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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part IX)

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08-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #626
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That's understandable. I am also quite interested to see if Wheeler can have another solid year but from start to finish. I just often wonder seeing as management had no issues in locking up Pavelec and Enstrom, both who we aren't 100% certain about headed forward. Enstrom to a lesser extent of course, seeing how he has played in years prior, but Pavelec is a fair gamble given he has yet to put it all together and we really don't know if he will.

I really don't see why Wheeler couldn't or won't continue on the way he was last season. He's just so determined, focused and he's got enough of the tools that I feel from here on out we'll get a 60+ point Blake Wheeler in a top 6 forwards role. I think he figured a lot of things out last season about himself as a hockey player and what he needs to do in order to have that sort of success. It was his first year as a "go-to guy" and that is a big task and adjustment. No more sheltered minutes, you're playing against the best of the best and they're looking to shut you down. A part of me thinks we could get Wheeler signed long-term for about 5-5.5 million, but if he puts up 70 points this season, I think he could easily demand 6-6.5 million.

We'll see, just mind wondering on my part.
It's a gamble either way with Wheeler. Yod he plays really well he shoukd command more money but if he plays to his paycheck or more I have no problems paying him 6-6.5. I do have a problem seeing him make Tavares type money when he could just fall flat. It's not I think he will, in fact I doubt it, but if he does **** the beds your ****ing stuck with him.

See also: Leino

Unless you find a GM dumb enough to trade for him.

See Also: Scott Gomez

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08-08-2012, 01:28 PM
  #627
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It's a gamble either way with Wheeler. Yod he plays really well he shoukd command more money but if he plays to his paycheck or more I have no problems paying him 6-6.5. I do have a problem seeing him make Tavares type money when he could just fall flat. It's not I think he will, in fact I doubt it, but if he does **** the beds your ****ing stuck with him.

See also: Leino

Unless you find a GM dumb enough to trade for him.

See Also: Scott Gomez
I know it's impossible to predict these things, but I really don't think there will be a regression in Wheelers game. I remember an interview with him last year where he was talking about his lack of confidence in the league and how it really affected him in the past, but how a light kind of came on for him last year and he got it. You could see even when he wasn't producing, he was still generating offense, and that is a very good sign.

I bet he has a career year this year. I would get him locked up asap.

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08-08-2012, 01:36 PM
  #628
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I know it's impossible to predict these things, but I really don't think there will be a regression in Wheelers game. I remember an interview with him last year where he was talking about his lack of confidence in the league and how it really affected him in the past, but how a light kind of came on for him last year and he got it. You could see even when he wasn't producing, he was still generating offense, and that is a very good sign.

I bet he has a career year this year. I would get him locked up asap.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be at all upset if they locked him up long term. There's a good reason that these guys work in the NHL and I post on an online forum. If he's resigned now its because they're 90% sure he'll get even better.

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08-08-2012, 08:53 PM
  #629
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Does anyone know Eric Fehr's status? I know he is an UFA. Will he be at camp? On twitter he still describes himself as a Winnipeg Jet. If his shoulder is now fully healed does he have any chance of making the team? Thx

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08-08-2012, 10:04 PM
  #630
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Does anyone know Eric Fehr's status? I know he is an UFA. Will he be at camp? On twitter he still describes himself as a Winnipeg Jet. If his shoulder is now fully healed does he have any chance of making the team? Thx
That is a very good question. I know a lot of guys on here have said good riddance to Eric, but I still believe he will come to camp and try to play himself a contract, and I believe he will. He has ability and size, and if his major shoulder problems are fixed he can be a contributor on this team.

IMO he was really starting to put it together before he hurt himself last year late.

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08-08-2012, 11:26 PM
  #631
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That is a very good question. I know a lot of guys on here have said good riddance to Eric, but I still believe he will come to camp and try to play himself a contract, and I believe he will. He has ability and size, and if his major shoulder problems are fixed he can be a contributor on this team.

