:13 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
One-way contracts - not too hard.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Disagree what if i had a two way deal but was currently in the NHL playing.

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Old
10-17-2012, 01:15 PM
  #522
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Disagree what if i had a two way deal but was currently in the NHL playing.
Then you get counted against the cap.

All the guys on the NHL roster plus all one way contracts signed.

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Old
10-17-2012, 01:41 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
What defines an NHLer? Would Cizikas be considered an NHLer? Ullstrom? Ness? They all played in the NHL over the course of the year. I just feel that would be hard to define.
Players making more then $105,000.


http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2012...ers/in/3280311
NHL CBA Proposal: How It Would Affect the New York Islanders
By Dominik on Oct 17, 6:30a
NHL players "buried" in the AHL, Wade Redden-style, count against the cap

Essentially, AHL salaries of players on NHL contracts do not count against the cap, up to $105,000. Which also means the end of re-entry waivers.

If this happened, it would prevent Glen Sather from being able to bury his mistakes in the minors while adding a Gaborik or Richards as Dolan picks up the tab. (Oh, how that poor, poor Sather was handcuffed during his years in small-market Edmonton.)

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10-17-2012, 02:11 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
One-way contracts - not too hard.

Cheers,

Dan-o
they gotta be careful to close the "cheater loopholes"

like the agent who insists on a NMC or no minors clause or who insist on a two way deal BUT that comes with a really high AHL salary and how that might impact the cap.

It's those details that make the CBA fail to meet expectations.

And writing a legal document without loopholes, despite the smartest people you can find, isn't easy.

And it's only in the days and weeks AFTER the CBA that the sharp agents figure out how to cheat and the owners fall prey to the competitive nature of the game and it all goes to hell (relatively speaking. It's hell for millionaires

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10-17-2012, 02:39 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
they gotta be careful to close the "cheater loopholes"

like the agent who insists on a NMC or no minors clause or who insist on a two way deal BUT that comes with a really high AHL salary and how that might impact the cap.
Look's like that's solved (105,000+). As far as loopholes and contracts are concerned, this is always a problem that's impossible to solve. There's only one elegant solution in a sports context: trust in the executive. If the players and Bettman, and Bettman and the owners had a good relationships, solutions can be hammered out on as things come up.

It's better to try to repair relationships than to labor to close loopholes.

It's like corrupt countries. Their laws don't have more loopholes than ours. It's just that people don't respect the authorities, and the authorities don't respect the people.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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