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[OTT/CBJ] Nick Foligno for Marc Methot

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Old
07-02-2012, 01:06 PM
  #301
ponder
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I don't really get this for Ottawa. Yes, they need defensive depth, but Methot is pretty "meh," a very mediocre 2nd to 3rd pairing defensive dman. He's also 27 while Foligno is 24, and he gets injured a lot. Nick Foligno always seemed to play really well in the games I watched, he's maturing into a good 2nd line winger with plenty of grit, just seems like a young/promising player who you'd want to keep around. It's not like Ottawa have tonnes of wing depth either, they were using scrubs like Colin Greening on the 1st line for god's sake, and Alfie isn't getting any younger.

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07-02-2012, 01:10 PM
  #302
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I'm usually a big fan of everything our GM does, until now. Unless of course he is just making room for Semin..

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07-02-2012, 01:20 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
and he gets injured a lot
The guy was out last year from a broken jaw. He had a puck deflected into his face. You're acting like he has brittle bone syndrome or something. Just unfortunate situations, not like he's porcelain.

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07-02-2012, 01:21 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I don't really get this for Ottawa. Yes, they need defensive depth, but Methot is pretty "meh," a very mediocre 2nd to 3rd pairing defensive dman. He's also 27 while Foligno is 24, and he gets injured a lot. Nick Foligno always seemed to play really well in the games I watched, he's maturing into a good 2nd line winger with plenty of grit, just seems like a young/promising player who you'd want to keep around. It's not like Ottawa have tonnes of wing depth either, they were using scrubs like Colin Greening on the 1st line for god's sake, and Alfie isn't getting any younger.
They actually will soon, with Silfverberg, Stone and Zibanejad on the way, who all easily have more upside than Foligno. Also, add in Latendresse, and also Regin who missed the whole season last year. There is simply no room for all these players, and someone had to go. Foligno is a good player, and is effective at what he does, but he's a fringe 3rd/2nd line player. He doesn't have the offensive instincts to be a true top 6 on a good team.

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07-02-2012, 01:24 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Foligno is a 40 point 10-15 goal guy. I think 5 of his 15 were empty nets this year. The real problem with Foligno is that he can play one game like a first liner and the next 3 like a third liner.

He has flashes of high end skill but is extremely inconsistent. His physical play and agitator around the net are great. He can fall victim of trying to do to much but when it works out he usually comes up with a scoring chance.

It's been highly debated were he really slots in but basically he is a decent second third line tweener that leaves you wanting more.

I would be surprised if he got 50 points next year expect 35 to 45.
If Foligno had that many empty net goals doesn't that speak to the trust the coach put in having him on the ice at the end of the game? Isn't that for your most responsible players? I like hearing that. As for the 1st line one day, 3rd line the next. That's not atypical of young players. I don't expect Foligno to light the world on fire (We CBJ fans leave that for Viqsi ) but I do think he'll be a solid addition and at the expense of a bad contract and likely bottom pair d-man in Columbus.

It's a good trade for both teams getting solid players to fill needs.

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07-02-2012, 01:55 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I don't really get this for Ottawa. Yes, they need defensive depth, but Methot is pretty "meh," a very mediocre 2nd to 3rd pairing defensive dman. He's also 27 while Foligno is 24, and he gets injured a lot. Nick Foligno always seemed to play really well in the games I watched, he's maturing into a good 2nd line winger with plenty of grit, just seems like a young/promising player who you'd want to keep around. It's not like Ottawa have tonnes of wing depth either, they were using scrubs like Colin Greening on the 1st line for god's sake, and Alfie isn't getting any younger.
Foligno played on the 2nd line, but he's far from 2nd line quality. Much better suited to being a 3rd C than anything else. It's true his grit might have helped you notice him in the games you watched - but it was pretty clear to the organization that he wasn't going to take that step to be a consistent scorer. The idea that he just needed ice time or better linemates is bogus. As long as Foligno has been here he's been frustratingly streaky, putting up 15 game goalless stretches while playing with guys like Turris and Alfie. I love what Foligno brought to the team, but he's consistently been the kind of guy that can wow you with a skill play in training camp, but can't put it together as a regular scorer.