IMO he was really starting to put it together before he hurt himself last year late.
IMO, he was putting pressure on the net for most of the time but 1) had bad puck luck (early in the year Wheeler style) and 2) Noel didn't like using him...

His shooting rates were very similar to all his years in Washington, but he had way less "offensive time" (PP and such). Not really top 6 but could of been a decent 3rd liner on a top9 team... unfortunately I don't think I see him surpassing Wellwood, Miettenin, Antropov, Burmistrov, and Ponikarovsky for the bottom rung of the top 9 and he'd have to beat 2 of them.


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08-09-2012, 12:22 AM
  #632
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[mod] Duchene had an off year due to injuries, but all that aside, he's thought to be the complete package as far as jockey players go.

Why on earth would any GM trade a complete player for a guy that is apparently completely unspectacular except for his speed. Makes no sense.

Heres how I see it, the trade itself may be fair value but it is at best a lateral move, in fact we definitely lose that one as we now have two top six Centres that annually hover around 60pts. Duchene is not enough of a upgrade on either of those players to justify trading our most prolific goal scorer.

It's not that I'm not open to trading him, because I am to benefit the team. Itd have to be a great return eg) Kane+ for Toews/Kopitar/benn+ etc.)

That's the only kind of deals that make any sense for this team.
Are you suggesting that Duchene is more of a one trick pony than Kane is? I would disagree strongly. Kanes game is remarkably predictable. Take the puck up along the boards and over- estimate his
speed thinking he can blow by. But then, hardly ever do. He also has no vision for playmaking. Not smart with the puck at all unless he's shooting. Not deking, shooting. He's no dangled either. He has speed, but only in str8 lines. He does have speed, a very good wrist shot, and is more physically aggressive than Duchene. Now, outside of the physical aspect and perhaps a slightly better wrist shot (only) , Duchene has Kane beat in every aspect of the game. And yes, that likely includes speed as well.

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08-09-2012, 09:16 AM
  #633
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Are you suggesting that Duchene is more of a one trick pony than Kane is? I would disagree strongly. Kanes game is remarkably predictable. Take the puck up along the boards and over- estimate his
speed thinking he can blow by. But then, hardly ever do. He also has no vision for playmaking. Not smart with the puck at all unless he's shooting. Not deking, shooting. He's no dangled either. He has speed, but only in str8 lines. He does have speed, a very good wrist shot, and is more physically aggressive than Duchene. Now, outside of the physical aspect and perhaps a slightly better wrist shot (only) , Duchene has Kane beat in every aspect of the game. And yes, that likely includes speed as well.
No you misread. He was insinuating if duchesne is that much more complete then kane, why on earth would their gm trade him for kane?

The biggest flaw with the preposal is that it would mean ladd is our unequivicol first line leftwing and then our second line left wing is.... ponikarovsky? Im sorry bit we finally have the depth to have everyone play where they should, lets not eff it up now.

Also for those ragging on kane for his lack of playmaking, ask kyle wellwood how many goals he scored off kanes rebounds. If your teammates in front of the net or in rifht position, a bad shot is better theb a fanxy but low percentage pass.

In short, he got thirty goals and over 20 assists. Who cares how he got them, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

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08-09-2012, 11:00 AM
  #634
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No you misread. He was insinuating if duchesne is that much more complete then kane, why on earth would their gm trade him for kane?

The biggest flaw with the preposal is that it would mean ladd is our unequivicol first line leftwing and then our second line left wing is.... ponikarovsky? Im sorry bit we finally have the depth to have everyone play where they should, lets not eff it up now.

Also for those ragging on kane for his lack of playmaking, ask kyle wellwood how many goals he scored off kanes rebounds. If your teammates in front of the net or in rifht position, a bad shot is better theb a fanxy but low percentage pass.

In short, he got thirty goals and over 20 assists. Who cares how he got them, if it aint broke, don't fix it.
Exactly. People don't realize that Kane plays the game he does because that is his ROLE. He's supposed to take lots of shots (and doesn't take much more than Ladd). He's supposed to not be a huge playmaker (but makes more primary assists than Ladd).

