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Old
08-07-2012, 09:53 AM
  #226
Cowbell232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Never said Vanderbeek was looking to refinance the entirety of the debt. He must, however, refinance the $80M that matured in September 2011 or risk losing the arena. That, or declare BK.
He couldn't come to terms with the lender to pay it? Why does it have to be refinanced?

The truth is, we have a ton of armchair financial advisers on this board, and that might be more depressing to me then our armchair GMs.

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08-07-2012, 09:56 AM
  #227
kyle evs48
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To be fair, I have heard numerous times that JVB was looking to restructure the $80M in debt.

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08-07-2012, 10:14 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
He couldn't come to terms with the lender to pay it? Why does it have to be refinanced?

The truth is, we have a ton of armchair financial advisers on this board, and that might be more depressing to me then our armchair GMs.
Come to terms with the lender to pay it? What does that mean? Where do you think he's going to get the funds to do that?

There are three main ways to re-pay a lender: 1) sell the asset that is encumbered, and use the proceeds to pay off the loan, 2) take out another loan or loans, typically referred to as a refinance, to pay off and effectively replace the first loan, or 3) Use your own equity, such as cash or the sale of other assets (such as the securitized TV rights that we heard about several months ago) to help pay off the loan. But whatever the avenue, Vanderbeek needs to come up with $80M. Right now he's short, likely because he is over-levered on the arena and can't find the same appetite for lending as in 2005-06.

Haha, so some people with an existing knowledge of finance trying to speculate about what the situation is is depressing to you? Geez, lighten up.

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08-07-2012, 10:19 AM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
To be fair, I have heard numerous times that JVB was looking to restructure the $80M in debt.
I'm sure JVB would love to restructure the debt. Get the loan extended, get a principal write down, lower the interest rate. Problem is, none of the lenders will be very amenable to that because it hurts their return.

Now, if JVB threatens bankruptcy, it could push lenders into a corner. They might not want to deal with the hassle of court proceedings, and all the while Vanderbeek might stop paying interest or end up paying the same interest he is now. So maybe they offer Vanderbeek an option to buy the loan for a discount, or maybe offer it to another buyer for a discount. All depends on how they value the arena.

Declaring bankruptcy has its costs, though. It will hurt Vanderbeek's financial viability in the future.

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08-07-2012, 10:40 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Come to terms with the lender to pay it? What does that mean? Where do you think he's going to get the funds to do that?

There are three main ways to re-pay a lender: 1) sell the asset that is encumbered, and use the proceeds to pay off the loan, 2) take out another loan or loans, typically referred to as a refinance, to pay off and effectively replace the first loan, or 3) Use your own equity, such as cash or the sale of other assets (such as the securitized TV rights that we heard about several months ago) to help pay off the loan. But whatever the avenue, Vanderbeek needs to come up with $80M. Right now he's short, likely because he is over-levered on the arena and can't find the same appetite for lending as in 2005-06.

Haha, so some people with an existing knowledge of finance trying to speculate about what the situation is is depressing to you? Geez, lighten up.
He doesn't need to come up with 80M. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand either. I don't give a **** what big words and phrases you want to come up with. The reality is if he goes to a lender and says "I either file for bankruptcy or give you 70M" do you think the lender will take the 70M? There's a reasonable chance.

And what depresses me is the constant need for so many people to use as many new big words they learned when they have the same clue we all have - NONE. Absolutely ****ing none. Your 'existing knowledge of finance' in this particular area is probably zero too, considering this is such a small, niche market.

I digress, but some people just are never wrong, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
I'm sure JVB would love to restructure the debt. Get the loan extended, get a principal write down, lower the interest rate. Problem is, none of the lenders will be very amenable to that because it hurts their return.

Now, if JVB threatens bankruptcy, it could push lenders into a corner. They might not want to deal with the hassle of court proceedings, and all the while Vanderbeek might stop paying interest or end up paying the same interest he is now. So maybe they offer Vanderbeek an option to buy the loan for a discount, or maybe offer it to another buyer for a discount. All depends on how they value the arena.

Declaring bankruptcy has its costs, though. It will hurt Vanderbeek's financial viability in the future.
The same above applies to this part too.

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Old
08-07-2012, 10:48 AM
  #231
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lol where the **** is he getting 20 million in a week
Vegas

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Old
08-07-2012, 10:53 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
He doesn't need to come up with 80M. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand either. I don't give a **** what big words and phrases you want to come up with. The reality is if he goes to a lender and says "I either file for bankruptcy or give you 70M" do you think the lender will take the 70M? There's a reasonable chance.

And what depresses me is the constant need for so many people to use as many new big words they learned when they have the same clue we all have - NONE. Absolutely ****ing none. Your 'existing knowledge of finance' in this particular area is probably zero too, considering this is such a small, niche market.

I digress, but some people just are never wrong, huh?

The same above applies to this part too.
I'm sorry you're so offended by "big words."

And I clearly acknowledged that the BK scenario is an option. Not sure why you have your panties in a bunch there. I'm not sure what I could possibly be "wrong" about, since I listed a variety of different scenarios and never stipulated that one of them would definitely occur. Just seems like you're overly insecure here for some reason.

And you're right, I've never dealt with a deal on a sports arena. However, a knowledge of leverage and how loans are structured is helpful when viewing any deal. And also, just so you know, declaring bankruptcy has costs and will significantly lower Vanderbeek's credit standing.

And we'll see if the lenders offer a discount prior to August 14th. They've had a year to do it, and haven't yet. If the lenders think they have a case in BK court and can eventually foreclose on the arena, they might not be willing to accept any discount. We don't know the specifics.

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08-07-2012, 11:00 AM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
I'm sorry you're so offended by "big words."