Ottawa has too many prospects lining up along the wings, guys like Stone, Zibanejad and Noesen are pushing for spots - and all bring the same physicality of Foligno, but potentially with more offensive upside. Foligno couldn't even with the 3rd C spot off Smith - now HF posters are pimping him out as a young 2nd line quality player!??!?!

Foligno was a great community guy and one of the most driven players on the team. He'll provide good depth for CBJ. But Smith made him expendable.

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Old
07-02-2012, 01:56 PM
  #307
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Foligno is overrtaed on HF. In case anyone thinks im saying this out of spite, check my post history on the guy... I've always thought that.

Foligno is a THIRD liner with some skill that allows him to be a borderline 2nd liner. He's coming off a career year, and is likely commanding more money than he's worth (I wouldnt pay a penny over 3.000 for him). His average over the last 4 seasons is 35 points (I prorated his season in which he got 26pts in 61 games, to 33 points in 80 games). He's ridiculously inconsistant, and thats why he scores 5 goals in 8 games, and then goas on 15 game goalless droughts... Well, 3 goals in his last 30 games for example.

It's not like he is a 20yr old with major upside and untapped potential. This is as good as he's going to be. More ice time and better chemistry might help him, but to Ottawa, he was a 40pt guy on a good year.

Ottawa has an abundance of top 9 (6?) prospects anyways.

Methot is something Ottawa didn't have enough of, and they needed a partner for Karlsson, and he fits the bill.

To me, Foligno had more trade value than Methot, but it was an even trade given the team needs. Basically, its a win-win IMHO

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07-02-2012, 02:12 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I just don't get it though. Why let Kuba and Carkner walk and then trade Foligno for Methot and then sign Latendresse?

This absolutely makes us a worse hockey team and it's very frustrating. Downgraded from Kuba to Methot and downgraded from Foligno to Latendresse.

Not seeing it.
Go back and read a few of the good comments for an explanation as to why this is a good trade for Ottawa. You'll see the light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
So what you are saying is that the Murrays drafted too many forwards, then had to deal a solid forward for a decent Dman, because they had 0 depth(especially after the awful Lee/Gilroy trade) to make room for the forward prospects that may/may not pan out??

Makes sense... Like somebody mentioned on the Sens board... one step forward....2 steps back
At the time we had a desperate need for forwards. Last year's draft took care of that. As time goes by, your needs change and opportunities arise. Turris became available but to acquire him, we'd have to let Rundblad go. That changed things quite a bit.

I also think the success of this team last season took management by surprise. The ressurgence of the defense was unexpected. I think Year 2 of the rebuilding was to focus on replenishing our defense core but given we were playoff bound and Kuba playing so well, Murray was forced to keep him rather than keeping the rebuilding course... at least, as far as the defense was concerned.

I agree the Lee trade wasn't Murray's best but Murray has had to make alot more moves than most GM but overall, he's made more good moves than bad ones. So it's more like two steps forward, one step back. We'll get there.

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Originally Posted by tmg View Post
Sad that this happened on the same day they let a 67s alum (Konopka) and a local tough (Carkner) walk. They don't seem to be especially consistent with their quest-for-local-content.
Montreal got in trouble when they put too much focus on putting together a roster full of french-speaking players. While it's nice to see some local content on the team, Ottawa needs to stick with putting the best line-up together, no matter the players' origins.

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Old
07-02-2012, 03:16 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
Foligno is overrtaed on HF. In case anyone thinks im saying this out of spite, check my post history on the guy... I've always thought that.

Foligno is a THIRD liner with some skill that allows him to be a borderline 2nd liner. He's coming off a career year, and is likely commanding more money than he's worth (I wouldnt pay a penny over 3.000 for him). His average over the last 4 seasons is 35 points (I prorated his season in which he got 26pts in 61 games, to 33 points in 80 games). He's ridiculously inconsistant, and thats why he scores 5 goals in 8 games, and then goas on 15 game goalless droughts... Well, 3 goals in his last 30 games for example.

