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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part IX)

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11-30-2012, 07:52 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I've been doing alot of thinking lately, and I keep thinking that its more and more likely that Winnipeg is one of the teams that has shown interest in Luongo.
Maybe he's called, but even that would surprise me, to be honest. No doubt TNSE was livid about the Pavs DUI situation, but short of a felony I don't see them cutting ties with someone based on a single off-ice incident like that.

Even still, if that's the route they took, I would see them moving some pieces to target a rising younger goalie, not one in the last half of his career on that kind of contract. It wouldn't make any sense with what else the Jets have or the other moves this franchise has made.

Besides, there's zero doubt in my mind that Lu would not waive to come here, so meh.

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11-30-2012, 08:15 PM
  #927
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Luongo. Do Not Want. I feel he would be worse than Pavs with our defense as I remember it.

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11-30-2012, 08:24 PM
  #928
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Maybe he's called, but even that would surprise me, to be honest. No doubt TNSE was livid about the Pavs DUI situation, but short of a felony I don't see them cutting ties with someone based on a single off-ice incident like that.

Even still, if that's the route they took, I would see them moving some pieces to target a rising younger goalie, not one in the last half of his career on that kind of contract. It wouldn't make any sense with what else the Jets have or the other moves this franchise has made.

Besides, there's zero doubt in my mind that Lu would not waive to come here, so meh.
I would be livid if Chevy has NOT called. When a top end player, regardless of any other considerations, becomes available to acquire, particularly in the off-season, you do your homework and talk to the GM to find out what they are looking for in return. That is Chevy's freaking job. What if he could be acquired stupid cheap since Gillis was in love with some random WPG player/prospect, or the other GM's fell on their face and did not call. Calling hurts nothing (special exception for TD, when time is limited and you are either buying or selling).

Luongo, like him or hate him, is a top top end goalie in the league. Top 5 for sure, he is a talent and with Luongo in net we make playoffs last year, no questions asked, IMO. I really really doubt Pavelec will ever approach Luongo's level, and Luongo's contract is really not that bad of a contract, especially in light of the new clause the owner's are proposing to bring in with the new CBA regarding the existing long term contracts.

Now this is all moot, since like you said it is unlikely Luongo waives for WPG and it is unlikely that he would be available cheap enough to make this deal worth it. But if Chevy is not doing his homework and doing everything he can, uncovering every rock, to make this team better now and in the future, we need a new GM.

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11-30-2012, 09:27 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I would be livid if Chevy has NOT called. When a top end player, regardless of any other considerations, becomes available to acquire, particularly in the off-season, you do your homework and talk to the GM to find out what they are looking for in return. That is Chevy's freaking job. What if he could be acquired stupid cheap since Gillis was in love with some random WPG player/prospect, or the other GM's fell on their face and did not call. Calling hurts nothing (special exception for TD, when time is limited and you are either buying or selling).

Luongo, like him or hate him, is a top top end goalie in the league. Top 5 for sure, he is a talent and with Luongo in net we make playoffs last year, no questions asked, IMO. I really really doubt Pavelec will ever approach Luongo's level, and Luongo's contract is really not that bad of a contract, especially in light of the new clause the owner's are proposing to bring in with the new CBA regarding the existing long term contracts.

Now this is all moot, since like you said it is unlikely Luongo waives for WPG and it is unlikely that he would be available cheap enough to make this deal worth it. But if Chevy is not doing his homework and doing everything he can, uncovering every rock, to make this team better now and in the future, we need a new GM.
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Originally Posted by buyinnow View Post
Actually Holden is right.
Pavelec was one of the worst starters in the league last year.
Luongo was slightly above average. (with only 1 shot per a game less than Pavelec)

I have crunched the numbers...
With a 0.915 Jets would of made the playoffs... Luongo was a 0.919 and likely wouldn't have been that different with an extra shot a game I'd doubt it be much different.


Do people forget how close we were? How many teams just barely ahead of us we had terrible losses against (Ottawa).


Edit: I like to add I'd doubt the price for getting Luongo, the pieces we have to trade, and his age/contract work well with us.


Last edited by garret9: 11-30-2012 at 09:38 PM.
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11-30-2012, 09:34 PM
  #930
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(...)

Do people forget how close we were? How many teams just barely ahead of us we had terrible losses against (Ottawa).
There were many squeekers during that playoff push that, had they gone the other way, would have put the Jets into the playoffs. I agree with both of you that someone like Luongo could have made the difference.

Not a huge Luongo fan - just talking about the diff an extra save or two here or there.

