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Average team sizes vs. Oilers

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Old
10-02-2013, 02:41 PM
  #1
dyzfunctioned
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Average team sizes vs. Oilers

Interesting compilation of league heights/weights/ages done by mirtle:

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/10/20...eight-and.html

Edmonton ranks 13th in average height and 15th in average weight.

Last year's final four:
CHI - 13th in height, 16th in weight
BOS - 6th in height, 17th in weight
LAK - 5th in height, 1st in weight
PIT - 22nd in height, 19th in weight

Average = 12th in height, 13th in weight

Going back to final 8:

OTT - 6th in height, 9th in weight
NYR - 13th in height, 21st in weight
DET - 26th in height, 20th in weight
SJS - 16th in height, 8th in weight

Average = 15th in height, 15th in weight

Average of teams who made it past first round in playoffs = 14th in both height and weight

Only teams in top 8 really bigger, on average, than Edmonton are OTT and LAK.

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10-02-2013, 02:44 PM
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St Louis is 28th in height and 2nd in weight.

Bowling balls, all of them.

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Old
10-02-2013, 02:46 PM
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Thanks for that.

And even more promising we added guys who mixed it nicely last night and have added nicely to our push back and functional toughness (i.e. Perron, JJ, Belov, Gazdik). Loved JJ going right after Buff after the Eberle hit.

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10-02-2013, 03:21 PM
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Evil Ernie
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I've never bought that the Oilers were a small team on average, it's just a question of where the size is distributed. It's semi-useless when all of the size is in your bottom six.

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10-02-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Ernie View Post
I've never bought that the Oilers were a small team on average, it's just a question of where the size is distributed. It's semi-useless when all of the size is in your bottom six.
Huge D-corp as well

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10-02-2013, 03:37 PM
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5RingsAndABeer
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Size being useful for the playoffs is a myth. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...s-slow-big-ice

The teams that win are simply the best teams. Replacing a talented player like Eberle or Yakupov with a big guy who isn't as talented isn't going to make our team better.

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10-02-2013, 03:40 PM
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dyzfunctioned
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Size being useful for the playoffs is a myth. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...s-slow-big-ice

The teams that win are simply the best teams. Replacing a talented player like Eberle or Yakupov with a big guy who isn't as talented isn't going to make our team better.
This is the point I've endlessly, and unsuccessfully, attempted to get across in a number of posts. Part of the reason I posted this.

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10-02-2013, 03:41 PM
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Yeah, but we play small.

Although, last night we didn't get manhandled by Winnipeg, so maybe that's changing.

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10-02-2013, 04:00 PM
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The Oilers held their own without their top 2 centers and almost won the game in spite of their goaltending being unusually (but not surprisingly) terrible.

MacT better have a plan should the G tending continue the suck or the skaters are going to start sucking due to loss of confidence in their G. The truth is though that DD could get a shutout every game for the rest of the season.

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10-02-2013, 04:34 PM
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What above average top 6 sizes?

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10-02-2013, 04:39 PM
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I think the height and weights should be separated into top 6, bottom 6, defense, and goaltending averages.

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10-02-2013, 04:57 PM
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Being big isn't the only issue, it's playing big. Mike Richards is, what, 190 pounds? The Oilers don't have those kinds of players...although I'm not demanding that they acquire Mike Richards. Ference is even smaller but he plays a tough, gritty game. Compare that to gentle giants like Ryan Whitney and Tom Gilbert.

Maybe Joensuu and the 6'0" Perron can help with that this year.

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10-02-2013, 04:59 PM
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Our D is a lot bigger than most, probably right up there in the top. only ference is small, the Schultz's are average, then smid Petry and Belov are all 6'3+

Problem with us is'nt our size on average, its that our top 6 has very little size. Hall, nuge, Perron and Hemsky are average size. Eberle, Gagner and Yak are small.

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10-02-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Size being useful for the playoffs is a myth. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...s-slow-big-ice

The teams that win are simply the best teams. Replacing a talented player like Eberle or Yakupov with a big guy who isn't as talented isn't going to make our team better.
True, but when the top 6 are relatively "small" they do tend to wear down against bigger opposition.

Hypothetical....if you could have guys that were 3" taller and 30lds heavier but with the same skill set as RNH and Gagner, you'd take it right?

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10-02-2013, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
True, but when the top 6 are relatively "small" they do tend to wear down against bigger opposition.

Hypothetical....if you could have guys that were 3" taller and 30lds heavier but with the same skill set as RNH and Gagner, you'd take it right?
Ofcoarse you would obviously take the bigger person if they have the same skillset. But the thing is that is very rare to find. Smaller players tend to be more skilled, but bigger players have their size for protection so the overall usefullness of the player evens out.

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10-02-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
True, but when the top 6 are relatively "small" they do tend to wear down against bigger opposition.

Hypothetical....if you could have guys that were 3" taller and 30lds heavier but with the same skill set as RNH and Gagner, you'd take it right?
I think it's more about grit than size. You need grit to survive in the playoffs when the refs swallow their whistles and your body starts to breakdown (after so much hockey and with the level of intensity that exists in the playoffs).