It's not like he is a 20yr old with major upside and untapped potential. This is as good as he's going to be. More ice time and better chemistry might help him, but to Ottawa, he was a 40pt guy on a good year.

Ottawa has an abundance of top 9 (6?) prospects anyways.

Methot is something Ottawa didn't have enough of, and they needed a partner for Karlsson, and he fits the bill.

To me, Foligno had more trade value than Methot, but it was an even trade given the team needs. Basically, its a win-win IMHO
Yep on all of that. 3rd line is where Foligno will almost certainly start the season. Aside of the periodic brain cramp, Methot is a solid blue liner.

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Old
07-02-2012, 03:25 PM
  #310
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Great deal for the BJs. Foligno is solid.

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07-02-2012, 03:30 PM
  #311
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We have a ton of Folignos is Ottawa (Greening, Z.Smith, O'Brien). In fact, I strongly believe if you give the same icetime to Daugavins as you do to Foligno, the offense would be negligible. What we don't have an abundance of are good, solid, defensive D-men, so if that's what Methot turns out to be, we did okay.

I personally thought Foligno was a great bargaining chip for someone like Nash, or if that's not possible Ryan, but life goes on.

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07-02-2012, 03:44 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
We have a ton of Folignos is Ottawa (Greening, Z.Smith, O'Brien). In fact, I strongly believe if you give the same icetime to Daugavins as you do to Foligno, the offense would be negligible. What we don't have an abundance of are good, solid, defensive D-men, so if that's what Methot turns out to be, we did okay.

I personally thought Foligno was a great bargaining chip for someone like Nash, or if that's not possible Ryan, but life goes on.
Smith and O'Brien, really? I mean I like them, but they don't bring anything close to what Foligno does.

And the Daugavins comparison is laughable.

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07-02-2012, 03:58 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Gil Gunderson View Post
Smith and O'Brien, really? I mean I like them, but they don't bring anything close to what Foligno does.

And the Daugavins comparison is laughable.
Um well ok

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07-02-2012, 04:02 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Gil Gunderson View Post
Smith and O'Brien, really? I mean I like them, but they don't bring anything close to what Foligno does.

And the Daugavins comparison is laughable.
Smith >>>> Folingo. Smith's shot is top 6 worthy. Folingo has nothing in his tool box thats top 6 caliber.

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07-02-2012, 04:06 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Gil Gunderson View Post
Smith and O'Brien, really? I mean I like them, but they don't bring anything close to what Foligno does.

And the Daugavins comparison is laughable.
Smith surely brings what Foligno brings to the table, so does Greening (less physical though, also less dumb penalties). Smith has a nice offensive upside to go with a very physical game. O'Brien just broke in, this year will tell his tale, but I like what I see there too. Not to mention Zibanejad, Noesen etc.

Daugavins was a favourite of mine for a while, I think he got sat late in the season because he was running out of gas, quite like the rest of the players who played through and won the Calder for Bingo, including Greening, Condra, Cowen, Z.Smith etc. Daugavins has a nice offensive upside, if given the chance to develop it. Whether that ever develops properly depends heavily on if he gets the minutes to play.

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07-02-2012, 04:14 PM
  #316
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I think this probably has a lot to do with Foligno taking a lot of bad penalties. He was very gritty, but his reputation might have cost us our place in the playoffs this year with that very questionable 5 on 3 call.

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07-02-2012, 05:41 PM
  #317
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I liked Foligno but he is replaceable, with Z-bad, and silfverberg almost ready, I'm going to miss him but he isn't really what we need.

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07-02-2012, 05:50 PM
  #318
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I really think you Sens fans are way too cup-half-full about this.

This was terrible - I don't know why some of you are denying it. It's honestly not even close to fair value.

I refuse to believe Methot is substantially better than Kuba - and I doubt the fact that he is at all, Kuba was great in Ottawa for all but 1 year and was an excellent fit with Karlsson.

There was no need to ditch Kuba and give up a valuable asset for someone who is at best a lateral move from Kuba.

