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Old
07-13-2012, 04:39 AM
  #526
BlueDream
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I really hope the Blues can work out a 4-year deal with Oshie before arbitration. If it goes to arb and he gets a 2 year deal I could see him getting a sour taste in his mouth and bolting when he reaches UFA. I'm just guessing here, and obviously there's a strong chance he could stay as well, but we just gave him the "prove it" contract - and he did prove himself and did everything the Blues asked him to, so if he gets another short contract I'm sure he won't happy. Arbitration is never good for relationships. Just thinking out loud here. Hope the Blues get something done...Oshie is definitely worth more than Perron and I'm not sure what Oshie's camp is asking for - it very well could be too high - but everyone knows how important he is to this team. I think I speak for everyone when I say I'd like to see them buck up and get something done. Although right now I don't see it happening since it sounds like the two sides aren't even talking. We'll see.

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07-13-2012, 08:24 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
I really hope the Blues can work out a 4-year deal with Oshie before arbitration. If it goes to arb and he gets a 2 year deal I could see him getting a sour taste in his mouth and bolting when he reaches UFA. I'm just guessing here, and obviously there's a strong chance he could stay as well, but we just gave him the "prove it" contract - and he did prove himself and did everything the Blues asked him to, so if he gets another short contract I'm sure he won't happy. Arbitration is never good for relationships. Just thinking out loud here. Hope the Blues get something done...Oshie is definitely worth more than Perron and I'm not sure what Oshie's camp is asking for - it very well could be too high - but everyone knows how important he is to this team. I think I speak for everyone when I say I'd like to see them buck up and get something done. Although right now I don't see it happening since it sounds like the two sides aren't even talking. We'll see.
Where did you get the impression that they aren't talking? I am pretty sure they will get a deal done before arbitration. If they don't, then I would start to wonder how long Oshie will be around for.

I'm not against trading him in the right deal though, but I wouldn't want to be adding much more. If the Coyotes want Oshie++ for Yandle, not interested. I'd see if Florida were interested in Oshie for Kulikov.

We also have to remember our depth on wing makes up for our lack of elite forwards. We can't be trading Oshie+Rattie+, if Stewart bombs against next season then that leaves us with Tarasenko and D'Agostini on RW going forward and no prospects ready to come up.

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07-13-2012, 10:22 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
I really hope the Blues can work out a 4-year deal with Oshie before arbitration. If it goes to arb and he gets a 2 year deal I could see him getting a sour taste in his mouth and bolting when he reaches UFA. I'm just guessing here, and obviously there's a strong chance he could stay as well, but we just gave him the "prove it" contract - and he did prove himself and did everything the Blues asked him to, so if he gets another short contract I'm sure he won't happy. Arbitration is never good for relationships. Just thinking out loud here. Hope the Blues get something done...Oshie is definitely worth more than Perron and I'm not sure what Oshie's camp is asking for - it very well could be too high - but everyone knows how important he is to this team. I think I speak for everyone when I say I'd like to see them buck up and get something done. Although right now I don't see it happening since it sounds like the two sides aren't even talking. We'll see.
The team chooses the term, and you can be damned sure that the Blues will choose 1 year.

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07-13-2012, 10:34 AM
  #529
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I think a lot of people are getting worried about nothing. Armstrong hasn't made a bad contract yet, and really hasn't made a bad move, no reason to think that he will start now. If Armstrong didn't think that Oshie doesn't want to be here long-term, he probably would've traded him for Yandle or someone of that caliber.

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07-13-2012, 12:44 PM
  #530
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The team chooses the term, and you can be damned sure that the Blues will choose 1 year.
Why would they choose 1 year? Are they really going to assume that the award will be more in Oshie's favour? I would guess they would want at least 2 years, if not more.

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07-13-2012, 12:56 PM
  #531
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I realize that it could very well be Oshie's camp being unreasonable, but one would think we would've heard some details by now if he was asking for something truly outrageous. That kind of thing tends to get leaked (a la Weber, Doughty, Dubinsky) with purpose. I think the more likely scenario is that the Blues are being firm on Backes' 4.5mil cap, while Oshie is asking for the same deal Backes got due to inflation...which seems reasonable to me. Having Oshie locked up at 4.5 is less of a risk than Perron at 4, so what gives?

