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Old
07-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  #101
Tuco
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
We still have another 2 months where anything can happen but as of today our roster doesn't give me the warm fuzzies of a playoff team.

Again I bring up the fact that past December 2011, We treaded water as a .500 hockey club. We only had 2 months of sustained good hockey in October and November of last year.
Did last year's roster give you warm playoff fuzzies at this point?

But yes, I know what you mean. Lots of things will have to go right for us, even if we still got an additional impact player. We just have to believe.

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07-18-2012, 12:47 PM
  #102
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At this point, I think this coming years team is about on par overall with last season's one. I think some players will make more of an impact and others will bring less. The problem I see is that since almost every team on paper improved in some level, so it will be harder to retain that division title, let alone make the playoffs. Injuries did play a factor last season and it showed after November, but chances are we're going to see a decent size number of them again. I'm eager to see how this does since I don't really know what to expect from them overall. My gut says probably somewhere between 7th-10th in the East, but it could be higher or lower depending on certain factors. Either way, I'm really looking forward to the growth overall over the next few seasons more. It should be mighty interesting with all of these top prospects slide their way slowly into top players in the NHL hopefully.

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07-19-2012, 04:56 AM
  #103
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Our offense is better, our defense is worse. We'll see how it all comes together. I don't see the rest of the East improving that drastically anyway though. I actually like our top 3 forward lines, lots of potential there.

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07-19-2012, 05:11 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Our offense is better, our defense is worse. We'll see how it all comes together. I don't see the rest of the East improving that drastically anyway though. I actually like our top 3 forward lines, lots of potential there.
Yeah losing garrison doesn't help but tbh I didn't want his big contract, it's too risky for this team. I'm not saying garrison is going to be a bust, but I agree with DT's decision to play it safe. It's unlikely garrison will have a year like he did, points wise, thus you don't want him setting a salary standard on a lower budget team. We just need ellerby or another youngster to step it up. One of them might.

On offense, I do wish for another fa signing. I think huberdeau will need help from a more veteran presence. I like the muscle added though. Maybe upshall will stay healthy. Maybe bergenheim will get going earlier.

Still wishing for semin, but I understand why it won't happen: money and to some extent, attitude.

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07-19-2012, 09:38 AM
  #105
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We need a center more so than another winger. I really doubt Huberdeau can play center, and like Flash, I believe Mueller is better at wing than center

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07-19-2012, 01:17 PM
  #106
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We need a center more so than another winger. I really doubt Huberdeau can play center, and like Flash, I believe Mueller is better at wing than center
But talent wise, there's nothing left at center, I don't want a, maybe, 30 points old man (Hecht, Langkow or Arnott).

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07-19-2012, 01:24 PM
  #107
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But talent wise, there's nothing left at center, I don't want a, maybe, 30 points old man (Hecht, Langkow or Arnott).
Maybe we look to trade? I don't know... also remember that if we get Luongo it doesn't mean we are just getting Luongo.

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07-19-2012, 02:12 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by p9ers View Post
But talent wise, there's nothing left at center, I don't want a, maybe, 30 points old man (Hecht, Langkow or Arnott).
Why not? That's all we need short-term. Bjugstad is this year's Huberdeau. Could have made the team this year. Extremely good chance of being on the Panthers next year.

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07-19-2012, 02:20 PM
  #109
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I think Huber's gonna do a lot better than most think. I'm keeping my expectations low, but it's possible he could be awesome. It would also be nice to have Skille flying around for a full season (hopefully not into the boards). Dude's got jump and brings tons of energy.
We've almost got the same team as last year but with a full year of experience together. I feel good about it.

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07-19-2012, 02:27 PM
  #110
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Is there anyone out there who we could give an offer sheet too? I am not sure what exactly we have to give up to offer sheet a player,but is there any good players out there who we could go after?

