HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Free Agency Frenzy -- 2012 Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-01-2012, 07:20 PM
  #651
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,566
vCash: 5888
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
https://twitter.com/BroadStBull/stat...85070409842690



Maybe we will have some news tonight!
He doesn't like waiting.

GKJ is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:20 PM
  #652
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
...ok, I'm lost.

Look at the Penguins. They have two players at 8.7 AAV, three more at 5 AAV, and still have 11 million to spare _this_ season. I'm not sure why you would be concerned that adding one player at 7.8 would keep the Flyers from resigning Giroux two years from now...
The Pens have $11M to spare because they traded Staal and Michalek. They dumped a defender from an already weak defense corps so they can chase Parise. There's also rumors they will trade other players as well. The Flyers may afford to keep Giroux and Parise, but they may have to trade talent around him to do so.

Haute Couturier is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:23 PM
  #653
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
The Pens have $11M to spare because they traded Staal and Michalek. They dumped a defender from an already weak defense corps so they can chase Parise. There's also rumors they will trade other players as well. The Flyers may afford to keep Giroux and Parise, but they may have to trade talent around him to do so.
I already made a post about this in the Parise thread on the trade forums. I commented on how, similarly to the Flyers, the Pens are already strong at forward and thin at defense and they just worsened that by trading Staal and Michalek to sign Parise. Therefore, by signing Parise I argue that they're making their team even weaker.

Just for reference, they were the highest scoring team in the league last year without Parise by far. Even without Staal's 25 goals they're still 4th best in the NHL. Conversely, they were ranked 12th and in goals against. That's without taking into factor their disaster of a playoff round and shaky goaltending.

Garbage Goal is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:23 PM
  #654
El Dandy*
...Menace To Society
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dry Island
Posts: 9,767
vCash: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
He doesn't like waiting.
Don't make Big Fancy wait.

I expect him now to just trade a big package to get Nash just so he can get his Free Agent Frenzy fix.

El Dandy* is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:23 PM
  #655
RIPRichardsCarter
Registered User
 
RIPRichardsCarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
https://twitter.com/BroadStBull/stat...85070409842690



Maybe we will have some news tonight!
If Parise is apparently choosing tomorrow I'm sure we'll hear a lot after that signing.

RIPRichardsCarter is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:24 PM
  #656
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Timonen (6.33) - Number one d-man.
Meszaros (4.00) - Number 4/5 d-man.
Hartnell (4.20) - Top six winger.
Shelley (1.10) - Extra forward.
Lilja (0.74) - Extra d-man.

You have to replace all those people. As well as give raises to Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, etc. Then you also have to keep in mind that, as the cap rises, so does the cost of players.
Timonen replaced by emerging Coburn and addition of Suter.
Meszaros replaced by emerging Manning/Bourdon/Gustafsson and/or UFA additions.

Hartnell is the only one I see us having a problem with replacing.

Raises to B. Schenn and Couturier will be 2nd-round ELCs. They will not be so high.
Simmonds and Voracek will be 3rd-round ELCs. They will be mid-range price.

L. Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann are all locked up fairly long-term, and unless they break out, any raises at the end of their contracts will likely be minor.

It's all very doable.

Keep in mind that my equation also factored in a lowering salary cap as well. With a lowering salary cap, players' prices will go down, not up. So you're actually wrong. And even if player prices continue to go up, it means the cap will continue to climb. Therefore, we will be alright either way.

CS is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:25 PM
  #657
YuioIklo
Registered User
 
YuioIklo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quebec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,425
vCash: 100
This has to be the worst July 1st in the recent years... it was just boring. Hope tomorrow will be big.

YuioIklo is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:26 PM
  #658
healthyscratch
Registered User
 
healthyscratch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,106
vCash: 500
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Garrison left $ on table - was offered "Wideman money" elsewhere - but wanted to play for hometown VAN, which held firm on internal $ scale.

healthyscratch is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:27 PM
  #659
healthyscratch
Registered User
 
healthyscratch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,106
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
This has to be the worst July 1st in the recent years... it was just boring. Hope tomorrow will be big.