You can't help but dislike what kind of message this sends to the other players...here's a prove it contract...you proved it...now lets bicker over a quarter million dollars while we take a sizable risk on your buddy.

I don't mean to insinuate that Perron is a huge risk at 4 & 4...but the fact is that he's getting a huge pay bump based on potential/projections...that's a slap in Oshie's face, IMO.

I value Oshie pretty highly, but I'd rather trade him now than risk him leaving in F/A. Zero chance the Blues can/will match what he gets offered in F/A.

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07-13-2012, 01:09 PM
  #532
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I don't really think Armstrong is a guy that negotiates through the newspaper. He's much too professional. Remember when Polak was asking for too much? He was very courteous to him, and let him hang out for a RFA offer that never came.

I think in the absence of anything else to worry about folks here are obsessing about Oshie's contract. Its going to get done. This is a process and this is what it looks like when we have no idea about the privy negotiations. No points really in speculating much more about it until some actual facts come out (which I doubt happens until we see the contract).

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07-13-2012, 01:43 PM
  #533
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Why would they choose 1 year? Are they really going to assume that the award will be more in Oshie's favour? I would guess they would want at least 2 years, if not more.
Oshie becomes a UFA in 2 years. No way do the Blues take him right up to being a UFA. If it actually ends up going to arbitration (I still think they'll get a deal done beforehand) then the Blues would almost assuredly pick 1 yr so that he's still a RFA when they do it all over again next summer.

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07-13-2012, 02:42 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Oshie becomes a UFA in 2 years. No way do the Blues take him right up to being a UFA. If it actually ends up going to arbitration (I still think they'll get a deal done beforehand) then the Blues would almost assuredly pick 1 yr so that he's still a RFA when they do it all over again next summer.
I also think a deal will be done before the arbitration hearing July 20th, and if not Oshie's a RFA at this very time next Summer on a 1 year deal.

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07-13-2012, 03:34 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by taylord22 View Post
I realize that it could very well be Oshie's camp being unreasonable, but one would think we would've heard some details by now if he was asking for something truly outrageous. That kind of thing tends to get leaked (a la Weber, Doughty, Dubinsky) with purpose. I think the more likely scenario is that the Blues are being firm on Backes' 4.5mil cap, while Oshie is asking for the same deal Backes got due to inflation...which seems reasonable to me. Having Oshie locked up at 4.5 is less of a risk than Perron at 4, so what gives?

You can't help but dislike what kind of message this sends to the other players...here's a prove it contract...you proved it...now lets bicker over a quarter million dollars while we take a sizable risk on your buddy.

I don't mean to insinuate that Perron is a huge risk at 4 & 4...but the fact is that he's getting a huge pay bump based on potential/projections...that's a slap in Oshie's face, IMO.

I value Oshie pretty highly, but I'd rather trade him now than risk him leaving in F/A. Zero chance the Blues can/will match what he gets offered in F/A.
I wouldn't give him Backes' deal. I love Oshie but we are talking about a guy has never scored 20; Backes has hit 30 twice.

It also seems Oshie isn't a leader on the team the same way a Backes or Steen or Jackman is, though I admit I have no way to prove I'm right or wrong on that.

Should he make more than Perron? Sure. Should he make more or the same as Backes? Not in my opinion no.

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07-13-2012, 04:44 PM
  #536
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I understand what taylord22 is getting at with the way the Perron contract may have influenced Oshie's thinking, although I don't think it's some kind of insult to Oshie that Perron got the contract. Oshie knows how talented and dedicated Perron is. I doubt they're merely 250K/yr apart, otherwise the deal would be done by now, because that's not a huge gulf even if multiplied by 4-5 years.

Blues definitely opt for 1yr as opposed to 2yrs, for the UFA reason IA specified.

