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Chris Stewart for Paul Martin

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Old
06-30-2012, 02:59 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Dave Molinari of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has it on “rock-solid authority” that the Penguins are not actively shopping defenseman Paul Martin.

The Penguins have, however, received expressions of interest about the 31-year-old, reports Molinari


http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...opping-martin/
Its called a weak UFA class. Martin was good two years ago. Yep, key part in that "two years ago". Good luck with Martin, no chance Doug "the GM of the year" Armstong trades for an overpaid player that the Penguins are trying to dump. Next.

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06-30-2012, 03:05 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Like I said rumors from the media.
You expect GMs to give quotes about who they tried to trade for? You asked and I gave you as definitive a link as is possible in these things. I am not sure what more you wanted. A secret tape recording I made?

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06-30-2012, 03:10 AM
  #28
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You expect GMs to give quotes about who they tried to trade for? You asked and I gave you as definitive a link as is possible in these things. I am not sure what more you wanted. A secret tape recording I made?
I could supply you a link that stats the world is flat.

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06-30-2012, 03:23 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
I could supply you a link that stats the world is flat.
Now you are just arguing to be argumentative. You asked for 'proof' and I linked a legitimate news source who has access to hockey executives. I have no clue what kind of greater 'proof' you could reasonably expect. I was trying to help someone who I thought was genuinely asking the question if there was a link to this with an actual link. I had no clue you were not looking for an answer but instead an argument.

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06-30-2012, 03:27 AM
  #30
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Shero outright said "I'm not calling teams on Paul Martin, they're calling me." That's not rumors from the media, that's direct from the person who would know most about this situation.

Of course I'm sure you'll want to discredit that somehow WeirdAl, but if you're going to do so, provide some sort of "proof" like you're asking for, otherwise it's mere "HFboards speculation" and "rumors from HFboards"

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Old
06-30-2012, 03:30 AM
  #31
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Armstrong's Comments on Stewart:

"This is a huge year for Chris Stewart, not only as a St. Louis Blue but as an NHL hockey player," Blues general manager Doug Armstrong said this week. "He's a player at (age) 22 and 23 had 28 goals in this league. It's a difficult goal-scoring league. He didn't have a season that he had hoped to have, or we expected him to have. But I don't think it would be wise for us to throw the baby out with the bath water.
"The easiest thing is to trade someone or make a change, but you better bring someone in more competent than the one you're leaving. I believe 'Stewy' has a chance to be what he wants to be and now it's up to him to become that. I think he can be one of the elite power forwards in the game."

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06-30-2012, 03:41 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Like I said rumors from the media.
Shero's said the same thing that he's received calls (or was it offers? Can't remember) about Martin. Or is he lying too?

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06-30-2012, 03:48 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Armstrong's Comments on Stewart:

"This is a huge year for Chris Stewart, not only as a St. Louis Blue but as an NHL hockey player," Blues general manager Doug Armstrong said this week. "He's a player at (age) 22 and 23 had 28 goals in this league. It's a difficult goal-scoring league. He didn't have a season that he had hoped to have, or we expected him to have. But I don't think it would be wise for us to throw the baby out with the bath water.
"The easiest thing is to trade someone or make a change, but you better bring someone in more competent than the one you're leaving.
I believe 'Stewy' has a chance to be what he wants to be and now it's up to him to become that. I think he can be one of the elite power forwards in the game."
With the wingers you have, and Tarasanko coming over, and your need for a D (Hitch wants a top 4 PMD), I would think that Stewy will likely be one of the first wingers moved. I don't see DA keeping him around if he's playing on the 3rd line.

Could there be some deal to be made around Martin and Stewart? Sure there could be. Martin has had 1 bad year out of 8. In the right system, he's a quality top 4D. GMs will overlook 1 poor season (his 1st season with the Pens was a great season) and still give him credit (and value) on the previous 7. Pens would likely still have to add a bit. Possibly a 2nd and so so prospect. But it's not completely out of this world for a trade like this to happen.