There's only two names that everybody cares about.

healthyscratch is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:27 PM
  #660
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Timonen replaced by emerging Coburn and addition of Suter.
Meszaros replaced by emerging Manning/Bourdon/Gustafsson and/or UFA additions.


Hartnell is the only one I see us having a problem with replacing.

Raises to B. Schenn and Couturier will be 2nd-round ELCs. They will not be so high.
Simmonds and Voracek will be 3rd-round ELCs. They will be mid-range price.

L. Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann are all locked up fairly long-term, and unless they break out, any raises at the end of their contracts will likely be minor.

It's all very doable.

Keep in mind that my equation also factored in a lowering salary cap as well. With a lowering salary cap, players' prices will go down, not up. So you're actually wrong. And even if player prices continue to go up, it means the cap will continue to climb. Therefore, we will be alright either way.
...You're expecting Coburn to "emerge" yet not break out? What does that even mean?

You're making the assumption that Coburn grows (which he hasn't shown he will) and that either Manning will turn into a quality NHL player and/or that Gustafsson/MAB will manage to turn into someone as good as Meszaros (a player capable of being a second pairing d-man, something those two are not capable of right now).

Garbage Goal is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:28 PM
  #661
King Forsberg
21 68 88 16 44 28
 
King Forsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,225
vCash: 300
It's only the first day of free agency, Holmgren will make up for a boring first day. Probably tomorrow

King Forsberg is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:28 PM
  #662
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I already made a post about this in the Parise thread on the trade forums. I commented on how, similarly to the Flyers, the Pens are already strong at forward and thin at defense and they just worsened that by trading Staal and Michalek to sign Parise. Therefore, by signing Parise I argue that they're making their team even weaker.

Just for reference, they were the highest scoring team in the league last year without Parise by far. Even without Staal's 25 goals they're still 4th best in the NHL. Conversely, they were ranked 12th and in goals against. That's without taking into factor their disaster of a playoff round and shaky goaltending.
They've already traded staal. Looking forward how does signing Parise make their team weaker?

You have to look at these signings in a bubble. What's done is done.

I'd rather see the 2012/13 pens not have Parise.

tuckrr is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:28 PM
  #663
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,027
vCash: 500
Tip of the cap to Ed Snider for putting over $200 M in contract offers on the table in a single afternoon.

Damaged Goods is online now  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:30 PM
  #664
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
They've already traded staal. Looking forward how does signing Parise make their team weaker?

You have to look at these signings in a bubble. What's done is done.

I'd rather see the 2012/13 pens not have Parise.
I explained that. Trading Staal and Michalek doesn't happen if they aren't expecting to make a big free agent splash via Parise/Suter.

Garbage Goal is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:32 PM
  #665
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
...You're expecting Coburn to "emerge" yet not break out? What does that even mean?

You're making the assumption that Coburn grows (which he hasn't shown he will) and that either Manning will turn into a quality NHL player and/or that Gustafsson/MAB will manage to turn into someone as good as Meszaros (a player capable of being a second pairing d-man, something those two are not capable of right now).
No, I'm making the assumption that our current players outside of a select few (with expiring contracts anyway) will not regress in the upcoming seasons and that some will actually improve.

Any holes left will be filled by emerging prospects, emerging talent, or the general manager himself via trade or free agency.

Look, I'm not going make a model of our finances over the next 5 years just to prove a point.

CS is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:34 PM
  #666
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
No, I'm making the assumption that our current players outside of a select few (with expiring contracts anyway) will not regress in the upcoming seasons and that some will actually improve.

Any holes left will be filled by emerging prospects, emerging talent, or the general manager himself via trade or free agency.

Look, I'm not going make a model of our finances over the next 5 years just to prove a point.
So you're expecting for none of our players to regress, Coburn to "emerge" but not "break out", and holes to be filled by emerging talent or emerging prospects in an extremely weak prospect pool whose only real talent is Laughton? Riiight.