I kinda hope Armstrong budges on the term and takes a longer term than he's said he's comfortable with. Why not pay Oshie 4.25M x 6yr? I really don't see too much risk in a deal like that. The guy is totally defensively consistent, which means that no matter what he'll always have trade value. And he's actually pretty darn consistent in the PPG category too. To buy 4 UFA years the AAV has to be a little higher than 4M IMO. Oshie has to know if he ever hit UFA he'd get some offer in the 5M ballpark but at the same time he'd probably be leaving for a new team in that case, so taking something like 4.25M and getting the longer term with his team isn't really a "loss," especially knowing by taking that deal he helps his team remain competitive. Armstrong compromised on the longer term for Perron when he saw what guys were getting in UFA, why not do the same for Oshie. He originally told media he was looking at a 1-2 year deal for Perron and nothing upwards of 5yrs for Oshie, but maybe he concedes on both in return for a smaller AAV. Worst case is that Oshie remains a valuable trade asset in case they need to make a move. That wouldn't be a bad contract.

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07-13-2012, 05:12 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Oshie becomes a UFA in 2 years. No way do the Blues take him right up to being a UFA. If it actually ends up going to arbitration (I still think they'll get a deal done beforehand) then the Blues would almost assuredly pick 1 yr so that he's still a RFA when they do it all over again next summer.
Given THAT, then I'd continue negotiating all the way up to the arbitration, to seal a 3 or 4 year deal, which both parties would rather have in the end, rather than go through this again, next year.

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07-13-2012, 07:34 PM
  #538
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I wouldn't give him Backes' deal. I love Oshie but we are talking about a guy has never scored 20; Backes has hit 30 twice.

It also seems Oshie isn't a leader on the team the same way a Backes or Steen or Jackman is, though I admit I have no way to prove I'm right or wrong on that.

Should he make more than Perron? Sure. Should he make more or the same as Backes? Not in my opinion no.
2 mistakes, you are comparing Backes now to Oshie now and you are comparing $4.5m in 2010 to $4.5m in 2012.

Oshie has more career points in fewer games than 2010 Backes. $4.5m in 2010 is now the equivalent of $5.3m in the NHL.

If Backes was out of contract this summer, would you have blinked if we had just given him a 5 year deal at $5m per season?

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07-13-2012, 08:21 PM
  #539
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Where did you get the impression that they aren't talking? I am pretty sure they will get a deal done before arbitration. If they don't, then I would start to wonder how long Oshie will be around for.

I'm not against trading him in the right deal though, but I wouldn't want to be adding much more. If the Coyotes want Oshie++ for Yandle, not interested. I'd see if Florida were interested in Oshie for Kulikov.

We also have to remember our depth on wing makes up for our lack of elite forwards. We can't be trading Oshie+Rattie+, if Stewart bombs against next season then that leaves us with Tarasenko and D'Agostini on RW going forward and no prospects ready to come up.
FWIW I got that from Jeremy Rutherford. I believe he said in his chat that he doesn't believe the sides are really talking right now.

Hopefully they get something done. Won't be happy with another 1-year deal, Oshie has shown what kind of player he is - more so than Perron.

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07-13-2012, 08:54 PM
  #540
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Love Oshie's game but goal scorers are like home run hitters, they get the cash. Oshie will be well paid for what he does but I don't ever see him being the goal scorer Perron can be.

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07-13-2012, 09:32 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
2 mistakes, you are comparing Backes now to Oshie now and you are comparing $4.5m in 2010 to $4.5m in 2012.

Oshie has more career points in fewer games than 2010 Backes. $4.5m in 2010 is now the equivalent of $5.3m in the NHL.

If Backes was out of contract this summer, would you have blinked if we had just given him a 5 year deal at $5m per season?
Not at all as I think 4.5 was a steal then.

I don't think Oshie is worth as much as Backes though.

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07-14-2012, 04:07 AM
  #542
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2 mistakes, you are comparing Backes now to Oshie now and you are comparing $4.5m in 2010 to $4.5m in 2012.