For the time on ice he was on he was 5th in the league for LW's with scoring goals. The kid is effective. Every player he plays on gains more points with him on the ice than with out.

Besides this whole argument is completely ridiculous.
Kane will most likely be here for at least the duration of his RFA status.
Duchene will most likely stay in the Avs for a long while since they are in the process of a rebuild.
And we have no idea of dumb hypotheticals like which one would stay a Jet longer.

Sumarry: Don't undervalue Kane and neither player will be leaving their city for a long while.

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08-09-2012, 11:31 AM
  #635
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Are you suggesting that Duchene is more of a one trick pony than Kane is? I would disagree strongly. Kanes game is remarkably predictable. Take the puck up along the boards and over- estimate his
speed thinking he can blow by. But then, hardly ever do. He also has no vision for playmaking. Not smart with the puck at all unless he's shooting. Not deking, shooting. He's no dangled either. He has speed, but only in str8 lines. He does have speed, a very good wrist shot, and is more physically aggressive than Duchene. Now, outside of the physical aspect and perhaps a slightly better wrist shot (only) , Duchene has Kane beat in every aspect of the game. And yes, that likely includes speed as well.
Sorry. Perhaps I did misread it. I guess I got confused when you said that no GM in their right mind would trade a complete player for Kane, because he is unimpressive in every way except for his speed. Then proceed to say we'll only trade him for Toews, Kopitar, Benn. ?????????

Anyone else see why I was confused/still am confused?

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08-09-2012, 11:42 AM
  #636
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Sorry. Perhaps I did misread it. I guess I got confused when you said that no GM in their right mind would trade a complete player for Kane, because he is unimpressive in every way except for his speed. Then proceed to say we'll only trade him for Toews, Kopitar, Benn. ?????????

Anyone else see why I was confused/still am confused?
My point is that I would trade and mangle our depth at LW only if it was for a huge upgrade at another position. Duchene is not a huge upgrade over Joki and Little. At least not enough to trade our most prolific goal scorer for anyways.


And I was being sarcastic about how Kane was one dimensional. He has a job, and he does it well.

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08-09-2012, 11:51 AM
  #637
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Exactly. People don't realize that Kane plays the game he does because that is his ROLE. He's supposed to take lots of shots (and doesn't take much more than Ladd). He's supposed to not be a huge playmaker (but makes more primary assists than Ladd).

For the time on ice he was on he was 5th in the league for LW's with scoring goals. The kid is effective. Every player he plays on gains more points with him on the ice than with out.

Besides this whole argument is completely ridiculous.
Kane will most likely be here for at least the duration of his RFA status.
Duchene will most likely stay in the Avs for a long while since they are in the process of a rebuild.
And we have no idea of dumb hypotheticals like which one would stay a Jet longer.

Sumarry: Don't undervalue Kane and neither player will be leaving their city for a long while.
Despite what I made it seem, I happen to deem Kane as my favorite Jet. I do like him a lot, and see that he is dripping with potential. However, I personally believe his hockey IQ isn't good enough for a "sky's the limit" upside. That combined with the rumours of him wanting out of Winnipeg leads me to Think that trading him now while the NHL world thinks he is the next messiah, would be in our best interest. We may be able to squeeze 3 or 4 more years out of him the trade him before he becomes a ufa, but I think his value will drop by then. Cause the world will then know that he will never reach the potential he was once deemed to possess.

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08-09-2012, 11:57 AM
  #638
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My point is that I would trade and mangle our depth at LW only if it was for a huge upgrade at another position. Duchene is not a huge upgrade over Joki and Little. At least not enough to trade our most prolific goal scorer for anyways.


And I was being sarcastic about how Kane was one dimensional. He has a job, and he does it well.
You appeared to be more knowledged before admitting that u were being sarcastic. Kane, although good at what he does, is about as one dimensional as they come.

