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Old
07-05-2012, 11:24 PM
  #976
The Nemesis
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ChiSox series probables:

Game 1: Friday @ 8pm ET/5pm PT
Aaron Laffey (0-0) vs Jake Peavy (6-5)

Game 2: Saturday @ 4pm ET/1pm PT
Ricky Romero (8-3) vs Gavin Floyd (6-8)

Game 3: Sunday @ 2pm ET/11am PT
Brett Cecil (2-1) vs TBA

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07-05-2012, 11:31 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Not sure what your rant about Wells is all about but the proof is all over the Internet with interviews on how AA has contridicted himself about money and what he can spend. There is tons of articles on sportsnet and tsn going back to last year about able to spend then right before winter meetings there wasn't any so one day I will post

Listen i am not bashing AA but I don't drink his koolaid of wait for these great prospects they will change this team. I would love too see what he can do with open purse strings cause I can't tell you if he did have a free reign of spending you would not see Lind and other scrubs on this team he would have gone after better players especially at 1b and LF with good veteran producers and not play the prospect game

Why do you think they are hyping the farm and always talk about those guys? Budget team wanting you to believe that the prospects are the futur while the MLB team is mediocre and not able to put money in it to make a run. They sell hope its been going on since Rogers took over and decreased payroll by a good chunck and when these prospects flame out like Russ Adams and the great past jays prospects they will sell you on the next wave.

When your best player says go for it this year he knows the window doesn't always open up and he know his window is closing
Can you read? AA has always said he can spend if he wants to spe4nd. He didn't want to spend on Pujols or Fielder because 10 year contracts are stupid. Are you aware that the Jays contract limits come from Pat Gillick? Do you even know who is Pat Gillick?

As for Vernon Wells, I thought from your rant that big spending teams automatically release contracts when they aren't doing well. Therefore, Vernon must have been released already?

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:36 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Yeah, Francisco was so bad with his 3.55 ERA and that 1.37 ERA in the 2nd half. We totally should have DFA'd him!

Rauch wasn't good but he was still passable. He just shouldn't have been used in high leverage situations.

Why did let Scott Downs go? Because we were rebuilding so collecting picks is important. Jays would have had to at least match Downs offer and who knows if he even wanted to stay on a re-building club. He would be great to have but we have this guy named Darren Oliver who is kinda ****ing awesome. Luis Perez ain't too shabby either.

And the financial constraints don't have anything to do with this situation. If we release Cordero, Jays aren't losing anything extra amount of money or anything unless you think they don't want to release him and pay a guy major minimum salary that will replace him. That will totally empty their wallets.


I don't think Lind should have been a starting 1st basemen either but Jays seem to think he will bounce back.

Kept McGowan because they figured he would stay healthy. Hell, they even gave him a contract extension... that's how cheap they are!

Yeah I think Jays should have brought in an inning eating veteran starter too but they thought they had enough pitching depth that they didn't need it. They were doing just fine too before 3 starters went down. That's a massive blow to ANY team.

You make it seem like we're the Tampa Bay Rays or something that barely some sort of payroll. They are still spending around 80M which is perfectly fine for a re-building club. Unless you're Cubs/Mets/Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers, teams won't spend much money when they are re-building.
Fransico blew chunks in the first half and cost the team so many wins that he was removed from the closers role and only got it back cause Rauch sucked even more.

We got Oliver cause we needed to replace downs which is a year late.

The payroll should be top 10. We have a rich owner and a top 4 market to play in but they are acting like a budget team

Yeah nothing wrong with rebuilding and god knows they needed to but there is still and MLB team you need to better.

What bothers me is that they are in contention and AA either has been told not to increase the payroll or he is unwilling to make a move.

Listen I go back to the Gillick deal for Alomar sometimes you need to go for it and right now is that time. Obviously don't sell the farm but parting with some prospects to bring back a quality pitcher or 1b would be a huge boost to the team

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:40 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
.

Listen I go back to the Gillick deal for Alomar sometimes you need to go for it and right now is that time. Obviously don't sell the farm but parting with some prospects to bring back a quality pitcher or 1b would be a huge boost to the team
You mean the deal that actually freed up money when they dealt veterans McGriff and Fernandez? Who are the 2 all-stars you would have traded this last off season? Yeah, that's what I thought.

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07-05-2012, 11:48 PM
  #980
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If I recall correctly, AA has never said that he can spend as much as he wants nor has he said that he is a strict internal cap that he needs to adhere to. I believe what he has said is that he can go to his bosses with any kind of deal but he has to convince them as to why it's a good investment and essentially, they get the final say. It doesn't seem like he has near as much control over the cap as someone like Burke does. MLSE tells Burke 'spend as near to the cap as you need to' and Burke makes every decision after that. AA has his bosses alongside him every step of the way it seems.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:54 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
Coco has been a humangous disapointment. I was excited when they signed him, now Rauch and Francisco would be an upgrade.
Don't feel too bad. I was pumped that they got him.

