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[OTT/CBJ] Nick Foligno for Marc Methot

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Old
07-01-2012, 05:13 PM
  #226
GoBlue99
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
I don't think it's terrible for Sens like everyone is saying here, Methot is underrated.
I agree. As a Senators fan I like this trade. People are overrating Foligno big time here; he's a 3rd line energy guy at best.

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07-01-2012, 05:17 PM
  #227
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As a Leafs fan, I approve.

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07-01-2012, 05:24 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
I read it, it was just completely wrong, I thought I made that quite clear? If Murray could have signed one that easily, he would have.
No, you didn't, because you stated that I called Foligno "spectacular" which I didn't.

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You're the one who said you knew this didn't work out for Ottawa, so really you should just be a GM, you could make a ton of money (if you weren't always both arrogant and wrong, like in this case. Never a good combo).
I know it won't work out because Foligno is young, still has potential, and is a more valuable player and harder player to come by than an ok 3rd pairing defenseman that is only slightly above average in all facets of the game. I've seen Methot play A HELL OF A LOT MORE than you have, and your GM traded for a guy that he could have easily signed. Zanon, Allen, all better defenseman, albeit that would have cost more, but are way more effective in their positions as well. There are probably others still out there that could give you the same kind of productivity.

Coming from someone who goes around on HF with the usertag "The Expert" you sure don't watch a whole lot of hockey outside of Ottawa, and you don't know much about the player your team just traded for. However, I'm always wrong and arrogant, and you've watched this guy play MAYBE a handful of games in your entire life.

The irony is killing me. Remove your head from your ass the next time you post.

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07-01-2012, 05:26 PM
  #229
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I like the trade. Calm down everyone it's pretty fair value.

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07-01-2012, 05:38 PM
  #230
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An Ottawa boy who has averaged 135+ hits the last 4 years and he will 70% less in the penalty box than Carkner.

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07-01-2012, 05:38 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Alfieforever11 View Post
I like the trade. Calm down everyone it's pretty fair value.
I'll disagree there.

I just think Columbus won the trade, and Ottawa DID NOT HAVE TO(sorry for the bold, underline and italicized - this point seems to be slipping from the minds of some) trade Foligno for a defenseman of that stature.

I've had access to out of market games since before Columbus even entered the league. Now while admittedly, they aren't the team I watch the most outside the Rangers, I've seen more than enough of Methot to know that you guys could have signed another defenseman on the UFA market that could have given you AT LEAST comparable production back there.

He's not bad by any means, but he just isn't good to great at any single aspect of the game. He's your average 3rd pairing defenseman. He won't look lost out there, won't run around like a chicken with his head cutoff like some of the other Ottawa posters have said their defense has looked like this year but at the same time, he's not going to be a ROCK-SOLID defender.

I just think that help could have been acquired another way and that if it HAD TO BE Foligno that you could have gotten more for him.

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07-01-2012, 05:54 PM
  #232
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Everyone calling Foligno a top 6 power forward is nuts. He's a middle 6 grinder with offensive "promise." He's basically a slower Mike Fisher without the stellar defensive abilities.

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07-01-2012, 05:59 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by McFist View Post
Everyone calling Foligno a top 6 power forward is nuts. He's a middle 6 grinder with offensive "promise." He's basically a slower Mike Fisher without the stellar defensive abilities.
Foligno is able to put up 40-50 points, while pissing off the other team. Those players aren't very easy to come by.

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07-01-2012, 06:01 PM
  #234
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As a Leafs fan, I approve.
You won't approve once you have to play him.

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07-01-2012, 06:08 PM
  #235
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What is Ottawa doing, they were one of my favorites teams last year, playing with a ton of grit and now they lose Carkner, Konopka and Foligno. Murray is so strange he goes from stupid to genius to stupid to genius so many times, he's hard to follow. He's the GM equivalent of Boris Elstine.

