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Wild sign Torrey Mitchell 3 years, $1.9M per

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07-02-2012, 12:38 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Bulmer, McMillan, McIntyre, Palmer, they were all here and got their looks last year(among others). If there was any faith in the latter 3 there would be a little more competition for spots, then again the deck shuffling last year indicated none of them were good enough to be full-time NHLers.

Its pretty obvious what Fletcher's 2 biggest mistakes were. It was poor talent evaluation, something I see here with this Torrey Mitchell signing. I don't care about Nick Johnson or Brad Staubitz, good riddance to both of them. They're just supporting my concerns about Torrey Mitchell.
I actually share your concerns about Mitchell, and think you can use Kobasew and Nystrom to support your argument. I just dont agree with you about Staubitz or Johnson.

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07-02-2012, 12:46 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Bulmer was in the CHL and ineligible for call ups. Palmer spent the season on IR. McIntyre was used as depth. McMillan spent much of the year on IR as well. If you think that "faith in Larsson and Palmieri" has anything to do with the Mitchell signing, I have a bridge to sell you.

It's extremely obvious, you reached a ridiculous conclusion, and are desperately trying to work backwards from it to conjure up justification for it. It's okay to let your ridiculous conclusion go. It won't kill you.
Bulmer got 9 games last year and was sent down, that's a look. Palmer/McIntyre/McMillan all played after any injuries they sustained.

The lack of faith isn't in Larsson or Bulmer. Its McMillan/Palmer/Palmieri/McIntyre/Rau that there's no faith in. 23-26 year olds, some of which are no longer waiver exempt that are going to have to knock off guys GMCF just gave 1-way deals to make this team. Faith in them would have them battling for a spot(or 2), rather than pushing out someone for a spot. Its no wonder Cody Almond signed in Switzerland.

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Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
It sounds like your saying that if a free agent signing doesn't get signed for a second contract it is a failure on GMCF. Do you really expect every free agent to continue playing for the Wild. Your logic doesn't make much sense. Sure some of the players we have picked up in FA didn't live up to expectations but they were mostly serviceable players for their role on the team. And when deemed expendable they are moved just like any other asset.

The whole goal of a GM is to get a solid core of players in all four lines that are certainly going to be apart of the team, then you fill out the rest of your lineup with young prospects as well as players that either come to you in trades or free agency. Free agents are not a certainty, especially when picking up role players like the ones Chuck has usually done. The whole problem is that we haven't had the depth in the Houston and that has exposed our 3rd and 4th liners when injuries occur. I would argue the only real mistake he has made was pinning the 2C position on Cullen which he obviously isn't.
Which is why you don't give 4th liners 3 year deals. He did it with Nystrom and he hasn't learned.

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07-02-2012, 12:47 AM
  #178
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I actually share your concerns about Mitchell, and think you can use Kobasew and Nystrom to support your argument. I just dont agree with you about Staubitz or Johnson.
Keep in mind, different coach, new system, one that everyone is on board with. These guys fit the system.

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07-02-2012, 12:53 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Bulmer got 9 games last year and was sent down, that's a look. Palmer/McIntyre/McMillan all played after any injuries they sustained.

The lack of faith isn't in Larsson or Bulmer. Its McMillan/Palmer/Palmieri/McIntyre/Rau that there's no faith in. 23-26 year olds, some of which are no longer waiver exempt that are going to have to knock off guys GMCF just gave 1-way deals to make this team. Faith in them would have them battling for a spot(or 2), rather than pushing out someone for a spot.
Bulmer was sent down because he could not be sent to the AHL and he needed seasoning. I don't know if you realize this, but he played a full year of hockey last year, and is a full year older.

Ignoring your inclusion of Palmieri in there, because it's inexplicable, you're actually openly advocating the "Edmonton method" of introducing prospects. That's a guaranteed recipe for disaster. You don't deliberately open up holes in your roster for some desperate hope a prospect will manage to step up and fill it. You construct your roster in a manner that allows you to have an NHL team in case no one steps up, but allows you to slide open spots in case someone does. If Bulmer, Larsson, Palmieri, Palmer, McIntyre, or McMillan earns a roster spot in camp, a third liner will slide down to the fourth, and Kassian/Veilleux will slide into healthy scratch mode. It's an intelligent way of building a roster, a way where you're left with an actual team regardless of outcome rather than desperately praying someone can step up and fill a spot because they need to.

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07-02-2012, 01:04 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Bulmer was sent down because he could not be sent to the AHL and he needed seasoning. I don't know if you realize this, but he played a full year of hockey last year, and is a full year older.

