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Official 2012 Coyotes Off-Season Thread (part 2)

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Old
08-25-2012, 05:42 PM
  #851
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If we can manage to hang onto Doan, I think a center is a bigger need than a wing.

Boedker-Vermette-Doan
Sullivan-Hanzal-Vrbata
Korpikoski-?????-Moss
Torres-Gordon-Johnson/Chipchura
Bissonnette

Unless management has higher hopes for Miele, Shinniman, or Martinook to make the team and contribute in a meaningful way as a center.

I do NOT want to see us use Gordon and Chipchura as our only two centers other than Vermette and Hanzal.

In a perfect world, we keep Doan, add a center AND grab another winger. Push Moss down to the 4th line with Torres and Gordon where he belongs, and replace Bissonnette with Chipchura as the 13th forward.

Doan, Connolly, and Kostitsyn would make me extremely happy.

Boedker-Vermette-Doan
Sullivan-Hanzal-Vrbata
Korpi-Connolly-Kostitsyn
Torres-Gordon-Moss
Chipchura

OEL-Michalek
Yandle-Morris
Klesla-Rundblad
Summers

Smith
LaBarbera


Last edited by rt: 08-25-2012 at 05:50 PM.
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Old
08-25-2012, 05:57 PM
  #852
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That would be great. I'd take Lomardi in that 3rd line center spot too. I also would't mind Petr Sykora.

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08-25-2012, 07:13 PM
  #853
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If we keep Doan, that means ownership will probably be resolved or close to it. If that's the case, i don't see dumpster diving or bargain shopping being our obejective.

Trade one of our defensmen and a roster player for a scoring center.

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08-25-2012, 07:23 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
If we keep Doan, that means ownership will probably be resolved or close to it. If that's the case, i don't see dumpster diving or bargain shopping being our obejective.

Trade one of our defensmen and a roster player for a scoring center.
If JIG buys the team I do not expect they will have a higher budget for GMDM to work under than the NHL gave him.

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08-26-2012, 01:17 AM
  #855
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I think I heard GMDM throw out Moss's name as someone he who has played center at one point... I don't think they're penciling him in there, but if someone goes down, he could probably step in.

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08-26-2012, 02:14 AM
  #856
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I think I heard GMDM throw out Moss's name as someone he who has played center at one point... I don't think they're penciling him in there, but if someone goes down, he could probably step in.
As they have done with Korpi over the years. Though the results have been less than stellar.

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08-26-2012, 03:25 AM
  #857
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I think I heard GMDM throw out Moss's name as someone he who has played center at one point... I don't think they're penciling him in there, but if someone goes down, he could probably step in.
A Flame fan posted that Moss was tried at center on their top line before he was injured. IMO, the Coyotes believe that Johnson will make the roster.
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If we keep Doan, that means ownership will probably be resolved or close to it. If that's the case, i don't see dumpster diving or bargain shopping being our objective.
If the league can guarantee that the Coyotes will play next season in Glendale, Doan is likely to stay for the season even if the ownership question isn't resolved.

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08-28-2012, 12:09 AM
  #858
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Tonight on the main forum I learned that Keith Yandle is actually a terrible defenseman and he apparently only plays "sheltered" minutes. It appears thirty seven point two of all minutes in a hockey game are sheltered. Yeah, it would seem that playing in the NHL is actually remarkably easy and basically anyone can do it. Who knew? Thanks main board! If anybody needs me, I will be training to take Yandle's job. I mean, I won't be training very hard, or anything. Why bother? Couple of push ups, a few raw eggs in a glass and a nice long nap. I'll be in the top ten in Norris voting in consecutive years in no time.

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08-28-2012, 12:14 AM
  #859
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Tonight on the main forum I learned that Keith Yandle is actually a terrible defenseman and he apparently only plays "sheltered" minutes. It appears thirty seven point two of all minutes in a hockey game are sheltered. Yeah, it would seem that playing in the NHL is actually remarkably easy and basically anyone can do it.
It's basically the hot **** statistic everyone loves. There is some validity to it but I wouldn't take it as gospel.

http://www.hockeyanalytics.com/Resea...harts_2012.pdf

Also for a 'stat' its extremely reliant on the human element of the coaches. I mean isn't it ya know, smart to put your best offensive defenseman out there against weak competition when you can? Points against those guys count too.

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08-28-2012, 12:23 AM
  #860
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Haha. It doesn't take into account the hockey aspect of hockey. So dumb.

Yes, it's nice to be the best offensive defenseman on a quality team chock full of defensive depth. A team where you can rack up a ton of pp minutes because there are plenty of capable, effective PKing blueliners to back you. A team where even the bottom pair is useful not only on special teams but also at even strength and can actually gobble up a good amount of tine against both top six and bottom six competition. Haha. I mean if he played for Edmonton, he'd be KILLING those stats. It's just so dumb.