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06-30-2012, 03:58 AM
  #34
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The shellacking us Pens fans have given Martin for his last season and not being what OUR team needed for the money paid pretty much insures that few HF members and casual Pens watchers will think this reasonable.

As regards value, if one allows that the past season was very much untypical for Martin, I think this trade would make a lot of sense for both teams. Absent that St.Louis gives up too much potential and takes on too much risk.

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06-30-2012, 04:06 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
With the wingers you have, and Tarasanko coming over, and your need for a D (Hitch wants a top 4 PMD), I would think that Stewy will likely be one of the first wingers moved. I don't see DA keeping him around if he's playing on the 3rd line.

Could there be some deal to be made around Martin and Stewart? Sure there could be. Martin has had 1 bad year out of 8. In the right system, he's a quality top 4D. GMs will overlook 1 poor season (his 1st season with the Pens was a great season) and still give him credit (and value) on the previous 7. Pens would likely still have to add a bit. Possibly a 2nd and so so prospect. But it's not completely out of this world for a trade like this to happen.
The Blues don't need a top 4 defenseman........They need a #2....Martin is not a #2 he's over paid as well. Armstrong has also said it makes no sense to trade a 24 y/o for a 30 y/o player. That the ages of the players would have to be comparable....

Also the part that you quoted is not Martin after last season at all.....


Last edited by HooliganX2: 06-30-2012 at 04:25 AM.
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06-30-2012, 04:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
The shellacking us Pens fans have given Martin for his last season and not being what OUR team needed for the money paid pretty much insures that few HF members and casual Pens watchers will think this reasonable.

As regards value, if one allows that the past season was very much untypical for Martin, I think this trade would make a lot of sense for both teams. Absent that St.Louis gives up too much potential and takes on too much risk.
Yep. It's like how Kulemin sucks because he only had 7 goals last year. Mind you, everyone else thinks Stewart can be had on the cheap because he had a crappy season also.

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06-30-2012, 04:46 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
With the wingers you have, and Tarasanko coming over, and your need for a D (Hitch wants a top 4 PMD), I would think that Stewy will likely be one of the first wingers moved. I don't see DA keeping him around if he's playing on the 3rd line.

Could there be some deal to be made around Martin and Stewart? Sure there could be. Martin has had 1 bad year out of 8. In the right system, he's a quality top 4D. GMs will overlook 1 poor season (his 1st season with the Pens was a great season) and still give him credit (and value) on the previous 7. Pens would likely still have to add a bit. Possibly a 2nd and so so prospect. But it's not completely out of this world for a trade like this to happen.
Stewart might be the first winger moved, but I'm not sure if it will happen in the off season. Hitchcock made some comments recently about the option of moving one of Steen, McDonald or Schwartz to center next year. Considering how closely he works with Armstrong, to me that looks like Armstrong isn't real thrilled about the options out there for our 3rd center for next season so as of right now I consider us having one less winger.


I see the Blues going for Suter and Garrison first because they won't cost us any trade assets. If we don't get either of those two then making a trade becomes a more viable option, but that trade might not happen in the off season either. As long as Pietrangelo is healthy, the Blues can get by with the Carlo Colaiaccovo's of the world playing next to him in the regular season. Armstrong likely has a cutoff line where he signs a "meh" d-man on the cheap, or we just play Ian Cole and keeps working the trade lines to find exactly what he wants, for the price he wants. The recent chatter about Bouwmeester makes me think that if he is going to go after a top four d-man with a sizable salary he's not going to give up a hell of a lot to get them via trade. Like you, I believe Martin carries a bit more trade value with GM's but the price could be more than what the Blues want to give up at this time.

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06-30-2012, 06:10 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
The Blues don't need a top 4 defenseman........They need a #2....Martin is not a #2
Do me a favor and look at Martins minutes, quality of competition, production and CORSI over the past 8 years (including last season) and explain to me how he is not a first pairing D-man.