Ignoring your inclusion of Palmieri in there, because it's inexplicable, you're actually openly advocating the "Edmonton method" of introducing prospects. That's a guaranteed recipe for disaster. You don't deliberately open up holes in your roster for some desperate hope a prospect will manage to step up and fill it. You construct your roster in a manner that allows you to have an NHL team in case no one steps up, but allows you to slide open spots in case someone does. If Bulmer, Larsson, Palmieri, Palmer, McIntyre, or McMillan earns a roster spot in camp, a third liner will slide down to the fourth, and Kassian/Veilleux will slide into healthy scratch mode. It's an intelligent way of building a roster, a way where you're left with an actual team regardless of outcome rather than desperately praying someone can step up and fill a spot because they need to.
Fletcher knows enough about McMillan, Palmieri, Rau, Palmer, and McIntyre to decide if they were good enough to be full-time NHLers and decided they weren't, which is why they're signing guys. There is no problem with that.

Again, my problem is with the Torrey Mitchell contract. The 3 years at almost 2mil per for a guy who's career high is 10g. Awfully similar to Eric Nystrom, the guy Fletcher waived a year after giving him a 3/4.2M contract.

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07-02-2012, 01:06 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Fletcher knows enough about McMillan, Palmieri, Rau, Palmer, and McIntyre to decide if they were good enough to be full-time NHLers and decided they weren't, which is why they're signing guys. There is no problem with that.

Again, my problem is with the Torrey Mitchell contract. The 3 years at almost 2mil per for a guy who's career high is 10g. Awfully similar to Eric Nystrom, the guy Fletcher waived a year after giving him a 3/4.2M contract.
Nystrom played well enough for his position and pay until the Fedun incident. After that point he was just not the same player.

Also, Mitchell is a 3rd liner, possible second line tweener. Nystrom is not a comparable player in any way.

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07-02-2012, 01:07 AM
  #182
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one of our problems last year was being able to retrieve the puck on dump and chase efforts, hopefully mitchell can help with that.

not saying the 3 years is ideal, but im not upset with it either.

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07-02-2012, 01:07 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Fletcher knows enough about McMillan, Palmieri, Rau, Palmer, and McIntyre to decide if they were good enough to be full-time NHLers and decided they weren't, which is why they're signing guys. There is no problem with that.

Again, my problem is with the Torrey Mitchell contract. The 3 years at almost 2mil per for a guy who's career high is 10g. Awfully similar to Eric Nystrom, the guy Fletcher waived a year after giving him a 3/4.2M contract.
But whats your point? Fletcher has struck out on 3rd liners before so he shouldnt ever sign another one?

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07-02-2012, 01:09 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Nystrom played well enough for his position and pay until the Fedun incident. After that point he was just not the same player.

Also, Mitchell is a 3rd liner, possible second line tweener. Nystrom is not a comparable player in any way.
I gotta disagree with that. I see him as a good 3rd liner that I hope gets pushed to the 4th line.

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07-02-2012, 01:15 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Nystrom played well enough for his position and pay until the Fedun incident. After that point he was just not the same player.

Also, Mitchell is a 3rd liner, possible second line tweener. Nystrom is not a comparable player in any way.
In what world is a 20pt guy a 2nd liner? Nystrom scored 11 goals in 09-10, Mitchell scored 9 last year, Fedun/Foster incidents, they actually aren't all that different. I would say Mitchell's style is more comparable to Dan Fritsche, but he's been out of the league a few years.

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But whats your point? Fletcher has struck out on 3rd liners before so he shouldnt ever sign another one?
Shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun.

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07-02-2012, 01:21 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
In what world is a 20pt guy a 2nd liner? Nystrom scored 11 goals in 09-10, Mitchell scored 9 last year, Fedun/Foster incidents, they actually aren't all that different. I would say Mitchell's style is more comparable to Dan Fritsche, but he's been out of the league a few years.



Shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun.
Meh, I want my GM to figure out who he wants and then go get him.

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07-02-2012, 01:46 AM
  #187
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It seems like in the course of just over a year, we've gone from not enough depth to almost too much depth, at least in terms of our bottom six that is. It remains to be seen if guys like Coyle and Phillips would be able to handle a top 6 role should they be given one in the result of an injury to probably one of Bouchard/Koivu/Granlund.

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07-02-2012, 02:03 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
In what world is a 20pt guy a 2nd liner? Nystrom scored 11 goals in 09-10, Mitchell scored 9 last year, Fedun/Foster incidents, they actually aren't all that different. I would say Mitchell's style is more comparable to Dan Fritsche, but he's been out of the league a few years.
He's a tweener, capable of playing in the top 6 if you have such injuries that require him to fill the space. He won't contribute offensively in the top 6, but he won't torpedo the team in the short run either. That's why he's a tweener, and not a second liner.

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07-02-2012, 02:22 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
It seems like in the course of just over a year, we've gone from not enough depth to almost too much depth, at least in terms of our bottom six that is. It remains to be seen if guys like Coyle and Phillips would be able to handle a top 6 role should they be given one in the result of an injury to probably one of Bouchard/Koivu/Granlund.
Optimistic posts like this make me fustrated, cause you seem so down all the time.