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08-09-2012, 12:17 PM
  #639
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You appeared to be more knowledged before admitting that u were being sarcastic. Kane, although good at what he does, is about as one dimensional as they come.
He shoots and hits, that's at least two dimensions.


All kidding aside, if the people i have him playing with are Kyle Pass-it-on-a-breakaway Wellwood and Ballarina Burmistrove(not a dis, the guy can dance) your damn rights i want him shooting the puck every chance he gets.

That being said, yes Duchesne is a much more even keeled player.
The problem is as stated, he's no where near the step up on
little,joki or (hypothetically based on current projections) Scheifele long-term, that the step down would be From Kane to ponikarovsky(short-term) or....klingberg? long term.

Finally, a lot of folks are getting REALLY tired of the "kane doesn't want to be here" nonsense that gets repeated ad-nauseum even though there's been little actual evidence of it, beyond internet cycled rumors.

Even in the purely hypothetical situation that he DID want out of Winnipeg, looking at our depth it would be in our best interest to move him for just about anything BUT a center, as LW would immediately become our weakest position both Currently and Longterm, and we'd end up int he exact same position Colorado is in now.

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08-09-2012, 12:42 PM
  #640
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He shoots and hits, that's at least two dimensions.


All kidding aside, if the people i have him playing with are Kyle Pass-it-on-a-breakaway Wellwood and Ballarina Burmistrove(not a dis, the guy can dance) your damn rights i want him shooting the puck every chance he gets.

That being said, yes Duchesne is a much more even keeled player.
The problem is as stated, he's no where near the step up on
little,joki or (hypothetically based on current projections) Scheifele long-term, that the step down would be From Kane to ponikarovsky(short-term) or....klingberg? long term.

Finally, a lot of folks are getting REALLY tired of the "kane doesn't want to be here" nonsense that gets repeated ad-nauseum even though there's been little actual evidence of it, beyond internet cycled rumors.

Even in the purely hypothetical situation that he DID want out of Winnipeg, looking at our depth it
would be in our best interest to move him for just about anything BUT a center, as LW would
immediately become our weakest position both Currently and Longterm, and we'd end up int he exact
same position Colorado is in now.
I see what you mean about leaving a hole on the left wing. Agreed. I just think that jets fans are in denial about Kane wanting to be here in Winnipeg. Just because kanes agent dismissed the rumors that Kane is unhappy here, doesn't mean it's so. Heck, it's an agents job to say those things. I think deep down we all know Kane won't be a jet forever. And I'm just saying that if we're going to lose him soon anyway, I'd like to see him traded for one player of equal/higher value. A young highly touted player just like Kane is. I'm not suggesting Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos here. I'm suggesting a young center/winger in Duchene that doesn't seem to be fitting in with his current team as it stands. This Duchene possibility may only have a small window of opportunity. And that opportunity is right now. I'm guessing Duchene lights it up this year and has his "trade window" evaporate and his price tag skyrocket. If I was only in to talking stupid/unrealistic trades, I sure as heck wouldn't give up Kane. And I'd go after someone way better/proven than Duchene.

How bout this;

Byfuglien+3rd for Stamkos +1st.

Maybe we should call Stevie Y about that one? See what he thinks.

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08-09-2012, 12:48 PM
  #641
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Daddy: I think if you call Stevie about that, I don't think you finish your sentence before he hangs up, to be honest.

In my opinion, scoring isn't the issue on this team - Stamkos is great, and would love to have him, but I'm not sure he puts the Jets over the top to become a SCF contender. Our defensive play and goaltending needs to tighten up even further than it did last year.

Regarding Kane: you're welcome to your opinion, but on the flipside, I personally think he will be a Jet for a long period of time. He's got 4 months to travel and party between seasons - it's not like many of the players stick aroud during the off-season anyway, and if he's offered a strong contract, and the ability to be one of the real difference makers on a team that is looking to win a SC in the next 2-4 years, wouldn't you take that into consideration over whether or not the city itself is the best fit for your personality? The dude likes to win - if he can do that in Winnipeg, then he'll sign long term, IMHO.