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07-05-2012, 11:54 PM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Fransico blew chunks in the first half and cost the team so many wins that he was removed from the closers role and only got it back cause Rauch sucked even more.
He was still good overall and dominated in the 2nd half. Had an injury early on I think as well explaining his troubles.

Quote:
We got Oliver cause we needed to replace downs which is a year late.
We had Rzep last year and Perez. It's not like Downs would have got us to the playoffs or anything.
Quote:
The payroll should be top 10. We have a rich owner and a top 4 market to play in but they are acting like a budget team
No, it shouldn't because they would be losing money because not enough fans show up. Payroll correlates with fans attendance. I bet you are one of those people that thinks that Phillies/Rangers/Tigers have been spending the way they have for a long time.

Quote:
Yeah nothing wrong with rebuilding and god knows they needed to but there is still and MLB team you need to better.
This is AA's 3rd season... sorry if he hasn't lived up to your crazy expectations of AA turning this team into a championship in such a short amount of time.

Quote:
What bothers me is that they are in contention and AA either has been told not to increase the payroll or he is unwilling to make a move.
Quote:
"Every dialogue Iím trying to have now, itís all about trying to improve the 2012 product, that isnít going to change," he said. "Iím active in having talks, that doesnít mean anything is going to get done, but definitely all the trade dialogue Iím handling right now is all about making the 2012 team better."
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...line_buy_mode/



Sounds like you really know your stuff, huh?
Quote:
Listen I go back to the Gillick deal for Alomar sometimes you need to go for it and right now is that time. Obviously don't sell the farm but parting with some prospects to bring back a quality pitcher or 1b would be a huge boost to the team
Rightttttttt. He needs to pull off a deal to get a HOF.

And you clearly have no idea what AA is even doing. It's not like all he is doing is drafting and waiting 6-7 years until all these guys are ready. No, he is trading guys like Molina to get a good reliever and their closer in Santos. He traded a young pitching prospect in Stewart + bullpen arms to get a potential superstar in Colby Rasmus. Also traded Gonzalez + decent prospects in Pastornicky and Tim Collins to buy low on Yunel.

I bet you will also disregard the fact Jays were in on guys like Latos/Gio Gonzalez/Cahill/Pinedat hat got traded. Only reason he didn't trade for them was because the price was crazy high.

Yeah, certainly sounds like all AA is doing is sitting on prospects.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:04 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
No, it shouldn't because they would be losing money because not enough fans show up. Payroll correlates with fans attendance. I bet you are one of those people that thinks that Phillies/Rangers/Tigers have been spending the way they have for a long time.
The one correction I would make is that payroll correlates to revenue. Which for many teams are billion dollar deals.

http://*******************/articles/...ngs-**********

"Michael Ilitch, former minor leaguer and founder of Little Caesarís Pizza, worth an estimated of $1.5 billion, is that filthy rich owner. But before 2008, he hadnít cozied up to the idea of spending it, at least enough to, you know, actually spend it.

What happened in 2008, you ask?

The Tigers landed a monster network TV deal with Fox Sports Net Detroit worth $1 billion."

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:07 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Not sure what your rant about Wells is all about but the proof is all over the Internet with interviews on how AA has contridicted himself about money and what he can spend. There is tons of articles on sportsnet and tsn going back to last year about able to spend then right before winter meetings there wasn't any so one day I will post

Listen i am not bashing AA but I don't drink his koolaid of wait for these great prospects they will change this team. I would love too see what he can do with open purse strings cause I can't tell you if he did have a free reign of spending you would not see Lind and other scrubs on this team he would have gone after better players especially at 1b and LF with good veteran producers and not play the prospect game

Why do you think they are hyping the farm and always talk about those guys? Budget team wanting you to believe that the prospects are the futur while the MLB team is mediocre and not able to put money in it to make a run. They sell hope its been going on since Rogers took over and decreased payroll by a good chunck and when these prospects flame out like Russ Adams and the great past jays prospects they will sell you on the next wave.

When your best player says go for it this year he knows the window doesn't always open up and he know his window is closing
I don't know how to highlight one specific part of a post but this is only aimed towards the jays hyping their prospects. I see this posted a ton but I can't find anything of the jays website about their prospects ever unless one has been promoted to the majors. I don't watch a lot of video but I just don't get where this so called hyping is coming from. Please explain. I rarely see interviews with AA or know where to find them but I just don't hear or see anything about prospects and I'm a prospects guy. Especially, to the extent guys like you carry on about it. It annoys me like crazy all this made up propaganda from posters like yourself.