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11-30-2012, 10:03 PM
  #931
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you may or may not have guessed it, but i happen to be a pretty big luongo fan. Canucks have become my number two team, after the jets of course. I do understand that not alot of people think very highly of Roberto, but hes a friggen class act. Definitely has the right character for the team. Last I checked hes pretty decent too, it seems like everyone in the world is blaming the Canucks final loss on him, when really the entire team didnt show up that night not just Lu.

I'm personally of the belief that we were just so close last year,and I give full kudos to the coaching staff and players for keeping it as tight as they did. Same to to the management staff for recognizing the weaknesses the team had and surprising us all by being aggressive in free agency, they even made an offer to Parise, and I didnt think they would do that just yet..I think there comes a point in time where you just have to go for it, and I think that if there was a legit chance to get Luongo, you have to take it.

Pavs is a fine goaltender IMO, but he lacks the ability that Luongo has to carry an entire team on his back, like he has Vancouver in previous years.

i'm not saying that you need to mortgage the future for him, but if Gillis is looking for something decent that we can part with without gutting the team...you absolutely have to take it. Granted that probably isnt the case. If it was, Luongo would be in florida or toronto or chicago by now.
There was never a formal list submitted, so this is how the scenario works out in my head. Gillis gets all the offers he thinks are fair, and he brings them to Lu. Lu looks at the teams with his agents and then proceeds to do bhis research on said teams. That will be the surrounding area, how the management treats their players, the direction on the team. Vancouver may even let Luongo speak to the other teams first. As he has said many times, he will do what is best for the team. that doesnt mean allowing a trade to Columbus or some other bottom feeding team, but it probably does mean that hes not going to go out of his way to limit his GM in making a deal.

I think he could do quite well here, and i think the Jets and Luongo would be a great match.

that being said, you cant gut the team to get him. Id be comfortable with something around Bryan Little, as he is our most expendable forward and our most valuable trade chip going forward. I wouldnt be surprised to see a package around him at a deadline for a bigger player in that role regardless.

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11-30-2012, 10:26 PM
  #932
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Actually Holden is right.
Pavelec was one of the worst starters in the league last year.
Luongo was slightly above average. (with only 1 shot per a game less than Pavelec)

I have crunched the numbers...
With a 0.915 Jets would of made the playoffs... Luongo was a 0.919 and likely wouldn't have been that different with an extra shot a game I'd doubt it be much different.


Do people forget how close we were? How many teams just barely ahead of us we had terrible losses against (Ottawa).


Edit: I like to add I'd doubt the price for getting Luongo, the pieces we have to trade, and his age/contract work well with us.
That was my point exactly as well.

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11-30-2012, 10:27 PM
  #933
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These posts are playing into my biggest fear if we get a season (and that is starting to be a huge if). I am really concerned Pavs could take a step backwards and I hope I'm wrong. I was feeling that way before his challenges in europe it's just a vibe I am getting that he isn't committed to do what it takes to get to the next level. Also we had challenges getting a good back up goalie secured...then the DUI, it just feels like a cloud is hanging over our organization in this area of the team. I really like Pavs and I like his in game calmness but I remember Boulton calling him out for his work ethic on "off the record" and the reporters that follow the team saying he doesn't work very hard in practice. He has a rep even though I think he is popular with his teammates. TNSE signed him to a pretty fat deal (overpaid) for his results to date and commitment level so I hope they no what they are doing on this one.

Ok if anyone wants to flame me for trolling Pavs I will take the beating and this is the one area more than any other I hope I'm wrong on.

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11-30-2012, 10:36 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I would be livid if Chevy has NOT called. When a top end player, regardless of any other considerations, becomes available to acquire, particularly in the off-season, you do your homework and talk to the GM to find out what they are looking for in return. That is Chevy's freaking job. What if he could be acquired stupid cheap since Gillis was in love with some random WPG player/prospect, or the other GM's fell on their face and did not call. Calling hurts nothing (special exception for TD, when time is limited and you are either buying or selling).
.
I'm a huge fan of Luongo, don't get me wrong. That said, what we generally heard is that there wasn't a ton of interest out there for Luongo, based on factors unrelated to his talent. Not every top-end player is a responsible move for every team. Sure, wouldn't surprise me if Chevy inquired, but I would be surprised if it went any further than a curiosity call.

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12-01-2012, 12:12 AM
  #935
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Don't care what Luongo has done to date. He has been successful, yes, but I would never take him. Not because he can't win, he definitely can, he simply doesn't fit the idea of what Chevy and crew are trying to do; build through the draft and create character from the bottom up.

To jump up and say it would be silly if Chevy never made a call to Gillis doesn't make sense with what the organization has been preaching.