And I clearly acknowledged that the BK scenario is an option. Not sure why you have your panties in a bunch there. I'm not sure what I could possibly be "wrong" about, since I listed a variety of different scenarios and never stipulated that one of them would definitely occur. Just seems like you're overly insecure here for some reason.

And you're right, I've never dealt with a deal on a sports arena. However, a knowledge of leverage and how loans are structured is helpful when viewing any deal. And also, just so you know, declaring bankruptcy has costs and will significantly lower Vanderbeek's credit standing.

And we'll see if the lenders offer a discount prior to August 14th. They've had a year to do it, and haven't yet. If the lenders think they have a case in BK court and can eventually foreclose on the arena, they might not be willing to accept any discount. We don't know the specifics.
If you think I'm offended, you're missing the point of my post.

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08-07-2012, 11:04 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
If you think I'm offended, you're missing the point of my post.
Well you said you find the commentary in this thread "depressing", and seemed to have an abrasive reaction to the use of big words, so it certainly seems like there are some negative emotions simmering there.

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Old
08-07-2012, 11:51 AM
  #235
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It's been over a year and I have yet to see a real impact.. The most we've heard about was that Lou has some internal cap, yet Parise was given a very competitive offer and the rest of the team is pretty much the same

Shocking that The Post and their "sources" have set a new doomsday date.. They have yet to be correct on any of them

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Old
08-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Come to terms with the lender to pay it? What does that mean? Where do you think he's going to get the funds to do that?

There are three main ways to re-pay a lender: 1) sell the asset that is encumbered, and use the proceeds to pay off the loan, 2) take out another loan or loans, typically referred to as a refinance, to pay off and effectively replace the first loan, or 3) Use your own equity, such as cash or the sale of other assets (such as the securitized TV rights that we heard about several months ago) to help pay off the loan. But whatever the avenue, Vanderbeek needs to come up with $80M. Right now he's short, likely because he is over-levered on the arena and can't find the same appetite for lending as in 2005-06.

Haha, so some people with an existing knowledge of finance trying to speculate about what the situation is is depressing to you? Geez, lighten up.
Speculate is right. This isn't a 30 year house mortgage trying to get re-financed, so the cut and dry basics mentality on what's going on is kind of pointless. I think that's the depressing part he was speaking to, not the pompous attitude or language in general.

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08-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin226 View Post
It's been over a year and I have yet to see a real impact.. The most we've heard about was that Lou has some internal cap, yet Parise was given a very competitive offer..

Shocking that The Post and their "sources" have set a new doomsday date.. They have yet to be correct on any of them
Its been 8/14 for a while now.

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08-07-2012, 11:55 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Colin226 View Post
It's been over a year and I have yet to see a real impact.. The most we've heard about was that Lou has some internal cap, yet Parise was given a very competitive offer and the rest of the team is pretty much the same

Shocking that The Post and their "sources" have set a new doomsday date.. They have yet to be correct on any of them
If doomsday were inevitable, the league would have stepped in by now.

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08-07-2012, 11:56 AM
  #239
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Everytime I see an article by Josh Kosman I have the same reaction. It feels like a combination of the following:






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08-07-2012, 12:08 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Speculate is right. This isn't a 30 year house mortgage trying to get re-financed, so the cut and dry basics mentality on what's going on is kind of pointless. I think that's the depressing part he was speaking to, not the pompous attitude or language in general.
Speculation, no more, no less. It's what the majority of the posts on this board consist of.

No one's treating this like a 30yr mortgage on a house. What, in particular, is so cut and dry about the speculation so far?

And if the above makes you "depressed", I suggest you stop posting on internet forums.

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08-07-2012, 12:10 PM
  #241
kyle evs48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin226 View Post
It's been over a year and I have yet to see a real impact.. The most we've heard about was that Lou has some internal cap, yet Parise was given a very competitive offer and the rest of the team is pretty much the same

Shocking that The Post and their "sources" have set a new doomsday date.. They have yet to be correct on any of them
Lou said it was a competitive offer. That doesn't mean it was truly competitive with a heavily frontloaded $98-million.

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Old
08-07-2012, 12:12 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevsfn95 View Post
Its been 8/14 for a while now.
Before last season I recall it being "by November" (or something like that).. Then it was that Parise would be traded by the trade deadline.. Then it was that we'd be hunted down as soon as the season ended....

I'm still waiting for them to be right about something a source tells them other than that there is a financial problem (which everyone has reported on)

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08-07-2012, 12:15 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
And if the above makes you "depressed", I suggest you stop posting on internet forums.
And again, you misunderstand the content of my post. But go ahead, tell me again how I shouldn't post here.

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08-07-2012, 12:42 PM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockie View Post
lol where the **** is he getting 20 million in a week
Time to get a kickstarter going.


Quote:
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Vegas
Might be better to go for AC. Save on the transportation costs.

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08-07-2012, 12:43 PM
  #245
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Might be better to go for AC. Save on the transportation costs.
Empire Records Devils.

Love it. I'll get my motorcycle.

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08-07-2012, 01:02 PM
  #246
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Just do like the Packers and sell a share for $250.

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08-07-2012, 01:19 PM
  #247
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Just do like the Packers and sell a share for $250.
They tried that by selling bricks in Championship Plaza (pretty much the same thing, you pay the team some money and get something that looks cool in your office)

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Old
08-07-2012, 01:21 PM
  #248
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Just do like the Packers and sell a share for $250.
Lou would have a nervous fit if the Devils had a stockholder meeting like the Packers do.


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Old
08-07-2012, 04:48 PM
  #249
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I really think you're going to see the arena and the team split... Just my humble opinion.
If that happens, wouldn't that make it easier to move the team?

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08-07-2012, 05:22 PM
  #250
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lol where the **** is he getting 20 million in a week
The Powerball jackpot is...................

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