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08-09-2012, 12:49 PM
  #642
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I see what you mean about leaving a hole on the left wing. Agreed. I just think that jets fans are in denial about Kane wanting to be here in Winnipeg. Just because kanes agent dismissed the rumors that Kane is unhappy here, doesn't mean it's so. Heck, it's an agents job to say those things. I think deep down we all know Kane won't be a jet forever. And I'm just saying that if we're going to lose him soon anyway, I'd like to see him traded for one player of equal/higher value. A young highly touted player just like Kane is. I'm not suggesting Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos here. I'm suggesting a young center/winger in Duchene that doesn't seem to be fitting in with his current team as it stands. This Duchene possibility may only have a small window of opportunity. And that opportunity is right now. I'm guessing Duchene lights it up this year and has his "trade window" evaporate and his price tag skyrocket. If I was only in to talking stupid/unrealistic trades, I sure as heck wouldn't give up Kane. And I'd go after someone way better/proven than Duchene.

How bout this;

Byfuglien+3rd for Stamkos +1st.

Maybe we should call Stevie Y about that one? See what he thinks.
Your still not getting it. Duchy is a centre. A position that we have lots of depth in currently. Why guy the team for a small upgrade at Centre. You only trade away what could be a future 50g guy for a huge upgrade on that position. The tier above Duchene. The Toews, Benns and kopitars.

And if he didn't want to play here, they wouldn't be trying to sign a six year deal right now. He's not going anywhere for at least four years whether we deluding ourselves or not.

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08-09-2012, 12:58 PM
  #643
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Daddy: I think if you call Stevie about that, I don't think you finish your sentence before he hangs up, to be honest.

In my opinion, scoring isn't the issue on this team - Stamkos is great, and would love to have him, but I'm not sure he puts the Jets over the top to become a SCF contender. Our defensive play and goaltending needs to tighten up even further than it did last year.

Regarding Kane: you're welcome to your opinion, but on the flipside, I personally think he will be a Jet for a long period of time. He's got 4 months to travel and party between seasons - it's not like many of the players stick aroud during the off-season anyway, and if he's offered a strong contract, and the ability to be one of the real difference makers on a team that is looking to win a SC in the next 2-4 years, wouldn't you take that into consideration over whether or not the city itself is the best fit for your personality? The dude likes to win - if he can do that in Winnipeg, then he'll sign long term, IMHO.
I didn't think I'd have to point this out, but my Stamkos trade proposal was dripping with sarcasm.

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08-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #644
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I didn't think I'd have to point this out, but my Stamkos trade proposal was dripping with sarcasm.
Considering you are new, use of the sarcasm emoticon might be helpful.

There are people of all different opinions and depth of hockey knowledge here. Some may consider that proposal to be legit.

Just sayin'

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08-09-2012, 01:13 PM
  #645
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I didn't think I'd have to point this out, but my Stamkos trade proposal was dripping with sarcasm.
Then why did you say it?

I used my sarcasm to put how ridiculous it was to say that Kane is one dimensional so let's trade him to Colorado for a player that is way more rounded and valuable.

And as pointed out...he's not one dimensional. And yet you have the nerve to tell me that I'm an uneducated hockey fan.

Kane is fast, he's physical, he can score goals, he can bury rebounds he has good hands, he's pretty good defensively and positionaly. That's more then one dimension.

Even still it makes no sense to trade our top scorer for a kid, whole talented, may not bounce back from his injuries. I can also tell you that if Colorado was going to trade Duchene they'd need a centre back.

But go ask Avs fans what they think. See where it gets ya.

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08-09-2012, 01:14 PM
  #646
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I didn't think I'd have to point this out, but my Stamkos trade proposal was dripping with sarcasm.
Apologies - as you're a relatively new poster, my sarcasm meter for you isn't calibrated.

