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Niskanen re-signs. Two years, $2.3 per

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06-30-2012, 02:46 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
True. I just don't want to see Orpik and Niskanen together. I think Suter could also make Niskanen look much better than he is, which is more important, IMO. Letang will be just fine with Orpik.
I'm not sure about that. Orpik was as bad or worse than any Penguins defenseman last season. I'd rather have the best top pairing in the NHL with Suter and Letang than to make sure Niskanen looks better.

Suter on Letang's pairing allows Kris to become a legit Norris contender, in my opinion.

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06-30-2012, 02:46 PM
  #77
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I'm hoping the Pens can solidify the top 4 D men and then have Engo play the #5 role while the rookies get the #6. Suters nice but I wouldn't even mind a guy like Zanon.

The only thing Martin has going for him now is as a lure for Parise. I don't think I've hated a Penguin this much since TBo was around.

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06-30-2012, 02:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
What gets me about this whole conversation is that people say we don't need a defenseman because of who we have in the system completely negating the fact that none of these guys are sure things to become even close to what Ryan Suter is.

To get a little perspective on this, take a look at HF stuff written around 2004 or 2005 about Chicago.
That's a fair comment. I guess my response would be, what are the odds that not even two of: Niskanen, Despres, Morrow, Pouliot, Harrington, Maatta end up being NHL quality D in the next 3 years, who can play well in their own end + move the puck very well and contribute offensively... say to the tune of 35 pts a year as a decent benchmark?

I think Niskanen himself could turn out to be a very good offensive D. Not dominant by any stretch but very solid and a regular producer of points (potentially like Suter in that respect, just not the same degree). Letang is a Norris caliber player already when healthy with upside probably around 65 pts. So really it boils down to that. Suter is unquestionably better than Martin and unquestionably makes our D better, but so too would Parise make our D better, and a range of other areas Suter would not have much impact upon.

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06-30-2012, 02:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
I'm not sure about that. Orpik was as bad or worse than any Penguins defenseman last season. I'd rather have the best top pairing in the NHL with Suter and Letang than to make sure Niskanen looks better.

Suter on Letang's pairing allows Kris to become a legit Norris contender, in my opinion.
Listen to what you're saying...

Orpik was as bad or worse than any Penguins defenseman last season, so you want to put him with the weakest guy in the top 4?

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06-30-2012, 02:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
That's a fair comment. I guess my response would be, what are the odds that not even two of: Niskanen, Despres, Morrow, Pouliot, Harrington, Maatta end up being NHL quality D in the next 3 years, who can play well in their own end + move the puck very well and contribute offensively... say to the tune of 35 pts a year as a decent benchmark?

I think Niskanen himself could turn out to be a very good offensive D. Not dominant by any stretch but very solid and a regular producer of points (potentially like Suter in that respect, just not the same degree). Letang is a Norris caliber player already when healthy with upside probably around 65 pts. So really it boils down to that. Suter is unquestionably better than Martin and unquestionably makes our D better, but so too would Parise make our D better, and a range of other areas Suter would not have much impact upon.
Who says any of those guys have to play in the NHL in the next 2-3 years? Will they probably be ready to see time by then? Sure. They don't HAVE to be in the NHL though. None will be waiver eligible aside from Despres, and he'll undoubtedly be on the roster.

In 4-5 years I'd say is the time where we need to move all those guys on the NHL roster, but odds are by then, 1 or 2 will be traded, and there will be 4-5 spots opened.

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06-30-2012, 02:59 PM
  #81
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Orpik - Letang
Allen - Niskanen
Martin - Engelland
Strait/Bortuzzo

Trade Martin when his value spikes a bit, that way we can actually get something in return for him instead of just dumping his salary.

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06-30-2012, 03:01 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Orpik - Letang
Allen - Niskanen
Martin - Engelland
Strait/Bortuzzo

Trade Martin when his value spikes a bit, that way we can actually get something in return for him instead of just dumping his salary.
If it's true that numerous teams are interested in him, I don't think it'd be a salary dump in it's truest form. Sure, we'd get less probably, but i mean, you have to figure losing his salary to make room for better guys who fit in more is a win in of itself. Not like we gave up assets to get him either.

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06-30-2012, 03:20 PM
  #83
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I like it, wanted Nisky back.

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06-30-2012, 03:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
If it's true that numerous teams are interested in him, I don't think it'd be a salary dump in it's truest form. Sure, we'd get less probably, but i mean, you have to figure losing his salary to make room for better guys who fit in more is a win in of itself. Not like we gave up assets to get him either.
Not to mention, his value could go in the other direction if he keeps his poor play up.

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06-30-2012, 03:34 PM
  #85
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I think getting Orpik off the top pairing and having Suter/Letang play 25+ minutes/game is a win.

Orpik/Niskanen is a perfectly legit 2nd pairing. It's balanced and Nisky gets to play his natural side. Move Despres up when he's ready. I have no issue with Niskanen as a #4. Some people do.

But if things turn out better separating Suter ad Letang, then so be it. Who knows what works. I just don't see Orpik as a top pairing guy anymore.

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06-30-2012, 03:39 PM
  #86
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Great re-sign, the guy deserve it!
And now it's Suter or Martin ...

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06-30-2012, 03:41 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I just don't see Orpik as a top pairing guy anymore.
Don't forget he's got some health issues lately, I hear him say he was looking forward to have his first complete summer training in a couple of years ...

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06-30-2012, 03:44 PM
  #88
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Don't forget he's got some health issues lately, I hear him say he was looking forward to have his first complete summer training in a couple of years ...
Decision making was **** this season. Injury or not.