Garbage Goal is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:34 PM
  #667
Jray42
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 3,215
vCash: 91
Cbssports had Kubina as the 21st best upcoming UFA, ahead of Jackman, Selanne, Stoll, Brodeur, Salo, Smyth and Penner.

Looks like someone was using NHL 12 ratings

Jray42 is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:36 PM
  #668
SAINDON
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The First State
Country: United States
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Bob McKenzie said the Flyers are the most aggressive team financially. The offers for Suter and Parise are $100 Million plus for each.

SAINDON is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:37 PM
  #669
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,551
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
Cbssports had Kubina as the 21st best upcoming UFA, ahead of Jackman, Selanne, Stoll, Brodeur, Salo, Smyth and Penner.

Looks like someone was using NHL 12 ratings
Haha. Wow, that is pretty bad.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:37 PM
  #670
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So you're expecting for none of our players to regress, Coburn to "emerge" but not "break out", and holes to be filled by emerging talent or emerging prospects in an extremely weak prospect pool whose only real talent is Laughton? Riiight.
I think the presumption is that the emerging talent is already on the big team roster.

If you want to figure it out, project the cap and create new contracts on capgeek for summer 2014 and so on.

Damaged Goods is online now  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:38 PM
  #671
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAINDON View Post
Bob McKenzie said the Flyers are the most aggressive team financially. The offers for Suter and Parise are $100 Million plus for each.
One thing you can respect with this team is they are willing to spend anything they want on the prized free agents. Like someone else said, cap tip to Mr Snider.

Prongo is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:38 PM
  #672
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I think the presumption is that the emerging talent is already on the big team roster.

If you want to figure it out, project the cap and create new contracts on capgeek for summer 2014 and so on.
If talent emerges on the roster then Homer is going to have to pay for it. Which, in turn, makes it harder to fit Giroux, Parise, and Suter all under the cap.

I'm not arguing that it's impossible to fit Giroux, Parise, and Suter into the team. I'm just saying it's not worth it and makes it much harder to manage the team.

Garbage Goal is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:39 PM
  #673
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So you're expecting for none of our players to regress, Coburn to "emerge" but not "break out", and holes to be filled by emerging talent or emerging prospects in an extremely weak prospect pool whose only real talent is Laughton? Riiight.
Coburn has become a #2. Outside of a healthy Timonen, he is currently our best defenseman.

So he's already broken out. I'm expecting him to "emerge" as the leader of the defense this year, particularly if we don't sign Suter.

I also expect L. Schenn to start turning back to the right path in much the same way Coburn did.

Look, explaining things to you is become really frustrating. Can you apply some context, so I don't have to baby every answer at every turn?

As for our prospect pool comment. I'm not explaining how dumb that comment is.

CS is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:41 PM
  #674
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn has become a #2. Outside of a healthy Timonen, he is currently our best defenseman.

So he's already broken out. I'm expecting him to "emerge" as the leader of the defense this year, particularly if we don't sign Suter.

I also expect L. Schenn to start turning back to the right path in much the same way Coburn did.

Look, explaining things to you is become really frustrating. Can you apply some context, so I don't have to baby every answer at every turn?

As for our prospect pool comment. I'm not explaining how dumb that comment is.
You've been historically known as someone who's impossible to talk to so I don't even know why I'm trying.

Also you're an ******* for continually using the word babying and facepalming me.

All I see you doing is throwing around cheap insults, pretending like you know everything per usual, and making a lot of positive assumptions regarding the team.

Garbage Goal is offline  
Old
07-01-2012, 07:42 PM
  #675
SgtJoseph
Registered User
 
SgtJoseph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northwest Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 3,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I just don't understand this mentality.

This team wasn't good enough last season, what makes you think not doing anything is a good idea?
You gotta realize we had quite a few injured players, we have some very promising young players that showed a lot in their first year,and Bryz was not fully adjusted to playing in Philly....Nothing wrong with staying the course in my opinion and staying with this very promising group.Bryz should have a much better year,and our young core has a year of experience now under their belts....

SgtJoseph is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.