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07-19-2012, 02:30 PM
  #111
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Is there anyone out there who we could give an offer sheet too? I am not sure what exactly we have to give up to offer sheet a player,but is there any good players out there who we could go after?
Offer sheeting very rarely happens. If it does happen usually its for a really good player, and 95% of the time the other team will take the player back. It's also kinda frowned upon, we wouldn't even be able to take anyone from RFA because the other team will match that offer. Unless it is someone like Shea Weber who wants 14M a season, then the other team will decide if they want 4 1st round picks or that player.

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07-19-2012, 02:40 PM
  #112
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I don't think offer sheets are wise, at all. Philly still needs the draft and could be losing the most important part of it...for four years. Further, Edmonton and Toronto are the only two teams to hand out offer sheets, how has it gone for them? Especially TO! Philly is stronger than those teams, and weber a better player, but there's still big consequences.

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07-19-2012, 06:50 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
Is there anyone out there who we could give an offer sheet too? I am not sure what exactly we have to give up to offer sheet a player,but is there any good players out there who we could go after?
No. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Offer sheets are not a viable asset acquisition tool. The offer sheet system is in place to ensure that young RFA's are paid a fair wage in line with the current market. It's insurance against cheap owners and GM's abusing players who are without contracts but not yet UFA's.

Of course, the offer sheet system is utilized by teams who might be just one piece of the puzzle away from a Cup, or when a team thinks a talent is so generational any amount of late first rounders is worth the sheet, which is exactly what we're seeing now with Philly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I don't think offer sheets are wise, at all. Philly still needs the draft and could be losing the most important part of it...for four years. Further, Edmonton and Toronto are the only two teams to hand out offer sheets, how has it gone for them? Especially TO! Philly is stronger than those teams, and weber a better player, but there's still big consequences.
The first part of your statement is spot on, but your second is very incorrect.

Scott Stevens. St. Louis went on an offer sheet frenzy long ago, sheeting Scott Stevens in 1990 and Brendan Shanahan in 1991 (which eventually forced them to give up Stevens as compensation).

Adam Graves. Snatched away by the Rags when he was a nobody. The Oilers didn't match. The Rags also tried this again with Joe Sakic, interestingly enough.

There are a few others I can't quite remember. Most of them are matched, but some are not. Some even work out in the offering team's favor, ala Graves.

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07-19-2012, 07:06 PM
  #114
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Meant in today's NHL, Buffalo's matched a player signed and I think it messed them up a bit. I just think offer sheets are a mess and a mistake.

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07-19-2012, 07:27 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
No. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Offer sheets are not a viable asset acquisition tool. The offer sheet system is in place to ensure that young RFA's are paid a fair wage in line with the current market. It's insurance against cheap owners and GM's abusing players who are without contracts but not yet UFA's.

Of course, the offer sheet system is utilized by teams who might be just one piece of the puzzle away from a Cup, or when a team thinks a talent is so generational any amount of late first rounders is worth the sheet, which is exactly what we're seeing now with Philly.



The first part of your statement is spot on, but your second is very incorrect.

Scott Stevens. St. Louis went on an offer sheet frenzy long ago, sheeting Scott Stevens in 1990 and Brendan Shanahan in 1991 (which eventually forced them to give up Stevens as compensation).

Adam Graves. Snatched away by the Rags when he was a nobody. The Oilers didn't match. The Rags also tried this again with Joe Sakic, interestingly enough.

There are a few others I can't quite remember. Most of them are matched, but some are not. Some even work out in the offering team's favor, ala Graves.
Even more interestingly, Sakic signed it. Avs matched obviously

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07-19-2012, 07:28 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Meant in today's NHL, Buffalo's matched a player signed and I think it messed them up a bit. I just think offer sheets are a mess and a mistake.
You sure? I can't for the life of me ever remember Toronto being involved in the offer sheet business.

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07-19-2012, 07:28 PM
  #117
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Even more interestingly, Sakic signed it. Avs matched obviously
Yes, true. I thought my post implied that.

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Old
07-19-2012, 07:32 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post

Adam Graves. Snatched away by the Rags when he was a nobody. The Oilers didn't match. The Rags also tried this again with Joe Sakic, interestingly enough.