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08-09-2012, 01:17 PM
  #647
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Your still not getting it. Duchy is a centre. A position that we have lots of depth in currently. Why guy the team for a small upgrade at Centre. You only trade away what could be a future 50g guy for a huge upgrade on that position. The tier above Duchene. The Toews, Benns and kopitars.

And if he didn't want to play here, they wouldn't be trying to sign a six year deal right now. He's not going anywhere for at least four years whether we deluding ourselves or not.
I'm thinking long term here. I keep hearing how we have so much depth at center. First off, I don't believe we currently have a bonafide #1 center. Duchene would be that guy for us. Secondly, jokinen, antropov, wellwood will likely not be here in 2-3 years. Therefore we are crossing our fingers that burmistrov and scheifele will mature into grade "a" centers. That'll be all we really have for top tier centers. Personally I think Burmi has a chance at getting there, but scheifele, no. His skating is to weak. Very slow. And that's the hardest tangible attribute for a player to improve on. I'd trade him now also while his value is at it's peak.

It's not a matter of what we need positionally right now, but rather getting great value for one of our best players (cause I believe Kane won't be here long anyway). Once we hit the point where Kane asks for a trade, teams will play hardball and won't give max value for him.

Finally, if you think the jets are 2-4 years away from a stanly cup, remind me to never trust your "knowledgable" opinions again.

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08-09-2012, 01:19 PM
  #648
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08-09-2012, 01:32 PM
  #649
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Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
(..)
Finally, if you think the jets are 2-4 years away from a stanly cup, remind me to never trust your "knowledgable" opinions again.
Excellent ad hominem.

I think the core is there, and I believe, based on TNSE's track record, that they can pull it off. When you combine the season ticket renewals that will be coming up in that time period, the maturation of the core assets, and TNSE's statement that they will spend when appropriate, then yes, I do believe a Stanley Cup is possible with a reworked configuration of this team in that time frame.

That said, you are also welcome to your own opinion - I won't denigrate you for it.

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Old
08-09-2012, 01:33 PM
  #650
sully1410
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Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
I'm thinking long term here. I keep hearing how we have so much depth at center. First off, I don't believe we currently have a bonafide #1 center. Duchene would be that guy for us. Secondly, jokinen, antropov, wellwood will likely not be here in 2-3 years. Therefore we are crossing our fingers that burmistrov and scheifele will mature into grade "a" centers. That'll be all we really have for top tier centers. Personally I think Burmi has a chance at getting there, but scheifele, no. His skating is to weak. Very slow. And that's the hardest tangible attribute for a player to improve on. I'd trade him now also while his value is at it's peak.

It's not a matter of what we need positionally right now, but rather getting great value for one of our best players (cause I believe Kane won't be here long anyway). Once we hit the point where Kane asks for a trade, teams will play hardball and won't give max value for him.

Finally, if you think the jets are 2-4 years away from a stanly cup, remind me to never trust your "knowledgable" opinions again.
4 or 5 to be serious contenders, sure. And don't get me wrong, it's not that I'm not interested in Duchene. I am and I would definitely actively make an offer if I was GM. Giving up our leading goal scorer would make that kind of trade a wash, at best. As for Schief, I can think of a few #1 Cs that aren't great skaters. H. Sedin for one.

They clearly would t have drafted him if they didn't think he was going to hit that ceiling of being a number one guy. He got sent down last season because he lacked the physical strength to play on the NHL and by all accounts he has beefed up and improved his skating, granted he's not like Phil kessel or anything.

I'm sorry, but I firmly believe it to be a bad idea to destroy your depth at one position to add a little bit more at another. You always deal from a position of strength. Always.

LW is an area where we have sufficient depth, but to lose one permanently would destroy it, especially the best one in Kane. Makes no sense. Especially since Kane can be a building block for our offense going forward.

And from a Colorado perspective, we'd have to add. Which makes me even less interested in doing this.

I'd trade Burmi+ or Little+ but Kane makes no sense for either team. And even at that, they'd probably want both players for Duchy and Burmi has a very high ceiling.

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