He played the most minutes on one of the best teams, and he played sheltered minutes. Just try explaining that to Tyson Nash while pushing up your wire frame glasses and taking puffs from your inhaler. Haha.

(I don't mean "you" as in you, I mean those fans who will find any way possible to become a hockey experts without actually having to watch hockey games)

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08-28-2012, 12:44 AM
  #861
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Haha. It doesn't take into account the hockey aspect of hockey. So dumb.

Yes, it's nice to be the best offensive defenseman on a quality team chock full of defensive depth. A team where you can rack up a ton of pp minutes because there are plenty of capable, effective PKing blueliners to back you. A team where even the bottom pair is useful not only on special teams but also at even strength and can actually gobble up a good amount of tine against both top six and bottom six competition. Haha. I mean if he played for Edmonton, he'd be KILLING those stats. It's just so dumb.
That's a very good point about the team angle. Almost like you watch hockey games or something

I mean Schlemko is a relatively solid defender and he was paired with Klesla. On that chart he shows as a shutdown defender. No one in their right mind would acquire Schlemko in a trade or as a UFA to be principally a shut down guy. That's just the pair he ended up on based on the situation with the Morris/Yandle tandem being largely fixed and Aucoin guiding OEL.

Quote:
(I don't mean "you" as in you, I mean those fans who will find any way possible to become a hockey experts without actually having to watch hockey games)
Yeah I got that

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08-28-2012, 08:30 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
It's basically the hot **** statistic everyone loves. There is some validity to it but I wouldn't take it as gospel.

http://www.hockeyanalytics.com/Resea...harts_2012.pdf

Also for a 'stat' its extremely reliant on the human element of the coaches. I mean isn't it ya know, smart to put your best offensive defenseman out there against weak competition when you can? Points against those guys count too.
The people on the All-Star committee were apparently able to look past his "weak" competition.

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08-28-2012, 09:18 AM
  #863
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Plus, the mere thought that HALF of the minutes in an NHL game are "weak", or "sheltered", or "easy" is just so ****ing asinine.

Is Steve Stamkos not a number one center? I'm sure he doesn't line up against the other teams best and play a shut down role. Stamkos is sheltered and not a top center. Of course his numbers are good. He only plays easy minutes and gets top pp time. He sucks.

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08-28-2012, 09:34 AM
  #864
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As long as Hanzal plays against the top line and Coach Tip prefers Oliver playing 'D' then, Yandle will play 'sheltered minutes'! I also like the talk that it's the system they play and not the players that play in the system that make it work... no sense in arguing with that idiotic logic! Or Smith isn't that good because when he played with the Lightning he wasn't as effective, and to argue that point they bring up Brygalov (I remember warning the Flyer fans that he was flaky and question how effective he would be in that environment, I wonder if he wishes he could be traded back to the Coyotes).

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08-28-2012, 10:25 AM
  #865
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I think the system has a lot to do with Smith's success but it's not the end all be all. LaBarbera has all of the physical tools necessary to be an excellent goalie and is still god awful, even playing in the same system Smith does.

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08-28-2012, 10:36 AM
  #866
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As long as Hanzal plays against the top line and Coach Tip prefers Oliver playing 'D' then, Yandle will play 'sheltered minutes'! I also like the talk that it's the system they play and not the players that play in the system that make it work... no sense in arguing with that idiotic logic! Or Smith isn't that good because when he played with the Lightning he wasn't as effective, and to argue that point they bring up Brygalov (I remember warning the Flyer fans that he was flaky and question how effective he would be in that environment, I wonder if he wishes he could be traded back to the Coyotes).
Perhaps the goalie does benefit a little from the system but I think Bryz and Smith both benefited from Burke. Bryz mentally, in my opinion does not have the toughness to be solid when he has to be in, the playoffs. His first playoff year against Detroit he played ok, but not great, second year against Detroit , he was awful. I remember GMDM earlier this year saying he thought Detroit got in his head a little bit. He wasn't being harsh when he said it, just an observation.

Bryz was awful again in the playoffs for the Flyers this year. I know he played well for a stretch of the season, but he has been average one year and below average the last 2 years in the playoffs. For this reason, I think the flyers have little chance of advancing very far in the playoffs 2013.

Smith on the other hand benefited from Burke, played well in the regular season, but also played well in the playoffs. I think he is mentally much tougher then Bryz. I also think his wacks at King players in front of the net were a good thing in that it sent a message to his own team about his toughness, and willingness to take a stand if needed. I think he needs to stay away from it in the future, dumb penalties are not good, but the message was a good one.