There are a few others I can't quite remember. Most of them are matched, but some are not. Some even work out in the offering team's favor, ala Graves.
Who?



Best offer sheet move ever. But I'm biased.

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07-20-2012, 01:24 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Meant in today's NHL, Buffalo's matched a player signed and I think it messed them up a bit. I just think offer sheets are a mess and a mistake.

no - they didn't match. the player was Steve Bernier, ironically enough, and they let the Canucks have him ( smart move in hindsight). the blues later gave bernier an offer sheet, which the canucks did match.

EDIT: now that i think about it more - you were probably thinking of Thomas Vanek who the Oilers gave an offer sheet to, and is still probably overpaid to this day because of it.

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07-20-2012, 01:32 AM
  #120
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no - they didn't match. the player was Steve Bernier, ironically enough, and they let the Canucks have him ( smart move in hindsight). the blues later gave bernier an offer sheet, which the canucks did match.

EDIT: now that i think about it more - you were probably thinking of Thomas Vanek who the Oilers gave an offer sheet to, and is still probably overpaid to this day because of it.
Yeah, was Vanek, didn't know (or just forgot) Bernier was offer sheeted, lol wow.

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07-20-2012, 02:46 AM
  #121
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Offer sheets are just jerk moves if you ask me. There are very few situations where they're applicable. Dustin Penner was one of them. The point of restricted free agency is to influence all youngsters into playing for the same team and helping build a franchise. Unless the team offer sheeting is offering much more than the player is worth and is giving up a hefty pick compensation (and the player is not an elite player), offer sheets will almost always be matched.

So in the end, most offer sheets are statements that claim "we know he's your property, but we are jealous so we will tell you what you have to pay for him'. I'm not a fan. I hope the new CBA helps avoid this kind of conflict.

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07-20-2012, 05:19 AM
  #122
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I see nothing wrong with offer sheets.

The only thing I don't like about contracts, is what Philly did with Weber, giving him a "poison contract".

I hope the new CBA makes cap=salary. No more loopholes like that anymore.

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07-20-2012, 05:42 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
I see nothing wrong with offer sheets.

The only thing I don't like about contracts, is what Philly did with Weber, giving him a "poison contract".

I hope the new CBA makes cap=salary. No more loopholes like that anymore.
I agree with you, I dont see a problem with the idea of offer sheets...just how some of them have been done like this one with Weber.

I know the owners are asking for that exact thing that cap hit = salary. I think now they may want to include something like 50% of the contract has to be salary and not related to bonuses. That would've changed the Weber deal since $68 million is just in bonuses I believe.

The problem with the loopholes it seems to me is that the players dont care to get rid of them since they get paid either way. And the loopholes are mostly found by GMs making these contract offers, though probably with the help of the players' agents. So to me, its a problem of the league not handing out stiffer penalties for finding loopholes and allowing them to go thru. It took several contracts that were basically cap circumvention before the league put a stop to it with Kovalchuk's deal. I'm still surprised that they didnt block this Weber deal TBH.

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Old
07-20-2012, 06:23 AM
  #124
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The one thing I find interesting about the Weber deal in comparison to the others similar to it is that it isn't actually attempting to circumvent the cap by front-loading it. Instead they are trying to make it so Nashville are unable to afford the first couple of years of it.

I don't think it needs to be made so that the actual salary has to be identical to the caphit but it should be adjusted so there can't be such steep differences in the amount paid each year. There should also be a limit to the length of contracts or at least something like introducing the 35+ rule to all contracts that take players over 35 years old.

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07-20-2012, 09:50 AM
  #125
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But talent wise, there's nothing left at center, I don't want a, maybe, 30 points old man (Hecht, Langkow or Arnott).
Been thinking about this a bit. What about Alexei Yashin on a 1yr deal if the price is right? Natural center, big center (he's like 6'3"). Granted he's like 38 so who knows if he'd handle an 82 game regular season, but a guy like him might fit the bill?

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