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07-06-2012, 12:11 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Fransico blew chunks in the first half and cost the team so many wins that he was removed from the closers role and only got it back cause Rauch sucked even more.

We got Oliver cause we needed to replace downs which is a year late.

The payroll should be top 10. We have a rich owner and a top 4 market to play in but they are acting like a budget team

Yeah nothing wrong with rebuilding and god knows they needed to but there is still and MLB team you need to better.

What bothers me is that they are in contention and AA either has been told not to increase the payroll or he is unwilling to make a move.

Listen I go back to the Gillick deal for Alomar sometimes you need to go for it and right now is that time. Obviously don't sell the farm but parting with some prospects to bring back a quality pitcher or 1b would be a huge boost to the team
We are in contention with 3 starters out and our closer out. Not the best time to go all in. There are a LOT of teams looking for pitching right now which makes things even more difficult. You act as though they can just magically pull the best pitchers from any team they want but refuse to. We are 3 games back of a wild card spot with 4 teams ahead of us so it's a huge mountain to climb with very key injuries.

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07-06-2012, 06:07 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post

This is AA's 3rd season... sorry if he hasn't lived up to your crazy expectations of AA turning this team into a championship in such a short amount of time.




If anybody wants to compare AA to Gillick then they must use the proper time frame.

Here are the facts:

1977
1978
1979
1980
1981
1982

The Jays finished last every one of those years under the leadership of Pat Gillick.

It wasn't until his 7th season that the team had a winning season. They had good years in 1983 and 1984, but weren't really contenders for the division title.

They started contending consistently in 1985, but didn't win a championship until 1992.

AA is in his third year as GM. Gillick's third year as GM was 1979 and that was the worst year the Jays ever had with him running the baseball department.

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:30 PM
  #987
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Didn't see it posted:

MORROW INJURY UPDATE: Farrel said that Morrow is ahead of schedule for rehab, threw from 150ft yesterday. Next step is to throw from mound, but not until fully symptom free.

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:34 PM
  #988
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In an hour or so I'll be closing this GDT and starting a fresh one before game time. No point in going into the game with only 10-15 posts to burn here.

just a heads up.

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:53 PM
  #989
Nasty Nazem
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Originally Posted by captn View Post
The one correction I would make is that payroll correlates to revenue. Which for many teams are billion dollar deals.

http://*******************/articles/...ngs-**********

"Michael Ilitch, former minor leaguer and founder of Little Caesar’s Pizza, worth an estimated of $1.5 billion, is that filthy rich owner. But before 2008, he hadn’t cozied up to the idea of spending it, at least enough to, you know, actually spend it.

What happened in 2008, you ask?

The Tigers landed a monster network TV deal with Fox Sports Net Detroit worth $1 billion."
Yeah. I said fans attendance since fans attendance generates revenue but yeah, a big TV deals helps too but those just don't get handed out to every team.

I would be interested to know how much Rogers make off the TV revenues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
If anybody wants to compare AA to Gillick then they must use the proper time frame.

Here are the facts:

1977
1978
1979
1980
1981
1982

The Jays finished last every one of those years under the leadership of Pat Gillick.

It wasn't until his 7th season that the team had a winning season. They had good years in 1983 and 1984, but weren't really contenders for the division title.

They started contending consistently in 1985, but didn't win a championship until 1992.

AA is in his third year as GM. Gillick's third year as GM was 1979 and that was the worst year the Jays ever had with him running the baseball department.
Well, there ya go. It takes time.

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07-06-2012, 07:15 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Yeah. I said fans attendance since fans attendance generates revenue but yeah, a big TV deals helps too but those just don't get handed out to every team.

I would be interested to know how much Rogers make off the TV revenues.



Well, there ya go. It takes time.
I would be too but I am yet to see these numbers. There was an article during the winter about what formula they use to decide what Sportsnet must pay for the rights but they still did not mention how much Sportsnet makes in ads.

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07-06-2012, 07:16 PM
  #991
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8:00 starts would be the only downfall of playing in the central. I still hope we get to make the move one day.

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Old
07-06-2012, 07:29 PM
  #992
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Anybody have a line up for tonight?

Edit: Never mind, I found it myself!

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Old
07-06-2012, 07:30 PM
  #993
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Brett Lawrie 3B
Colby Rasmus CF
Jose Bautista RF
Edwin Encarnacion 1B
Adam Lind DH
Yunel Escobar SS
Rajai Davis LF
Kelly Johnson 2B
J.P. Arencibia C

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