Pavs has talent and the products being brought up will make us a contender. If I were to objectify the moves and draft picks made since Chevy took office, I would say he was selected for the right reason and they are smart picks. We are on the right road and to knee jerk on a commitment to Luongo, both professionally and from a fan base stand point (premature expectations), would be counterproductive.

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12-01-2012, 12:16 AM
  #936
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These posts are playing into my biggest fear if we get a season (and that is starting to be a huge if). I am really concerned Pavs could take a step backwards and I hope I'm wrong. I was feeling that way before his challenges in europe it's just a vibe I am getting that he isn't committed to do what it takes to get to the next level. Also we had challenges getting a good back up goalie secured...then the DUI, it just feels like a cloud is hanging over our organization in this area of the team. I really like Pavs and I like his in game calmness but I remember Boulton calling him out for his work ethic on "off the record" and the reporters that follow the team saying he doesn't work very hard in practice. He has a rep even though I think he is popular with his teammates. TNSE signed him to a pretty fat deal (overpaid) for his results to date and commitment level so I hope they no what they are doing on this one.

Ok if anyone wants to flame me for trolling Pavs I will take the beating and this is the one area more than any other I hope I'm wrong on.
I absolutely agree. I really didn't think much of his struggles overseas to be honest, but they are rather concerning when you actually think about. I love the fact that the guy practically stood on his head for alot of games, but it didn't seem to get us far. He won us a lot of games, but there were quite a few where he let in a few soft goals, and cost us the game.

The other thing is, who else is available? no one, outside of Luongo and Bernier that i would be interesting in trading for, and even at that Bernier is not a proven starter either. Its a roll of the dice that possibly ends with us in the same friggen boat.

Goalie and RW are my two biggest question marks going forward at this point, which is sad because at the end of the season i totally felt confident with having Pavs between the pipes. Not so much anymore lol.

I guess there comes a point in time where you have decide whether its time to compete or time to rebuild. With the signings of Ponikarovsky and Jokinen, it tells me that the GM believes that this franchise is ready to compete. You don't sign the best centre available in Free Agency or a big bodied third liner.

maybe its time to find a better option for goalie.

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12-01-2012, 12:32 AM
  #937
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Don't care what Luongo has done to date. He has been successful, yes, but I would never take him. Not because he can't win, he definitely can, he simply doesn't fit the idea of what Chevy and crew are trying to do; build through the draft and create character from the bottom up.

To jump up and say it would be silly if Chevy never made a call to Gillis doesn't make sense with what the organization has been preaching.

Pavs has talent and the products being brought up will make us a contender. If I were to objectify the moves and draft picks made since Chevy took office, I would say he was selected for the right reason and they are smart picks. We are on the right road and to knee jerk on a commitment to Luongo, both professionally and from a fan base stand point (premature expectations), would be counterproductive.
And thats why he went out and signed free agents right? If we went into next season with the same line up that we did last season, the team would have been eaten alive with all the changes that happened in our division alone.

Last I checked free agency wasnt building through the draft. Chevy saw a need for the team. A weakness. His draft picks weren't ready, so he went out and signed the players that he needed to fill those holes.

Right now, I'm not sure if you saw, but Pavs is having some difficulty. He was released by his team over seas, and has had his work ethic and physical fitness called in question already. Does that seem like a character guy that we want on this team?

dont get me wrong, I'm not in a camp where I hate Pavelec or something, I was one of his biggest fans last season until the DD incident where he hid it from the Jets management. Then he got cut from his team. right now, hes looking further and further from being that solid net minder that we need him to be.

Its not counter productive to take, or at least look into, a better option if its available. Luongo is available, and as Holden said, is a top five net minder in the league. With him between the pipes, this team goes from being either a bubble team, or a first rd no problem exit team, to being a legit threat and at least taking that opening series to 7 games.

Maybe even winning it.

Thats all I'm saying. If there is a better option that will help this team in the long haul, I say that Chevy should at least look into it.

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12-01-2012, 12:54 AM
  #938
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And thats why he went out and signed free agents right? If we went into next season with the same line up that we did last season, the team would have been eaten alive with all the changes that happened in our division alone.

Last I checked free agency wasnt building through the draft. Chevy saw a need for the team. A weakness. His draft picks weren't ready, so he went out and signed the players that he needed to fill those holes.

Right now, I'm not sure if you saw, but Pavs is having some difficulty. He was released by his team over seas, and has had his work ethic and physical fitness called in question already. Does that seem like a character guy that we want on this team?

dont get me wrong, I'm not in a camp where I hate Pavelec or something, I was one of his biggest fans last season until the DD incident where he hid it from the Jets management. Then he got cut from his team. right now, hes looking further and further from being that solid net minder that we need him to be.

