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2012-13 CBA Discussion Thread *NHL/NHLPA Please do Something!!*

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Old
12-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #901
redbull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
I find it unbelievable how they can have so many "unproductive" meetings. One would think with so many meetings they would be getting something done, at least getting closer to a deal.

Maybe its a play on the media, but its ****ing annoying for sure. I'm really sick of checking the news and reading about yet another unproductive meeting.
lawyers being coy and managing the PR war in the media
AND
owners that are intent on bullying, knowing the players will cave

Elliotte Friedman's recent article is interesting

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12-14-2012, 09:09 AM
  #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
lawyers being coy and managing the PR war in the media
AND
owners that are intent on bullying, knowing the players will cave

Elliotte Friedman's recent article is interesting
I suppose you mean this one:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-on-paper.html

I agree with Friedman that the CBA no longer seems to be the big issue. Rather, I think the NHL wants to defeat the union entirely.

Think about it this way. Fehr is the best sports union head there has ever been. Love him or hate him, it's true. If Fehr can't keep the union together, nobody will. Obviously, if Fehr can't keep the union together, he will resign. So, If the NHL gets the union to cave, they will essentially OWN the union like the the NFL owned the NFLPA.

The one thing Friedman understands, like most media members, being more educated about the situation than average fans, is that this is *hardly* the first time Fehr has been in this position. Neither Bettman nor anyone in ownership scares Fehr.

And this is why the NHL appears nervous while Fehr does not - he's got experience they lack. That's the takeaway from that article. Botta has been saying the same thing for weeks now.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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12-14-2012, 10:25 AM
  #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I suppose you mean this one:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-on-paper.html

I agree with Friedman that the CBA no longer seems to be the big issue. Rather, I think the NHL wants to defeat the union entirely.

Think about it this way. Fehr is the best sports union head there has ever been. Love him or hate him, it's true. If Fehr can't keep the union together, nobody will. Obviously, if Fehr can't keep the union together, he will resign. So, If the NHL gets the union to cave, they will essentially OWN the union like the the NFL owned the NFLPA.

The one thing Friedman understands, like most media members, being more educated about the situation than average fans, is that this is *hardly* the first time Fehr has been in this position. Neither Bettman nor anyone in ownership scares Fehr.

And this is why the NHL appears nervous while Fehr does not - he's got experience they lack. That's the takeaway from that article. Botta has been saying the same thing for weeks now.

Cheers,

Dan-o
I want Bettman and the league front office to 'sweat the small stuff'.

Close as many loopholes as they can, knowing that big market teams and agents will be looking for them.


If it comes across as Bettman and co. looking petty, so be it.

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12-14-2012, 11:36 AM
  #904
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The loopholes must be closed and bettman is completely right in trying to do so, otherwise there is no point in wasting half a season (or more!).

In the long run it will benefit both owners and players alike if this thing is sorted out now for the foreseeable future and both will continue to prosper. Salaries will go up soon enough as revenue increases so all we can do is pray both sides do the right thing a come to an agreement ASAP!

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:25 PM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
And this is why the NHL appears nervous while Fehr does not - he's got experience they lack. That's the takeaway from that article. Botta has been saying the same thing for weeks now.
thanks for the right link, going on no sleep, up working all night!

I'd love to know what enraged Bettman so much. As much as I think this lockout is stupid, given the issues the league faces, the game faces, I will admit that it must be completely fascinating behind closed doors.

Both Bettman and Fehr are extremely bright and obviously great at what they do.

Would be an amazing documentary and labour course at university, if they filmed all this stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
The loopholes must be closed and bettman is completely right in trying to do so, otherwise there is no point in wasting half a season (or more!).

In the long run it will benefit both owners and players alike if this thing is sorted out now for the foreseeable future and both will continue to prosper. Salaries will go up soon enough as revenue increases so all we can do is pray both sides do the right thing a come to an agreement ASAP!
I don't understand why the 5 year contract limit is such a huge deal for the NHL, especially if they get the 5% reduction part which makes it impossible to mess with the cap. Even if it were moved to 6-7 years, it wouldn't mean much of a difference to the league and would be a big perceived win for the players.

I'm really curious what the union is really asking for that's so infuriating to the NHL. I don't get it.