I have seen several predictions of the coyotes missing the playoffs this year. I for one think we have one of the best D corps and Goalie combinations in the NHL, and for that reason alone, we will make the playoffs again. The NHL is more about goal tending and good D then it has ever been, and even more so in the playoffs. Tip and GMDM will figure out a way to manufacture points and pick up some needed forwards at the right price and time, of course.

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08-28-2012, 11:19 AM
  #867
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I also think his wacks at King players in front of the net were a good thing in that it sent a message to his own team about his toughness, and willingness to take a stand if needed. I think he needs to stay away from it in the future, dumb penalties are not good, but the message was a good one.
... I was actually good with that 427, the whacking. He's got a long fuse so it wasnt exactly spontaneous (though it looked that way). He's a sharp cookie. Very calm. Excellent with the stick, good skater (unlike about 60% of the goalies in the league), plays the angles to a 'T'. You want your Goaltender to be aggressive, actually taking the odd penalty & getting assists for playing up to the rush in clearing the defensive zone. Seeing the entire ice surface. Headmanning the puck to a high forward. Smith does that & more. He's a good one, special. All of the greats, from Plante to Hall, Parent to Billy Smith, Belfour to Hasek etc were all Lumberjacks to varying degree's. Critical part of the greats make-ups. Hating gettin beat, fighting for your life to keep the puck out, making sure the opposition knows your in control of your zone & the defenceman who play in front of you. Penalties you take, then stone em'.

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08-28-2012, 01:56 PM
  #868
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Perhaps the goalie does benefit a little from the system but I think Bryz and Smith both benefited from Burke. Bryz mentally, in my opinion does not have the toughness to be solid when he has to be in, the playoffs. His first playoff year against Detroit he played ok, but not great, second year against Detroit , he was awful. I remember GMDM earlier this year saying he thought Detroit got in his head a little bit. He wasn't being harsh when he said it, just an observation.

Bryz was awful again in the playoffs for the Flyers this year. I know he played well for a stretch of the season, but he has been average one year and below average the last 2 years in the playoffs. For this reason, I think the flyers have little chance of advancing very far in the playoffs 2013.

Smith on the other hand benefited from Burke, played well in the regular season, but also played well in the playoffs. I think he is mentally much tougher then Bryz. I also think his wacks at King players in front of the net were a good thing in that it sent a message to his own team about his toughness, and willingness to take a stand if needed. I think he needs to stay away from it in the future, dumb penalties are not good, but the message was a good one.
Couldn't have said it myself. I hate it when other people dismiss Phoenix as a goaltenders nirvana, where any scrub can suddenly become a Vezina candidate - the goalies still need to step up and make the big saves. Bryz had his best years here, but his compete level is below Smitty's by quite a significant margin. And although Smith does need to exercise a little caution, I love his fiery demeanor and toughness. He's a gamer who won't take any BS from the other team. Hopefully he continues to pull through for us when we need him, and hopefully we can lock him up for the long term.

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08-28-2012, 02:17 PM
  #869
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Haha. It doesn't take into account the hockey aspect of hockey. So dumb.

Yes, it's nice to be the best offensive defenseman on a quality team chock full of defensive depth. A team where you can rack up a ton of pp minutes because there are plenty of capable, effective PKing blueliners to back you. A team where even the bottom pair is useful not only on special teams but also at even strength and can actually gobble up a good amount of tine against both top six and bottom six competition. Haha. I mean if he played for Edmonton, he'd be KILLING those stats. It's just so dumb.

He played the most minutes on one of the best teams, and he played sheltered minutes. Just try explaining that to Tyson Nash while pushing up your wire frame glasses and taking puffs from your inhaler. Haha.

(I don't mean "you" as in you, I mean those fans who will find any way possible to become a hockey experts without actually having to watch hockey games)
It isn't necessarily the sheltered minutes argument, it is that his offensive accomplishments come against weaker (relative) opponents. So, the argument that he should be playing as part of the top 2 defensemen seems quite questionable. The likelihood is that his offensive and defensive stats would diminish by playing against top lines. I think I made that argument previously when discussing what happened last year in 2011 when Jovo was out with the fractured jaw. Yandle's offensive output dropped considerably.

Use this in terms of why i've been an advocate of trading Yandle. While this does not tell the entire story, it does say that we are paying a guy excess of $5 million for what I would consider to be a modest output. Yandle is better against slightly weaker competition, so his stats would elevate some when given those opportunities. The problem is that we can't guarantee that other teams will be able to pit their "less productive" lines against Yandle. And that is why we will consistently see about 25-35 points in 5-on-5 production, and the ability of him to break the 60 and 70 point barrier is a direct reflection of PP contribution. That is why it makes sense to trade what is essentially a very good 3/4 d-man in Yandle to a team that thinks he can be a #1 for them. The other team gives up assets that pertain to a #1 d-man, while we give up a non-#1 d-man.