I do however agree with your statement, and it's nice to actually have depth.

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07-02-2012, 02:44 AM
  #190
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Optimistic posts like this make me fustrated, cause you seem so down all the time.

I do however agree with your statement, and it's nice to actually have depth.
I'll go back to being pessimistic then. It seems that's what I'm good at.

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07-02-2012, 02:53 AM
  #191
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I'll go back to being pessimistic then. It seems that's what I'm good at.
Nooooooo !! I like the optimistic you !!! (song paying in his head:baby comeback...) #CreepyMcGuireMoment

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07-02-2012, 03:08 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
It seems like in the course of just over a year, we've gone from not enough depth to almost too much depth, at least in terms of our bottom six that is. It remains to be seen if guys like Coyle and Phillips would be able to handle a top 6 role should they be given one in the result of an injury to probably one of Bouchard/Koivu/Granlund.
Maybe that's the plan. Give the kids a chance to marinate in the minors and build some chemistry. Next year, Cullen and Bouchard fall off, so there's two openings. Granlund will be with the team this year, so next year will be a chance for Larsson, Coyle, Bulmer, and Zucker to earn their spot if they don't this year.

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07-02-2012, 03:09 AM
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I'll go back to being pessimistic then. It seems that's what I'm good at.
agreed.

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07-02-2012, 03:13 AM
  #194
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Maybe that's the plan. Give the kids a chance to marinate in the minors and build some chemistry. Next year, Cullen and Bouchard fall off, so there's two openings. Granlund will be with the team this year, so next year will be a chance for Larsson, Coyle, Bulmer, and Zucker to earn their spot if they don't this year.
Cullen will definitely be gone but if Bouchard can stay healthy this year (as unlikely a scenario it may be), I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back for another year or two, especially if he can put up around 50 pts or more.

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07-02-2012, 03:16 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Cullen will definitely be gone but if Bouchard can stay healthy this year (as unlikely a scenario it may be), I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back for another year or two, especially if he can put up around 50 pts or more.
Better get a big cut in pay!

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07-02-2012, 03:17 AM
  #196
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Bouchard has missed a lot of hockey in the past couple years. I think he needs to not only put a solid effort out on the ice (with a full healthy season) but that he needs the kids in Houston to struggle a little. If any of them get an audition with the big club and are able to impress, I think we let him walk next offseason.

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07-02-2012, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Cullen will definitely be gone but if Bouchard can stay healthy this year (as unlikely a scenario it may be), I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back for another year or two, especially if he can put up around 50 pts or more.
If Butch stays healthy and shows what he can do, then maybe use him as a trade chip. I want to see him succeed, just with another team that doesn't make the playoffs.

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07-02-2012, 03:20 AM
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Bouchard has missed a lot of hockey in the past couple years. I think he needs to not only put a solid effort out on the ice (with a full healthy season) but that he needs the kids in Houston to struggle a little. If any of them get an audition with the big club and are able to impress, I think we let him walk next offseason.
No chance he's re-signed. He's a concussion away from retirement and he can't play a bottom 6 role. If he gets through this season, he'll get a chance somewhere else.

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07-02-2012, 08:40 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
It seems like in the course of just over a year, we've gone from not enough depth to almost too much depth, at least in terms of our bottom six that is. It remains to be seen if guys like Coyle and Phillips would be able to handle a top 6 role should they be given one in the result of an injury to probably one of Bouchard/Koivu/Granlund.
Bottom 6 depth is not a problem, I think. The only thing is I want there to be enough depth in both the bottom 6 and top 6.

One of my biggest complaints about last season was that we constantly had bottom 6 players being moved up to play in the top 6 when those players have no business even trying to fill those roles.

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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Cullen will definitely be gone but if Bouchard can stay healthy this year (as unlikely a scenario it may be), I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back for another year or two, especially if he can put up around 50 pts or more.
If he can somehow stay healthy (which I highly doubt he will), and he can remain productive, I would be okay with a one or two year deal at a huge discount.

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Originally Posted by Timothy Freitag View Post
If Butch stays healthy and shows what he can do, then maybe use him as a trade chip. I want to see him succeed, just with another team that doesn't make the playoffs.
But this option sounds a lot better, honestly.

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07-02-2012, 08:45 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Bottom 6 depth is not a problem, I think. The only thing is I want there to be enough depth in both the bottom 6 and top 6.

One of my biggest complaints about last season was that we constantly had bottom 6 players being moved up to play in the top 6 when those players have no business even trying to fill those roles.
I think Phillips, Zucker, Coyle and even Foucault can chip in on our top six in case Bouchard hits his head on a pillow. And I really didn't mind Brodziak as our #2C last year.

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