As long as the union has SOME rights associated with free agency, arbitration, they'll get a fair market value (in a competitive environment) maintaining 50/50 revenue split ensuring more franchises can be healthier, more places to play, more jobs for more players.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:46 PM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Would be an amazing documentary and labour course at university, if they filmed all this stuff.
Calling HBO... NHL Lockout 24/7... Two crews follow Bettman and Daly and the Fehr boys around.

Would be awesome.

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:05 PM
  #907
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I like the idea of the buyouts counting against the cap and the idea of teams being able to offer their own players 8 yr deals, but only if the players have been in their organization for 5 yrs.

One earlier proposal I don't see listed, I hope will be part of the new cba: players in the AHL making over $105,000 counting against the NHL cap.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...cba-right-here
By Scott Burnside | ESPN.com
One NHL governor provided ESPN.com with the framework for a deal he insisted would be palatable to both sides. Assuming the elements that were discussed last week in New York were still in place -- like $300 million in "make-whole" monies, agreements on free agency and arbitration rights -- the governor said he believes the following elements would represent the middle ground in the outstanding contracting, CBA term and transition issues.



-A nine-year CBA with a seven-year out for either side.
-A six-year contract limit with front-load/back-diving protection and eight-year limits for players who have been with a team for five years.
-Some simple buyout option as long as the buyouts are within the salary cap.

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Old
12-16-2012, 10:42 AM
  #908
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I wonder how the union votes today. If they agree to part with the NHLPA the bottom half of the membership will guarantee themselves worse contracts moving forward. What do they need, 30% to pass? I think it is possible if the top 30% believe they will make out better.

Also, what happens to all of the prospects and young players we have? Does everyone become a free agent regardless of their age once their current contract expires? This could be a huge blow to our club.

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Old
12-16-2012, 11:21 AM
  #909
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I wonder how the union votes today. If they agree to part with the NHLPA the bottom half of the membership will guarantee themselves worse contracts moving forward. What do they need, 30% to pass? I think it is possible if the top 30% believe they will make out better.

Also, what happens to all of the prospects and young players we have? Does everyone become a free agent regardless of their age once their current contract expires? This could be a huge blow to our club.
From an article I read, it is more of a bargain threat then anything, from a union that has little to lose by starting the legal process:
the owners would face having to pay the NHLPA triple the damages if the NHLPA won it's court case. I think the players are saying they expect to lose $700m, so the owners would have to pay $2.1 billion dollars.

The problem for the players, is that it would take 2-3 yrs for the case to wind it's way thru the courts and there is no guarantee the NHLPA would win.

No way would either side let this lockout drag out another 2-3 yrs. I'm not worried about the NYI losing their deep prospect pool. I'm concerned that some owners will blink, when faced with the possibility of triple damages in court.

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Old
12-16-2012, 03:20 PM
  #910
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Essentially, the game of chicken will end sometime in January. The PA has rested its position (not publicly) on the dare that the owners will not want to cancel another season. The League has rested itself (again not publicly) on the lost salary by players since last go round more than 200 players were "lost" and 700 players lost a year of salary plus the rollback.

The PA has just stalled enough to push tg league to a "what you gonna do" decision. At the same point, the league has done the same to the PA.

It'll be interesting how it ends. I think the league will publicly announce a "full season cancellation" date sometime in the second week of January with a 5-7 response time. It will discuss the economics of day are critical to the overall health of the league. It will put enormous pressure on the PA to sign something.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:41 AM
  #911
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What stupid **** is going on...

from yahoo...

"The players began voting Sunday whether to allow the union's executive board to disband the NHLPA through a "disclaimer of interest." The New York Daily News reported Monday that approval for dissolving the union is expected to occur by Thursday, at which point players could file lawsuits alleging the league is an illegal monopoly."


LOL.. the NHL is an illegal monopoly? Go play somewhere else you spoiled Dbags. This league is so watered down with talent, losing someone else who dumps and chases, blocks shots, and "bangs in a rebound, after a scrum in front" would hardly matter.


1. The NHL will be back in January. Its impossible to believe that they will lose another season. League suicide.

2. The players are going to bend over and take it on this one. Who cares really.

3. The league needs to get rid of some of the sunbelt teams. Its killing this league.

4. My two year old son wants hockey already, he keeps saying "ockey kok" when seeing the hockey puck on top of the TV.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:46 AM
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
What stupid **** is going on...

from yahoo...