If that still doesn't show where things lie, watch the playoff series on Wednesday. Any time you see a defenseman make a pass that is completed and does not slow the offense down (meaning the pass is in a location that we have to re-group before taking the puck in the offensive zone), give the player a grade of 1. If the pass is still received, or the play is a pass across ice to change the angle of attack, give no points, and assume the D-man made the best play possible. If the D-man sends a pass that is intercepted, or far out of reach of the intended target, give him a negative point.

I did this for the 3rd period and OT of game 2 against Chicago. You will understand which players help continue the flow of the game, and which players have a penchant rate for not making the best decisions with the puck. I will say that Yandle did not finish in the top 2 when all of these scores are totalled, and Aucoin finished last (we were also playing with 5 d-men due to injury).

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08-29-2012, 12:57 PM
  #870
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Plus, the mere thought that HALF of the minutes in an NHL game are "weak", or "sheltered", or "easy" is just so ****ing asinine.

Is Steve Stamkos not a number one center? I'm sure he doesn't line up against the other teams best and play a shut down role. Stamkos is sheltered and not a top center. Of course his numbers are good. He only plays easy minutes and gets top pp time. He sucks.
I'm not sure what this team has to do to get its fair share of credit. How about get to Round 3 of the playoffs? Oh wait...

I guess our players will just have to bask in the luxury of not worrying about the pressures that come with playing in the spotlight

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08-29-2012, 02:19 PM
  #871
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We've enjoyed the "underdog" role for the past several years, no reason to change now.

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08-29-2012, 02:26 PM
  #872
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I can't believe Turris got an insane 5 year deal.

**** that piece of ****.

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08-29-2012, 02:40 PM
  #873
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I can't believe Turris got an insane 5 year deal.

**** that piece of ****.
3.5. What a joke!

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08-29-2012, 03:07 PM
  #874
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Not our problem!

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08-29-2012, 04:02 PM
  #875
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If we can manage to hang onto Doan, I think a center is a bigger need than a wing.

Boedker-Vermette-Doan
Sullivan-Hanzal-Vrbata
Korpikoski-?????-Moss
Torres-Gordon-Johnson/Chipchura
Bissonnette

Unless management has higher hopes for Miele, Shinniman, or Martinook to make the team and contribute in a meaningful way as a center.

I do NOT want to see us use Gordon and Chipchura as our only two centers other than Vermette and Hanzal.

In a perfect world, we keep Doan, add a center AND grab another winger. Push Moss down to the 4th line with Torres and Gordon where he belongs, and replace Bissonnette with Chipchura as the 13th forward.

Doan, Connolly, and Kostitsyn would make me extremely happy.

Boedker-Vermette-Doan
Sullivan-Hanzal-Vrbata
Korpi-Connolly-Kostitsyn
Torres-Gordon-Moss
Chipchura

OEL-Michalek
Yandle-Morris
Klesla-Rundblad
Summers

Smith
LaBarbera
I agree with everything but Connolly, I would rather sign one of Jochen Hecht or Brendan Morrison, let Gordon stay on the 3rd line and put one of the 2 of them on the 4th. I have never cared much for Connolly and he is injury prone. Not that Hecht or Morrison are much of an upgrade but I feel we can have them cheaper and wont have to give something up for them. Its not like its going to hurt cap space but I just feel he wont be any more of an asset than the other 2 and they wont cost us picks.

Figured I would throw an edit in here because I thought of a trade I personally could accept. Should Doan not resign with Phoenix maybe we can get Montreal to do a deal. Scott Gomez (4th line center) and Erik Cole (slots in where Doan was with Vermette and Boedker) for Chris Summers and David Schlemko. This isn't a trade to help our cap space, though in the end it could, its really just a trade to get Erik Cole, and we take a chance that Gomez can become a high point player again. Gomez only has 2 years left on his contract and makes 5.5 million (sucks) this year and 4.5 (still sucks) next year, I would require that Montreal covers a certain amount of the actual cost of Gomezs contract in order to make it happen but adding him wouldn't scare me if they did. If he can play average defense and maintain point totals in the 50s then I don't see this as a bad move, though certainly a risk. Cole is the prize in the package, a cap hit of 4.5 while only making 4 the next 3 years. Minus the leadership qualities of Doan, Cole is in my opinion the perfect replacement for Doan. Its certainly not going to hurt us. We will have 8 guys to resign next year instead of 10 because of the loss of Summers and Schlemko, and of those 8, OEL and Boedker will likely cost the most, followed by Stone, Gordon, and Korpikoski. Might make things tight but I certainly think its doable and at the cost of Summers and Schlemko for Cole and a cap hit player that could refind his game I would be happy.

Just to be clear Im mostly against bringing in Gomez however if a deal could be worked out to get Cole for cheap and Montreal to cover a certain portion on the actual cost of the Gomez contract than I would be all for it. Just a thought..


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