I think the Perron trade was an example of how we got smaller but gritty (and, in my opinion, better suited for the playoffs).

Yep, I'd take it if they were that much taller and bigger. I don't think raw measurements matter as much as how big the player plays. That's why I'm not worried about Hall or Yakupov whatsoever.

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10-02-2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Being big isn't the only issue, it's playing big. Mike Richards is, what, 190 pounds? The Oilers don't have those kinds of players...although I'm not demanding that they acquire Mike Richards. Ference is even smaller but he plays a tough, gritty game. Compare that to gentle giants like Ryan Whitney and Tom Gilbert.

Maybe Joensuu and the 6'0" Perron can help with that this year.
And if all Oilers fans realized size does not equate to difficulty to play against, then bringing up stuff like this would never have to happen.

Looking back only a few months ago, at the draft thread, where everyone touted Monahan as being the saviour the Oilers needed (hyperbole) whereas they classified Elias Lindholm as a soft, undersized forward. Monahan is 6'2, 187, and Canadian, while Lindholm is 6'0, 192, and Swedish. If anyone had watched the two play, they would see that Lindholm is arguably more physical/gritty than Monahan, but since Monahan is 2 inches taller and Canadian he was exactly what the Oilers needed whereas Lindholm was another soft, undersized Swede.

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10-02-2013, 05:37 PM
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Average top six for those teams by my calculations, just picked the top six scoring forwards on the team, and then replaced some that I knew should be top six (ex. Spezza for Ottawa because of injury, swapped Stalberg out for Bickell)

Chicago
6'1 206 lbs

Boston
6'1 203 lbs

LA Kings
6'1 207 lbs

Pittsburgh
6'1 202 lbs

Ottawa
6'1 207 lbs

New York Rangers
6'1 198 lbs

Detroit
6'0 201 lbs

San Jose
6'2 212 lbs

Edmonton
6'0 189 lbs

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10-02-2013, 05:41 PM
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dyzfunctioned
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Originally Posted by Sloth Slothersons View Post
What above average top 6 sizes?
Looking at a few random top 6's

LAK, arguably the largest team in the league, has an average top 6 of 205 lbs and 6'1.

The Oilers, including Hall, Perron, RNH, Gagner, Yakupov, and Eberle as the top 6, are an average of 194 lbs and 6'0.

Pittsburgh, which falls just below the average, has an average top 6 size of 6'1 and 199 lbs.

Rangers have an average height of 6'0 and 196 lbs, virtually identical to the Oilers.

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10-02-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
I think it's more about grit than size. You need grit to survive in the playoffs when the refs swallow their whistles and your body starts to breakdown (after so much hockey and with the level of intensity that exists in the playoffs).

I think the Perron trade was an example of how we got smaller but gritty (and, in my opinion, better suited for the playoffs).

Yep, I'd take it if they were that much taller and bigger. I don't think raw measurements matter as much as how big the player plays. That's why I'm not worried about Hall or Yakupov whatsoever.
No argument there....its not too often the "whole" package comes along. I still think the best combination of size, skill and grit was Lindros. There has not been another like him since he left the game. Sure he was a monumental jerk.....but my God what a hockey player. I'll never forgive Stevens for that hot.

But you are right.....playing big and being big are not mutually exclusive.

Still think more size in the top 6 would do you guys a world of good.

Got a real gem in the Jesse guy......a replacement for GlenX.

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Old
10-02-2013, 05:43 PM
  #21
dyzfunctioned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersrule14 View Post
Average top six for those teams by my calculations, just picked the top six scoring forwards on the team, and then replaced some that I knew should be top six (ex. Spezza for Ottawa because of injury, swapped Stalberg out for Bickell)

Chicago
6'1 206 lbs

Boston
6'1 203 lbs

LA Kings
6'1 207 lbs

Pittsburgh
6'1 202 lbs

Ottawa
6'1 207 lbs

New York Rangers
6'1 198 lbs

Detroit
6'0 201 lbs

San Jose
6'2 212 lbs

Edmonton
6'0 189 lbs
Either we're looking at different sources for weights/heights or we're using different players in the top 6

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Old
10-02-2013, 06:42 PM
  #22
oilersrule14
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
Either we're looking at different sources for weights/heights or we're using different players in the top 6
Lol probably both, I used NHL.com and last year's scoring leaders for the players.

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Old
10-02-2013, 09:57 PM
  #23
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It's not about height. It's about playstyle. Oilers need a crash and bang type player in the Top 6.

A Mike Richards at 5'11 can do much more for the team than a 6'5 Dustin Penner.

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10-02-2013, 10:52 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Evil Ernie View Post
I've never bought that the Oilers were a small team on average, it's just a question of where the size is distributed. It's semi-useless when all of the size is in your bottom six.
Yeah, if they could somehow add Lucic or Horton to the top 6, the size issue would not have even been raised.

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Old
10-02-2013, 10:54 PM
  #25
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It's a total myth you need size to win. You need grit and skill to win, end of story.

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