"The players began voting Sunday whether to allow the union's executive board to disband the NHLPA through a "disclaimer of interest." The New York Daily News reported Monday that approval for dissolving the union is expected to occur by Thursday, at which point players could file lawsuits alleging the league is an illegal monopoly."


LOL.. the NHL is an illegal monopoly? Go play somewhere else you spoiled Dbags. This league is so watered down with talent, losing someone else who dumps and chases, blocks shots, and "bangs in a rebound, after a scrum in front" would hardly matter.


1. The NHL will be back in January. Its impossible to believe that they will lose another season. League suicide.

2. The players are going to bend over and take it on this one. Who cares really.

3. The league needs to get rid of some of the sunbelt teams. Its killing this league.

4. My two year old son wants hockey already, he keeps saying "ockey kok" when seeing the hockey puck on top of the TV.
I sort of agree with the players. I think there gripe is that 30 Competitors cant do what they are trying to do ?
Also the NBA players did the same thing and as soon as it was a real chance that the NBAPA could do this there was a deal done fast.

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Old
12-25-2012, 10:30 AM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
What stupid **** is going on...




1. The NHL will be back in January. Its impossible to believe that they will lose another season. League suicide.



3. The league needs to get rid of some of the sunbelt teams. Its killing this league.

.
1. I'm also cautiously optimistic about getting the games started in Jan.

3.It's ironic to see an Isle fan, posting about contracting or relocating some teams.
On quite a few message boards and in out of town papers, we've seen similar suggestions for the Isles.


I keep reading that Bettman is trying to crush the union, that a deal's in sight if he'll stop trying to wipe the floor up with Fehr and the NHLPA. I am in the owners corner because Wang keeps the NYI a cap floor team and the NHL's proposals are the best chance for the isles to be competitive, but I don't want the league crushing the union. That'll just lead to unnecessary bitterness and nastier negoiations in the future.

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Old
12-25-2012, 08:17 PM
  #914
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XMAS with the NBA

Congrats to David Stern and the league for putting together an amazing Christmas Day match ups for the fans. Of course if this was the NHL they would be off entirely regardless. It all comes down to Marketing and sadly in that department the NHL is a JOKE!

The temperature for the winter classic would of been ideal for an outdoor game but instead ill stick to my Twilight Zone Marathon as usual. The longer the lock out continues the less relevant this sport becomes. No major news/sports outlet even covers this!!

Just end the season already and I hope they lose the right to own the Stanley Cup.

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Old
12-27-2012, 02:11 PM
  #915
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I don't know if the article below has been posted. It's 2 weeks old. I found it to be interesting.

It takes a look at the possible effects, of a new cba.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...a-new-CBA.html
But according to Larry Brooks of The New York Post, the owners are strongly against amnesty buyouts as part of the transition toward a 50-50 split of hockey related-revenue between the owners and the players.

If the new CBA sets a $60 million cap for next season with no amnesty buyouts, no allowance for teams to absorb salary to facilitate trades and restrictions on player demotion, the summer of 2013 could see an unusually high number of players moved.

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12-28-2012, 09:15 AM
  #916
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412368
Seems like some new news. It sounds like the owners moved a little bit and made a new offer to players.
Looks like the highlights are a Extra year from there 5 year Contract to 6 years. Seven years if resign. Also going to a 10% Variance from 5%
Also hearing something around the one time buyout.

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:23 AM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412368
Seems like some new news. It sounds like the owners moved a little bit and made a new offer to players.
Looks like the highlights are a Extra year from there 5 year Contract to 6 years. Seven years if resign. Also going to a 10% Variance from 5%
Also hearing something around the one time buyout.
See you later Dipietro you glass man

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:34 AM
  #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412368
Seems like some new news. It sounds like the owners moved a little bit and made a new offer to players.
Looks like the highlights are a Extra year from there 5 year Contract to 6 years. Seven years if resign. Also going to a 10% Variance from 5%
Also hearing something around the one time buyout.

I understand that the league needs to do something to kickstart these talks, reach an agreement, but I'll be unhappy about the one time buyout not counting against the cap.

DiPietro's buyout hit would be $1.5m per and the isles are so far from the ceiling, it wouldn't hamper the team.