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07-01-2012, 06:13 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
No, you didn't, because you stated that I called Foligno "spectacular" which I didn't.
I never said that actually, care to show me where? You said Methot was unspectacular and that the Sens lost the trade, when Foligno is completely unspectacular himself.


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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
I know it won't work out. I've seen Methot play A HELL OF A LOT MORE than you have, and your GM traded for a guy that he could have easily signed. Zanon, Allen, all better defenseman, albeit that would have cost more, but are way more effective in their positions as well. There are probably others still out there that could give you the same kind of productivity.
You're killing me, really. How many times have I seen him play? Do you keep a log of how often we both watch individual players play? You should probably watch Bryan Allen play a lot more too before saying that.


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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Coming from someone who goes around on HF with the usertag "The Expert" you sure don't watch a whole lot of hockey outside of Ottawa, and you don't know much about the player your team just traded for. However, I'm always wrong and arrogant, and you've watched this guy play MAYBE a handful of games in your entire life.

The irony is killing me. Remove your head from your ass the next time you post.
So angry. Awful being wrong isn't it?

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07-01-2012, 06:14 PM
  #237
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This thread made me look back at all of Murray's trades since being made GM of the Sens.


1. Shean Donovan for Peter Schaefer. The Senators saved money and Sens fans would probably do it again. No huge benefit to Senators, Schaefer was pretty much done and was overpaid. Even

2. Commodore + Stillman for Corvo + Eaves. Eaves hasn't really been anything more than 4th liner and Corvo was turning into a cancer and NEEDED to be moved. Stillman played great for the Sens, and Commodore was middling but neither was retained. Better play Vs. small longterm benefit. Pretty even.

3. Lapointe for a 6th rounder (Minor Trade, no one wins)
5th rounder for Brian Mcgratton (Minor Trade, no one wins)

4. Kuba + Picard + 1st for Meszaros. Both Kuba and Meszaros are now getting paid the same salary. Kind of interesting. Kuba gave the Sens 2.5 good seasons and a bad one. Meszaros was middling and was eventually traded a second time for a 2nd rounder pick. Murray got a first rounder so I'd call this a Win

5. Ryan Shannon for Lawrence Nycholat. Minor win. Got an NHLer for an AHLer
Drew Fata for Alex Nikulin (Minor Trade, no one wins)

6. Mike Comrie + Chris Campoli for Dean Mcammond + 1st (Kyle Palmieri). Neither Comrie or Campoli were great. Although the pick only turned into Kyle Palmieri, it's still probably a loss because Campoli never turned out for the Sens and Comrie was bad.

7. Pascal Leclaire + 2nd for Antoinne Vermette. Depends on who you ask. Leclaire never got healthy but the 2nd turned into Lehner. Vermette had a good season for C-Bus and was eventually traded for a 2nd and a 5th. No one really won the trade.

8. Michalek + Chechoo + 2nd for Heatley + 5th. Who won this trade depends entirely on who you ask. Murray didn't get a great return, and Cheecho never returned to form, but Michalek has been great and has more Goals than Heatley in the past two seasons. Calling this trade anything but even will only lead to bloodshed.

9. Matt Cullen for Picard + 2nd. Deadline deal. Cullen played well. Even
Andy Sutton for 2nd Deadline, Sutton played mediocre. Even

10. Rundblad for 1st round pick (Vladimir Tarasenko). Both Rundblad and the player selected with the pick have done well. Kind of a lateral move.

11. Craig Anderson for Brian Elliott. A+ trade, would do again. Elliot, despite his recent success wasn't even retained by the Avs while Anderson has performed admirably. Win


New(ish) trades:

12. 1st for Fisher. Fisher has been great for Nashville and Ottawa's pick is turning out. Even so far.

13. 2nd for Kelly. Kelly played well and the Bruins won a cup. Too early to tell.

14. 2nd + Poutlny for Campoli + 7th. Too early to tell. Helped recoup some of the loss incurred by getting Campoli. Campoli wasn't resigned by Chicago.