Its not counter productive to take, or at least look into, a better option if its available. Luongo is available, and as Holden said, is a top five net minder in the league. With him between the pipes, this team goes from being either a bubble team, or a first rd no problem exit team, to being a legit threat and at least taking that opening series to 7 games.

Maybe even winning it.

Thats all I'm saying. If there is a better option that will help this team in the long haul, I say that Chevy should at least look into it.

I hear ya and respect your point. But Chevy signed fillers in OJ, Pony, and Wellwood was likely to be one but he turned out. You are bang on is seeing them as a weakness that needed to be filled. Their spots will be filled will the guys we have lined up in the system that fit those needs. But think three steps ahead and our team will be a good mix of talent under 25 yrs old.

Can't make excuses for Pavs for getting released. Nor Kane for that matter. These are NHL quality talents that likely know that they are. My guess is they want to be competitive in the best league in the world and they still young. They'll bounce back. There's no doubt in my mind.

Have to disagree with Luongo being a part of the team. Again, its about whats a few years ahead and how we need to get there. He is not the answer. You will never see him in a Jets uniform for that reason. We have the cap space, no? It isn't going to happen, and never will, because it does not fit the type of vision that Chevy and Co. have.

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12-01-2012, 02:45 AM
  #939
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I hear ya and respect your point. But Chevy signed fillers in OJ, Pony, and Wellwood was likely to be one but he turned out. You are bang on is seeing them as a weakness that needed to be filled. Their spots will be filled will the guys we have lined up in the system that fit those needs. But think three steps ahead and our team will be a good mix of talent under 25 yrs old.

Can't make excuses for Pavs for getting released. Nor Kane for that matter. These are NHL quality talents that likely know that they are. My guess is they want to be competitive in the best league in the world and they still young. They'll bounce back. There's no doubt in my mind.

Have to disagree with Luongo being a part of the team. Again, its about whats a few years ahead and how we need to get there. He is not the answer. You will never see him in a Jets uniform for that reason. We have the cap space, no? It isn't going to happen, and never will, because it does not fit the type of vision that Chevy and Co. have.
we do actually have the cap space, considering that its a very cap friendly contract. I do agree that it is unlikely that we will see Lu in a jets uniform, but its probably because Gillis is asking a lot for him, and Chevy isn't willing to gut the team to get him. Nor should he.

but if there was a good deal for him, why not, ya know? He's a clear upgrade over what we have already and will provide stability into at the very least his late 30's if not longer. and if at anytime he stops preforming and won't retire...waive him. He'll only be making a million bucks a season anyways.

If Pekka Rinne was available, would you be ok trading for him? He posts similar stats and plays on a much more defensive minded team then Lu does.

I just think that if you are in a position to make a deal that will make this team by far better then it was before, you should do it. I get that its not within the system or whatever, but sometimes you do what you gotta do, and when chances like this come around they usually only come around once.

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12-01-2012, 03:40 AM
  #940
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we do actually have the cap space, considering that its a very cap friendly contract. I do agree that it is unlikely that we will see Lu in a jets uniform, but its probably because Gillis is asking a lot for him, and Chevy isn't willing to gut the team to get him. Nor should he.

but if there was a good deal for him, why not, ya know? He's a clear upgrade over what we have already and will provide stability into at the very least his late 30's if not longer. and if at anytime he stops preforming and won't retire...waive him. He'll only be making a million bucks a season anyways.

If Pekka Rinne was available, would you be ok trading for him? He posts similar stats and plays on a much more defensive minded team then Lu does.

I just think that if you are in a position to make a deal that will make this team by far better then it was before, you should do it. I get that its not within the system or whatever, but sometimes you do what you gotta do, and when chances like this come around they usually only come around once.
And I think you are missing the point of Chevy's ideology.

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12-01-2012, 03:44 AM
  #941
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And I think you are missing the point of Chevy's ideology.
I don't know about that.

The only signings we know of are the ones we got... not the ones proposed. Well, other than knowing we were in the mix for Parise (who was not looking for short term), Mason and Glass.

Chevy says he's always looking for upgrades and is always buying, as long as they don't mortgage the future. I think that is along the lines of what Sully is saying.

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12-01-2012, 03:45 AM
  #942
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And I think you are missing the point of Chevy's ideology.
what that he wants to build through the draft and have a great young team? Who doesn't want that? I'm just saying that he's an elite netminder, better then what we've got, he'll be around for about five years or so, by then most of our young core wont be so young anymore lol.