Latendresse is absolutely a step down from Foligno - we downgraded at both spots, plain and simple.

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07-02-2012, 09:11 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I really think you Sens fans are way too cup-half-full about this.

This was terrible - I don't know why some of you are denying it. It's honestly not even close to fair value.

I refuse to believe Methot is substantially better than Kuba - and I doubt the fact that he is at all, Kuba was great in Ottawa for all but 1 year and was an excellent fit with Karlsson.

There was no need to ditch Kuba and give up a valuable asset for someone who is at best a lateral move from Kuba.

Latendresse is absolutely a step down from Foligno - we downgraded at both spots, plain and simple.
Latendresse, if healthy, should be an upgrade over Foligno. Sure it's a gamble, but it's a low risk-high reward type of move. I also like how everyone seems to be ignoring that Foligno would probably be pushed to the third line next season anyway, no room for him with Silfverberg on the way. Kuba wanted too much money for too long, and is crap. I don't care what anyone else says, honestly, almost anyone would look much better than they actually are with Karlsson. We needed a gritty, reliable defender and we got that in Methot. With the declining Phillips, Cowen who may take a bit longer to step into a bigger role as well as Borowiecki who probably won't be ready right away, and who knows, might amount to nothing, we need some more defensive help. Methot is approaching his prime years. I really don't see how you would rather a slow overpaid Kuba. Foligno is a fringe second liner, Methot is a top 4 defender. With the prospects coming in it made sense to trade someone who was not going to work out here for someone we need. Foligno will get a better opportunity to become a top 6 foward in Columbus, but I doubt he'll ever be a true top 6 forward. We've seen the best of him. Although he might put up more numbers with C-Bus becausehe'll probably get more minutes there.
Latendresse-Spezza-Michalek
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfredsson
is an upgrade over
Michalek-Spezza-GREENING lol
Foligno-Turris-Alfredsson

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Old
07-03-2012, 02:03 PM
  #320
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As far as the on ice product is concerned I like it. Ottawa needed a defensive defenseman and have a lot of young forwards pushing for a spot.

The one thing I don't like is that Foligno was part of the young leadership core in Ottawa. You have the old guard (Alfie, Neil, Phillips) and guys like Spezza and Foligno who were making the bridge with the younger guys like Karlsson, Cowen, Smith and some Bingo boys.

So while I really don't mind as far as what they bring on the ice, I'm a bit disappointed in what we're losing in the dressing room.

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07-03-2012, 02:11 PM
  #321
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Methot is a bust, CLB got a steal in Foligno.

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07-03-2012, 02:17 PM
  #322
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Methot is a bust, CLB got a steal in Foligno.
He was drafted in like the 6th round...

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07-03-2012, 02:21 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Methot is a bust, CLB got a steal in Foligno.
?

A bust?

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07-03-2012, 04:35 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Methot is a bust, CLB got a steal in Foligno.
Actually based on relative draft position Methot is a success story. Unfortunately many of us CBJ fans feel he's overpaid but we also didn't expect to have him slide down to a 3rd pair dman. I expected him to do a little more and play in the top 4. Injuries have hurt him.

A bust he is not! Overpaid he is! (At this point anyway). Still....good hockey trade based on team needs for both franchises.

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07-03-2012, 04:43 PM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
I really think you Sens fans are way too cup-half-full about this.

This was terrible - I don't know why some of you are denying it. It's honestly not even close to fair value.

I refuse to believe Methot is substantially better than Kuba - and I doubt the fact that he is at all, Kuba was great in Ottawa for all but 1 year and was an excellent fit with Karlsson.

There was no need to ditch Kuba and give up a valuable asset for someone who is at best a lateral move from Kuba.

Latendresse is absolutely a step down from Foligno - we downgraded at both spots, plain and simple.

Kuba better d-man then Mehot.. No

Watch as Foligno signs a 3-5 year deal paying him more then 3 million a year. We were not going to pay a third liner that, especially when you have potential stars coming through the system.

There isn't one NHL insider that doesn't think we got the better end of the trade.

Latendress is without doubt an upgrade over Foligno. Assuming he;s healthy

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