15 7th for Kovalev. Kovalev had no market. kind of a minor trade in retrospect.

16. Lee for Gilroy. Lee was re-signed, Gilroy was not. I'd say Murray lost this one. Minor benefit trade however, like the Shannon trade Murray arguably won.

17. Rundbald + 2nd for Turris. Turris did great for Ottawa this season while Rundblad was sent down by Phoenix and was inconsistent. Much more time is needed and Ottawa included more assets. No one wins yet.

18. Bishop for 2nd Rounder . Too early to tell, solved a huge hole though.




Overall, there's a good mix of blockbuster and minor deals in there. It's hard to evaluate given the picks involved and who they were sued to draft.

From my perspective, Murray's trading history is pretty even. His player evaluation is excellent, but his skills as a negotiator leave something to be desired.

Imagine going to a car dealership. Murray would probably pay the sticker price for a new car without negotiating, but picks up a car that he drives for 20 years because he knows so much about cars.....is that good or bad?

He's generally "right" about the players he picks up, but he often gives up significant assets in return for them. The Vermette, Heatley, and Meszaros trades could have been a disaster, but Ottawa didn't really "lose" any of them.

I'm sure someone else will have a different perspective. But to me, I think both Methot and Foligno will do alright for their respective teams and in 3-4 years both teams will be under bale to say who "won" the trade.

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07-01-2012, 06:18 PM
  #238
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Columbus comes out on the good end of a deal for once.

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07-01-2012, 06:21 PM
  #239
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I watched Methot play in Syracuse years ago, and have been watching his progression on Columbus every now and then. The Senators will get a very reliable defenseman on a good contract. To sign someone of Methot's ilk in free agency would have cost Murray more in cap hit and cap hit is a commodity.

It sucks to lose an energy player like Foligno because he is a good bottom six forward that can help out in the top six whenever an injury occurs. Both teams got the player they wanted, but it will be hard to lose Foligno as he will be harder to replace down the road for what he brings to the team.

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07-01-2012, 06:31 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
I never said that actually, care to show me where? You said Methot was unspectacular and that the Sens lost the trade, when Foligno is completely unspectacular himself.
"If you watched as much of Ottawa as you claim, you'd be aware Foligno is quite unspectacular himself."

Really, what does that imply? If you're not implying that I said so, why write that?

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You're killing me, really. How many times have I seen him play? Do you keep a log of how often we both watch individual players play? You should probably watch Bryan Allen play a lot more too before saying that.
No, because it's painfully clear that you haven't seen either him or Bryan Allen play. If my analysis on those two is so wrong, instead of trolling me, care to provide a better one?

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So angry. Awful being wrong isn't it?
LMFAO, what are you 15?

Keep attempting to psycho-analyze me. Word of advice, however, don't quit your day job. You're as piss-awful at it as you are evaluating players and being an "Expert" on HF.

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07-01-2012, 06:31 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Gil Gunderson View Post
Foligno is able to put up 40-50 points, while pissing off the other team. Those players aren't very easy to come by.
He's done that once so far, numbers-wise, and he isn't really that much of an agitator.

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07-01-2012, 06:33 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
It sucks to lose an energy player like Foligno because he is a good bottom six forward that can help out in the top six whenever an injury occurs. Both teams got the player they wanted, but it will be hard to lose Foligno as he will be harder to replace down the road for what he brings to the team.
Sums up my feelings on him nicely.

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07-01-2012, 06:45 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
The thing with Foligno is that he's wildly inconsistent. Some nights he looks like an all world player, some nights he just plain sucks and I think Murray got sick of waiting. Methot will hopefully fill a need as a big shutdown defender, but I'm waiting to hear more about him from C-Bus fans.
Here's a take from a Columbus fan. Methot is a very solid defensive defenseman with a lot of potential. He's a very good skater who pivots very well. He should easily become a strong 2nd pairing guy and with good coaching could become a top pairing guy.