Other teams will wiggle out of cap trouble with this buyout. I'd hope to see a flurry of forced trade action, with Snow making a major move.

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12-28-2012, 09:45 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I understand that the league needs to do something to kickstart these talks, reach an agreement, but I'll be unhappy about the one time buyout not counting against the cap.

DiPietro's buyout hit would be $1.5m per and the isles are so far from the ceiling, it wouldn't hamper the team.

Other teams will wiggle out of cap trouble with this buyout. I'd hope to see a flurry of forced trade action, with Snow making a major move.
You know Donald Fehr will find a way to screw this up with a counter offer. The good thing is, if he does, the owners will just cancel the season right on the spot. If this offer is real, I can't see how the players could say no to it, but with Fehr running the show, I have no confidence at all this will get done.

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12-28-2012, 09:55 AM
  #920
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You know Donald Fehr will find a way to screw this up with a counter offer. The good thing is, if he does, the owners will just cancel the season right on the spot. If this offer is real, I can't see how the players could say no to it, but with Fehr running the show, I have no confidence at all this will get done.
Maybe this puts pressure on Fehr, from the moderates among the players.

From what's being reported, there are about 20 teams who don't want the one time amnesty buyout. They feel it's too big an advantage for the deep pocketed teams.

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Old
12-28-2012, 11:17 AM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Tavaresfan91 View Post
See you later Dipietro you glass man
Why buy him out as long as you can keep insuring him?

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Old
12-28-2012, 12:43 PM
  #922
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ESPN's LeBrun just posted a lot of information on the new deal if anyone is interested here's the first few posted but it has a lot more info so just follow the link:

Quote:
• Ten-Year Agreement (through 2021/22 season); Parties have mutual opt-out right
after 8 years.

• 50-50 Revenue Split between Clubs and Players with current HRR Accounting.

• $300 million in “Make-Whole” payments (outside the system) to compensate Players
for the reduced value of Player contracts in the early years of the new CBA.

• No contractual “roll backs” of Player Salaries.

• Clubs can operate with an effective Upper Limit of $70.2 million in 2012/13; must
come into compliance with $60 million Upper Limit for the start of the 2013/14
season.

• Each Club will be entitled to execute up to one “Compliance Buy-Out” prior to the
2013/14 season pursuant to which payments made to the Player will not be charged
against the team’s Cap, but will be charged against the Players’ Share.

• Establishment of a Defined Benefit Pension Plan that will provide maximum
permissible benefits to Players upon retirement. The Plan will be funded with
contributions out of Players’ Share and $50 million of the “Make-Whole” payment
amount of $300 million will be allocated and set aside to fund potential underfunding
liabilities of the Plan at end of CBA.

• Rules for Entry Level System, Salary Arbitration and Group 3 Unrestricted Free
Agency will remain unchanged.

• Maximum contract length of 6 years subject to a Club’s ability to re-sign its own
Player for a term of up to 7 years (provided the Player played his last full season
with the re-signing Club). In addition, year-to-year Salary variability will be limited
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ec-27-proposal

James Duthie of TSN's twitter has this other tid bit:

Quote:
One of the more intriguing things in NHL offer is a draft lottery that would give all non-playoff teams a chance at first pick. Overdue.

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12-28-2012, 12:58 PM
  #923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
ESPN's LeBrun just posted a lot of information on the new deal if anyone is interested here's the first few posted but it has a lot more info so just follow the link:



http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ec-27-proposal

James Duthie of TSN's twitter has this other tid bit:
i think it sounds nice. However i do not think the 8/10 years will sit well with Fehr and the players

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12-28-2012, 01:05 PM
  #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
ESPN's LeBrun just posted a lot of information on the new deal if anyone is interested here's the first few posted but it has a lot more info so just follow the link:



http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ec-27-proposal

James Duthie of TSN's twitter has this other tid bit:
Don't like the draft bit. Imagine the uproar after the Stanley Cup Champs get the #1 overall pick. Not fair at all.

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Old
12-28-2012, 01:08 PM
  #925
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i think it sounds nice. However i do not think the 8/10 years will sit well with Fehr and the players
there needs to be things that "don't sit well" on BOTH sides, that's when you know a deal is close. This is good news. We all hope something gets done.

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