I've asked this of many, and no one has gotten close. Perhaps you will be the precocious one?

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06-30-2012, 06:21 AM
  #39
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The Pens get a player who'd fit perfectly with them and they get to get rid of one of their worst contracts. What don't you Blues fans get about why this is a perfect proposal?

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06-30-2012, 06:26 AM
  #40
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I don't think this is a good deal for St. Louis, but just showing another source stating Martin is generating interest:

@CraigCustance

Quote:
Lots of interest in Paul Martin but not sure the Penguins move him unless they think they can get Ryan Suter.

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Old
06-30-2012, 06:33 AM
  #41
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assume the title should be corrected to "chris stewarts takes warm dump on paul martin"

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06-30-2012, 06:35 AM
  #42
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The only people that think Martin won't get a solid return are people that have no clue what they're talking about.

1 year does not define a players value, especially if your scouts are worth anything and you realize it's not the player, but the player within the system.

Will Martin get less of a return then he normally would due to his inability to play the Pens system? Yes. Will that be just a couple picks? No.

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Old
06-30-2012, 06:41 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
With the wingers you have, and Tarasanko coming over, and your need for a D (Hitch wants a top 4 PMD), I would think that Stewy will likely be one of the first wingers moved. I don't see DA keeping him around if he's playing on the 3rd line.

Could there be some deal to be made around Martin and Stewart? Sure there could be. Martin has had 1 bad year out of 8. In the right system, he's a quality top 4D. GMs will overlook 1 poor season (his 1st season with the Pens was a great season) and still give him credit (and value) on the previous 7. Pens would likely still have to add a bit. Possibly a 2nd and so so prospect. But it's not completely out of this world for a trade like this to happen.
BlueBeard touched on it, but the Blues had the best defensive record in the League last season with Colaiacovo playing with Pietrangelo. Going forward the Blues need a long term partner for Pietrangelo, but it isn't something that we are in an urgent desperation for now.

So it makes zero sense for the Blues to be giving up a big 24 year old winger, who is under-performing, but with the clear potential of 30+ goals for an under-performing 31 year old who would become the teams highest earner. Cole is NHL ready, not ideal to put him on the top line immediately, but he showed last season he is capable enough if need be.

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06-30-2012, 06:45 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
You may be right that Stewart has the potential to be better. I have a feeling though that NHL GM's don't have such a tainted view of Paul Martin as HF posters. Just 2 yrs ago he was the most sought after UFA dman, and while he hasnt been great for Pittsburgh he was okay in the 1st year and just decent last year. Stewart was also a **** show last year and doesn't fit well with St Louis.
Being the most sought after ufa dman at free agency time when the class is piss poor is like saying you're the smartest person in spec Ed.

Martin sucks and Kennedy isn't worth much. Nobody would want Martin. Or at least they shouldn't.

Paul Martin carrying value makes me believe that Kaberle has value.

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06-30-2012, 07:15 AM
  #45
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I am not as down on Martin as everyone else here is. However, lets be a little realistic about what his return value is.

When fans of neither team voice opinions that Stewart has more value then Martin, I think that most GMs would hold the same thoughts.

If the Blues were to take the cap hit of Martin for Stewart - then the Pitt is adding a fair amount of value. That value isn't Kennedy or mid to late picks. But something of significant value.

Most trades don't have clear winners, unless they are moves for the future including lots of prospects. Hockey trades need to benefit both teams and this one doesn't help the Blues.

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06-30-2012, 07:34 AM
  #46
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why does this keep coming up??

the blues do not need or want Martin or Kennedy....period

there is nothing that will make this right....period

also, the blues just signed stewart so i doubt he will be moved until the trade deadline

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06-30-2012, 07:40 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
I am not as down on Martin as everyone else here is. However, lets be a little realistic about what his return value is.

When fans of neither team voice opinions that Stewart has more value then Martin, I think that most GMs would hold the same thoughts.

If the Blues were to take the cap hit of Martin for Stewart - then the Pitt is adding a fair amount of value. That value isn't Kennedy or mid to late picks. But something of significant value.