I think this trade ends up even because both teams fill a pressing need. Columbus has a glut of blue liners and an expansion team forward group if Nash is traded. Ottawa needs some defensive depth, and yet has depth up front.

This looks like win/win to me.

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07-01-2012, 06:49 PM
  #244
The Amity Affliction
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Originally Posted by McFist View Post
He's done that once so far, numbers-wise, and he isn't really that much of an agitator.
I would agree, but would also argue that he agitates not by design, but just because of his style of play when he's on his game.

However, I see 50+ point potential under A good coach in the right situation.

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07-01-2012, 06:49 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
Here's a take from a Columbus fan. Methot is a very solid defensive defenseman with a lot of potential. He's a very good skater who pivots very well. He should easily become a strong 2nd pairing guy and with good coaching could become a top pairing guy.

I think this trade ends up even because both teams fill a pressing need. Columbus has a glut of blue liners and an expansion team forward group if Nash is traded. Ottawa needs some defensive depth, and yet has depth up front.

This looks like win/win to me.
Sound reasoning here. I think once the season gets underway it'll end up looking that way, but until then fans are gonna holler about everything.

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Old
07-01-2012, 06:51 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
I watched Methot play in Syracuse years ago, and have been watching his progression on Columbus every now and then. The Senators will get a very reliable defenseman on a good contract. To sign someone of Methot's ilk in free agency would have cost Murray more in cap hit and cap hit is a commodity.

It sucks to lose an energy player like Foligno because he is a good bottom six forward that can help out in the top six whenever an injury occurs. Both teams got the player they wanted, but it will be hard to lose Foligno as he will be harder to replace down the road for what he brings to the team.
I'll miss his energy however speaking of production, he scored 14 goals and was on a very offensive team. I'm hoping Noesen can fill that role, although that is very premature. Zibanejad, Methot should definetly add some sandpaper to the lineup though.

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07-01-2012, 06:51 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
Here's a take from a Columbus fan. Methot is a very solid defensive defenseman with a lot of potential. He's a very good skater who pivots very well. He should easily become a strong 2nd pairing guy and with good coaching could become a top pairing guy.

I think this trade ends up even because both teams fill a pressing need. Columbus has a glut of blue liners and an expansion team forward group if Nash is traded. Ottawa needs some defensive depth, and yet has depth up front.

This looks like win/win to me.
I don't think Methot has top pairing potential. Could he be a decent #4? Possibly, in the right situation.

Then again, Aaron Ward played #1 minutes for Carolina in 2006, so people will attempt to twist the definition of #1 defenseman to what they see as fitting.

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07-01-2012, 06:53 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
I would agree, but would also argue that he agitates not by design, but just because of his style of play when he's on his game.

However, I see 50+ point potential under A good coach in the right situation.
Well he's been showing that potential for a few years, and like somebody else said, it seems like Murray got tired of waiting. And the key thing you said is "when he's on his game," which has always seemed to be about every second game. I agree about his style being agitating, but it's just as agitating for fans, watching him draw dumb penalties, and threatening to score but always managing to come up just short.

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07-01-2012, 06:53 PM
  #249
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Have to say, this is a bit of a weird one from Ottawa's perspective. They could have easily gotten another guy for an easy pick here or there.

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07-01-2012, 06:56 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
Here's a take from a Columbus fan. Methot is a very solid defensive defenseman with a lot of potential. He's a very good skater who pivots very well. He should easily become a strong 2nd pairing guy and with good coaching could become a top pairing guy.

I think this trade ends up even because both teams fill a pressing need. Columbus has a glut of blue liners and an expansion team forward group if Nash is traded. Ottawa needs some defensive depth, and yet has depth up front.

This looks like win/win to me.
That sounds good to me personally, especially with MacLean coaching. If he can step in and be an effective 2nd pairing, left handed guy, then I'll be really.

Thanks for the assessment.

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