Oshie has more career points in fewer games than 2010 Backes. $4.5m in 2010 is now the equivalent of $5.3m in the NHL.

If Backes was out of contract this summer, would you have blinked if we had just given him a 5 year deal at $5m per season?
the 2010 Backes deal was the previous contract that Vancouver signed Backes to a offer sheet and the Blues matched correct?

If it's a 1 year deal in arbitration, Oshie and the Blues can not at this time next year go to arbitration again, Oshie could get a offer sheet from another team.

anyway, I'm hoping for a 4 year deal simmiler to what Perron is making? but no chance on what Backes gets, Oshie like others have said isn't the goal scorer like Backes or Perron.

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07-14-2012, 04:56 AM
  #543
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Not at all as I think 4.5 was a steal then.

I don't think Oshie is worth as much as Backes though.
That is the point I am getting at. Just because we have Backes signed to a great contract, that is looking even better now, doesn't mean we can use that contract as a measuring stick of all future deals. We can avoid giving out bad contracts, but we can't expect to sign every player to a cheap deal.

I don't think Oshie is worth the same as Backes, but in the current market he is worth around $4.5m.

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07-14-2012, 05:07 AM
  #544
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the 2010 Backes deal was the previous contract that Vancouver signed Backes to a offer sheet and the Blues matched correct?

If it's a 1 year deal in arbitration, Oshie and the Blues can not at this time next year go to arbitration again, Oshie could get a offer sheet from another team.

anyway, I'm hoping for a 4 year deal simmiler to what Perron is making? but no chance on what Backes gets, Oshie like others have said isn't the goal scorer like Backes or Perron.
The 2010 Backes deal is his current, 5 year $22.5m deal. The Vancouver offersheet was in 2008, 3 years $7.5m.

The Blues and Oshie won't be going to arbitration at this point next year even if he is a RFA again, but both the Blues and Oshie would be within their rights to elect arbitration again if they wished. The rule is that a team can only take a player to arbitration once, a player can elect it multiple times. Oshie elected arbitration here, so both the Blues and Oshie could call for it again next season if the need be.

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07-14-2012, 01:44 PM
  #545
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Kyle Wellwood was re-signed by Winnipeg, just as I had predicted. Not that he was a viable option for The Blues, in any case. Personally, I don't think that The Blues will trade for a 3rd line centre, or pick up a scoring forward (unless a Top 7 forward is traded to obtain the left-handed Top 6 defenceman).

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07-14-2012, 02:55 PM
  #546
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Kyle Wellwood was re-signed by Winnipeg, just as I had predicted. Not that he was a viable option for The Blues, in any case. Personally, I don't think that The Blues will trade for a 3rd line centre, or pick up a scoring forward (unless a Top 7 forward is traded to obtain the left-handed Top 6 defenceman).
Steen will get a look at the 3rd line center since Arny won't be back. Steen was a center with the Leafs before being traded here in 2008.

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07-15-2012, 10:28 AM
  #547
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Kyle Wellwood was re-signed by Winnipeg, just as I had predicted. Not that he was a viable option for The Blues, in any case. Personally, I don't think that The Blues will trade for a 3rd line centre, or pick up a scoring forward (unless a Top 7 forward is traded to obtain the left-handed Top 6 defenceman).

I have to disagree with you here.
I agree we aren't going to add a center(Steen or McDonald will get that position), but Army's been poking around Doan and Morrow and I think he gets a deal done for one of them at some point(should know where Doan's going by the end of next week).

I really think the plan is to grab another PF type winger so we can let McDonald go back to center with a bit of protection on his wings. We can then move D'Agostini, prospects and/or picks for a D man to play with Pietrangelo and then we call it an off-season.

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07-15-2012, 10:50 AM
  #548
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I have three bux that says Morrow stays in Dallas

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07-15-2012, 12:08 PM
  #549
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5 bucks says Armstrong adds someone of significance.

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07-15-2012, 12:19 PM
  #550
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5 bucks says Armstrong adds someone of significance.
amen!!! put your five with my three maybe we can get a good cheeseburger!!

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