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06-30-2012, 03:52 PM
  #89
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love this deal. Man, what a great trade. Gogo for Nisky and Neal.

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06-30-2012, 04:24 PM
  #90
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I liked Niskanen a lot more in the top 4 than Martin or Michalek last season, his confidence has really gotten better since joining the Pens and he seems to be back on track with his development as a 1st round pick.

I still think he has a ton of room for improvement and could still surprise us this up coming season.

As for Martin, I think he has value and teams will wait to see what happens with Suter.

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06-30-2012, 04:30 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Listen to what you're saying...

Orpik was as bad or worse than any Penguins defenseman last season, so you want to put him with the weakest guy in the top 4?
If we sign Suter, he's playing on the top pairing with Letang. I don't see any situation where Suter is put with Niskanen just to insulate Niskanen's play. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. I'd ideally have Suter-Letang, Orpik-Despres, Niskanen-Engelland.

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06-30-2012, 04:44 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I'm kind of conflicted, I think our current projected blue line is small and a little on the soft side, but I feel like a Suter signing is just going to clog the pipeline and force us to trade or potentially waive some pretty damn good d-men in the near future. When you're forced to trade assets you'll never get top value for them.

I feel like Niskanen can do anything Martin can, and for half the price, so I'd like to see Martin dealt and then maybe a big crease-clearer like Bryan Allen brought in on a 2-3ish year deal. That way, as the Nisky/Engelland/Brooks deals begin to expire we can start plugging in guys like Harrington, Morrow, Dumoulin, etc.
I'm with you on all this. Not that I'd mind Suter, but I'd rather not. Would rather bring in Allen at half the price.

Also wouldn't mind brining in a guy like Salvador for the 3rd pairing if we get rid of Martin. Although, I'm sure he'll be looking for a decent amount since he had a good run.

Letang-Orpik
Allen-Nisky
Salvador-Engo/Despres/Bortuzzo

I think adding that toughness and defensive depth and still having Letang/Nisky/Despres to move the puck makes our D much better than last year. Sign Allen for 3/4 years and Salvador for 1/2. Get Despres and Bortuzzo as much work this year as you can.

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06-30-2012, 04:57 PM
  #93
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People are seriously underrating Suter here. He is legitimately one of the top defensemen in the league and is often simply overshadowed by Weber. Weber has the cannon shot and the physicality, but I bet if you ask the Nashville fans who the better defender is, probably half or more would say that it's Suter.

Suter is a legitimate #1 defensman in his own right and is one of the most complete defenders in the league. He just doesn't have the physical dominance of Chara or Weber. If Detroit lands him, people will be amazed at how little drop off, if any, there is from Lidstrom.

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06-30-2012, 05:01 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BumFortyOne View Post
People are seriously underrating Suter here. He is legitimately one of the top defensemen in the league and is often simply overshadowed by Weber. Weber has the cannon shot and the physicality, but I bet if you ask the Nashville fans who the better defender is, probably half or more would say that it's Suter.

Suter is a legitimate #1 defensman in his own right and is one of the most complete defenders in the league. He just doesn't have the physical dominance of Chara or Weber. If Detroit lands him, people will be amazed at how little drop off, if any, there is from Lidstrom.
I know Suter is a great d-man and we'd be better with him, but I'd personally rather bring in one/two physical defensive d-men and sign Parise.

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06-30-2012, 05:06 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by PensFan68 View Post
I know Suter is a great d-man and we'd be better with him, but I'd personally rather bring in one/two physical defensive d-men and sign Parise.
I do agree that long term Parise is the greater need given the current depth in defensive prospects.

But if Suter goes somewhere else, I would rather stand pat than overpay for an okay defensman like Allen who doesn't fit Bylsma's system at all.

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06-30-2012, 05:07 PM
  #96
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Part of the problem I have with Suter is that we already have two number one centers signed long term. Can we afford two #1 D-men in two years to go along with them? Short term, Suter would be great. But I think Parise definitely fills the greater long-term need.

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06-30-2012, 05:08 PM
  #97
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Love the Niskanen deal. He earned it and fits well with the system.

As for Suter/Letang proposed pairing? Suter earned his contract off of being the offensive puck mover he is, but he only was able to because of being paired with a stay at home guy. Putting Letang/Suter together would mean that you pay millions for one of them to not do what they're best at.

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06-30-2012, 05:09 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by BumFortyOne View Post
I do agree that long term Parise is the greater need given the current depth in defensive prospects.

But if Suter goes somewhere else, I would rather stand pat than overpay for an okay defensman like Allen who doesn't fit Bylsma's system at all.
I agree he doesn't at all. Hoping DB realizes you need at least one (if not 2) stay at home (physical a plus) d-men to get through the playoffs.

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06-30-2012, 05:11 PM
  #99
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i like it, just need to move martin

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06-30-2012, 05:16 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by KHstrike View Post
Love the Niskanen deal. He earned it and fits well with the system.

As for Suter/Letang proposed pairing? Suter earned his contract off of being the offensive puck mover he is, but he only was able to because of being paired with a stay at home guy. Putting Letang/Suter together would mean that you pay millions for one of them to not do what they're best at.
That is just simply not true. If anything, Suter is the stay at home guy on his pairing with Weber. He is not simply an "offensive defenseman" or a "puck mover". Suter is an elite all around defenseman and he would allow Letang to seriously contend for the Norris trophy with the stability he brings in the backend.

I agree that I would rather have Parise for the long haul but Suter is much better than most people are giving him credit for.

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