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12-01-2012, 03:57 AM
  #943
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what that he wants to build through the draft and have a great young team? Who doesn't want that? I'm just saying that he's an elite netminder, better then what we've got, he'll be around for about five years or so, by then most of our young core wont be so young anymore lol.
And I think that isn't in their plans so it won't happen. Chevy clearly has a vision for where the Jets CAN be instead of where there WILL be. To me, our talent pool is mixed up with credits that can take the Jets to the stand.

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12-01-2012, 04:14 AM
  #944
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And I think that isn't in their plans so it won't happen. Chevy clearly has a vision for where the Jets CAN be instead of where there WILL be. To me, our talent pool is mixed up with credits that can take the Jets to the stand.
If you had added at the end "...with some shrewd additions of FA's to the core talent", then I'd agree with you. To me, Chevy appears to have no problem supplementing the core ideology of success through the draft with choice FA signings. IMHO, this is a very good strategy - you sacrifice nothing other than cap and $$.

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12-01-2012, 07:58 AM
  #945
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If you had added at the end "...with some shrewd additions of FA's to the core talent", then I'd agree with you. To me, Chevy appears to have no problem supplementing the core ideology of success through the draft with choice FA signings. IMHO, this is a very good strategy - you sacrifice nothing other than cap and $$.
Yea it's the Nashville "plus" model. The Preds probably didn't have the budget for the longest time to add $7 plus million in free agents like Winnipeg did this past spring. I look at us as a hybrid model where we will be focused on drafting and developing patiently while supplementing our squad in the near term with FA's so we can compete for a playoff spot. as long as we don't sacrifice the core philosophy of draft and develop then I believe ours is a much more fan friendly model (although less profitable financially in the short term with a sold out building).

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12-01-2012, 10:14 AM
  #946
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Why is this even under discussion? Roberto Luongo has publicly stated on many occasions (and for all to hear) that he wants to play in Florida to be with his wife and kids. Winnipeg is essentially the last place that he'd want to play as such. Why then is it supposedly a good idea for the Jets to attempt to acquire a player that clearly wouldn't want to be here in the first place?

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12-01-2012, 10:35 AM
  #947
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Why is this even under discussion? Roberto Luongo has publicly stated on many occasions (and for all to hear) that he wants to play in Florida to be with his wife and kids. Winnipeg is essentially the last place that he'd want to play as such. Why then is it supposedly a good idea for the Jets to attempt to acquire a player that clearly wouldn't want to be here in the first place?
He's also said he's not going to stand in the way of the team and while he would prefer to play in forida, he understands that there may not be a deal there and he may have to play else where.

No one knows what is going on inside Luongo's head...except Luongo. For all we know, heheard the stories of how the management treats their players, and where the team is heading and about our kick ass crowd and fan base. Maybe it's on his list. Who knows?

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12-01-2012, 10:50 AM
  #948
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
He's also said he's not going to stand in the way of the team and while he would prefer to play in forida, he understands that there may not be a deal there and he may have to play else where.

No one knows what is going on inside Luongo's head...except Luongo. For all we know, heheard the stories of how the management treats their players, and where the team is heading and about our kick ass crowd and fan base. Maybe it's on his list. Who knows?
Luongo's wife reportedly complained about having to visit him in "cold" Vancouver and will no longer visit him there. He is obviously only stating he wouldn't stand in the way of trades to spots other than Florida because he is contractually bound to report elsewhere regardless - or he doesn't get paid. He wouldn't be happy in Winnipeg though because it represents a place his wife wouldn't even deem worthy of a visit. Jets management have said that they only want players that want to be here; I'm guessing Luongo is about the last player they'd seek to acquire.

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12-01-2012, 11:02 AM
  #949
Gump Hasek
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If some of you are so eager to be rid of Pavelec then Cory Schneider probably represents a more realistic option. He has additionally played in this market and would probably relish the opportunity to be the starter here. Talent-wise it is also likely a lateral move between Schnieder and Pavelec though Pavs certainly has the edge in starts/experience. There is also a huge risk in going with an unproven guy though as your starter; see the Leafs last year as an example of that.

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12-01-2012, 11:16 AM
  #950
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Personally, I'm hoping that Pavs can up his game. Even a slight bit more consistency will help propell the Jets to the playoffs. If his stellar athleticism is backed up by some boring consistency, I think that would go a long way towards the Jets making the next step.

If Lu's wife wasn't happy visiting him in BC in the winter, then no place in Canada would suffice for someone who prefers a Florida climate. It's all just shades of cold. Agree that Luongo wouldn't be a good fit as someone who would really want to play here, but his play itself would certainly help. I'm hoping Pavs can make that next step to get to that level, TBH

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