Most trades don't have clear winners, unless they are moves for the future including lots of prospects. Hockey trades need to benefit both teams and this one doesn't help the Blues.
Is it OK if I point out that Paul Martin had 3 points less than Stewart in 6 less games, and Kennedy had 3 more in 19 games less (as a 3rd liner)?

We're talking about a situation where Pittsburgh would likely only deal Martin if they sign Suter, and in that case they have the talents coming up from the farm to deal Martin who has been playing first pairing minutes and first pairing QOC in both his years on Pittsburgh, just like he did at New Jersey since always.
St.Louis has Terasenko and Schwartz coming in, Stewart's spot on the top6 is obviously in danger in St.Louis, just as Stewart quite clearly has suffered just as much with Hitchcock's system as Martin did in Bylsma's last year.

Again - that pesky question: Do me a favor and look at Martins minutes, quality of competition, production and CORSI over the past 8 years (including last season) and explain to me how he is not a first pairing D-man.

If no one can, does that not suggest something? And since when would it be strange if a top pairing D-man could yield a young potential top forward?

Further, we are not talking about a guy who has been racking up big minutes on bad teams. He has been on a sub 100 points team once. When New Jersey got 99 in 07/08....

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06-30-2012, 08:14 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Is it OK if I point out that Paul Martin had 3 points less than Stewart in 6 less games, and Kennedy had 3 more in 19 games less (as a 3rd liner)?

We're talking about a situation where Pittsburgh would likely only deal Martin if they sign Suter, and in that case they have the talents coming up from the farm to deal Martin who has been playing first pairing minutes and first pairing QOC in both his years on Pittsburgh, just like he did at New Jersey since always.
St.Louis has Terasenko and Schwartz coming in, Stewart's spot on the top6 is obviously in danger in St.Louis, just as Stewart quite clearly has suffered just as much with Hitchcock's system as Martin did in Bylsma's last year.

Again - that pesky question: Do me a favor and look at Martins minutes, quality of competition, production and CORSI over the past 8 years (including last season) and explain to me how he is not a first pairing D-man.

If no one can, does that not suggest something? And since when would it be strange if a top pairing D-man could yield a young potential top forward?

Further, we are not talking about a guy who has been racking up big minutes on bad teams. He has been on a sub 100 points team once. When New Jersey got 99 in 07/08....
And let's disreguard that Stewart is half a decade younger, makes 2 million less, and had back to 28 goal seasons going into last year.

I've stated this before, and I will continue to do so. If it's not a top pairing D-Man or legit top 6 Center, you are going to overpay. And further more, if Toronto can't convince us to take Gunnarsson for Stewart, then you don't have any chance convincing us to take Martin.

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Old
06-30-2012, 08:36 AM
  #49
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after seeing what Michalek returned you think Martin will somehow return more?
Michalek was a cap dump and didnt work out a whole lot more than Martin. Martin has better potential. Its funny how Stewart is valued on potential but Martin is only valued on his last season. Martin had a better season than Stewart.

Quote:
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Orpik for Stewart is closer
No Martin for Stewart is a lot closer. Stewart was ****ing terrible last season and played on the 4th line and was scratched. Martin played on the top pairing and against the best players. Orpik has a lot more value than Stewart. Orpik to St Louis means in a package for Shattenkirk/Pietrangelo or Schwartz +. Pittsburgh is not downgrading in a trade. It would be St Louis. Pittsburgh is in win now mode, while St Louis has a a year or two. So if you dont want to give the better player to Pittsburgh you are not getting Orpik.

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06-30-2012, 08:40 AM
  #50
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I think Martin would thrive under a coach like Hitch. I understand the hesitation to move a really good young player like Stewart but I think Martin would be a great addition to their team. I'd imagine the Blues may want to see if the Pens land a name D like Suter then they won't need Martin as much and consequently they may part with him much cheaper and not have to give up a guy like Stewart.

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