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12-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #1
Edgar
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PK Subban --> Canada Olympics

So hey, Blues fan here. Basically, me and my roommate were discussing the D of Team Canada and me and my St. Louis boner were arguing that J-Bo deserved to be top 6 on the team, and then PK came up. I said that his defense wasn't good enough to be a top 6 and that it could be exploited on the big ice. I then said that we should bring him, because there is no way we couldn't, but as a PP guy and a guy to use when we really need a goal as the 7th D-man. After that, I was told his defense has become a lot better.
Admittedly, I have not really watched the Habs at all this season, minus a couple games when they've been on at the bar. I guess after this huge lead-up, basically what Im asking is has PK's defense greatly improved? Where does he compare to an average top 4 D-Man in the league for defensive capabilities (I won't compare him to the Olympic guys, because obviously he is more offensively capable so that would be pointless). Finally, do you think his defense has become strong enough that it wouldn't be dangerous on Russian ice?
If these questions sound like Im bashing PK, sorry, not my intent. Just trying to get a reading of how his play has developed and educate myself since I do not get to watch them a lot. Thanks.

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12-05-2013, 10:22 AM
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He won the Norris, and he's by far our strongest player defensively. He's also just as good at shutting down opponents as anyone in the league. All this BS about him being bad defensively is unwarranted. He'll be Canada's best defenceman and he's the guy you want on the ice in big moments.

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12-05-2013, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
So hey, Blues fan here. Basically, me and my roommate were discussing the D of Team Canada and me and my St. Louis boner were arguing that J-Bo deserved to be top 6 on the team, and then PK came up. I said that his defense wasn't good enough to be a top 6 and that it could be exploited on the big ice. I then said that we should bring him, because there is no way we couldn't, but as a PP guy and a guy to use when we really need a goal as the 7th D-man. After that, I was told his defense has become a lot better.
Admittedly, I have not really watched the Habs at all this season, minus a couple games when they've been on at the bar. I guess after this huge lead-up, basically what Im asking is has PK's defense greatly improved? Where does he compare to an average top 4 D-Man in the league for defensive capabilities (I won't compare him to the Olympic guys, because obviously he is more offensively capable so that would be pointless). Finally, do you think his defense has become strong enough that it wouldn't be dangerous on Russian ice?
If these questions sound like Im bashing PK, sorry, not my intent. Just trying to get a reading of how his play has developed and educate myself since I do not get to watch them a lot. Thanks.
His defensive play is as good and in most cases, better, than most of the hopefuls on Team Canada.

Advanced stats support this...

This 'theory' that he's poor defensively is just a smoke screen for people not wanting him to be on Team Canada for reasons that remain unknown to this day.

That being said...I have a hard time seeing how Bouwmeester/Pietrangelo won't be a pair on Team Canada and they should, their play has certainly earned it (just like Subban's has).

If you want to find someone who might be exposed on Olympic ice and who's defensive capabilities are questionable...look no further than Shea Weber.

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12-05-2013, 10:23 AM
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RussCourtnallsGhost
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I think there's an important distinction to make between "being bad defensively" and "making high risk plays". When PK commits to playing defense, he's our best, but we don't want to stifle his talent either, so obviously there's a balance to be found between the two. He's definitely finding that balance this year.

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12-05-2013, 10:27 AM
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Dirty Danglez
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His defensive lapses reputation is self serving. Because he needs to have a fault in the eyes of other hockey fans, they look to his defensive play. Truth is, he doesn't make any more mistakes than other puck moving #1 D-men. When he does make mistakes, all the fans and media jump on it because he's PK Subban.

That being said, I find his defensive play has actually regressed this season compared to the last few. He still should be on Team Canada, but with the dmen who have a "safer" reputation on the right side in doughty, weber and Pietrangelo being ahead of him... I find it hard to believe he'll make the top 6.

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12-05-2013, 10:27 AM
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PK played his junior in Belleville where he played on an olympic sized rink for 4 years, as far as im concerned he's already got an advantage on most others vying for spots on Team Canada's blue line.

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12-05-2013, 10:42 AM
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PK Subban being bad defensively is like saying Crosby or Tavares shouldn't be on Team Canada's top 9 because they're bad defensively. That's just not true at all. That is TSN propaghanda.

That said, JBo deserves to be on TC as well.

For me, Subban is sligthly ahead of Doughty though.

Also, stacked teams like LA and Blues will make players look better than they really are. The Habs don't have a top15 offensive squad league-wise, they rely on their defensive squad and goaltenders. Subban is carrying the team since the beginning of the season, almost on top of the east, and they're definitely not a stacked team up front.

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12-05-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
So hey, Blues fan here. Basically, me and my roommate were discussing the D of Team Canada and me and my St. Louis boner were arguing that J-Bo deserved to be top 6 on the team, and then PK came up. I said that his defense wasn't good enough to be a top 6 and that it could be exploited on the big ice. I then said that we should bring him, because there is no way we couldn't, but as a PP guy and a guy to use when we really need a goal as the 7th D-man. After that, I was told his defense has become a lot better.
Admittedly, I have not really watched the Habs at all this season, minus a couple games when they've been on at the bar. I guess after this huge lead-up, basically what Im asking is has PK's defense greatly improved? Where does he compare to an average top 4 D-Man in the league for defensive capabilities (I won't compare him to the Olympic guys, because obviously he is more offensively capable so that would be pointless). Finally, do you think his defense has become strong enough that it wouldn't be dangerous on Russian ice?
If these questions sound like Im bashing PK, sorry, not my intent. Just trying to get a reading of how his play has developed and educate myself since I do not get to watch them a lot. Thanks.
I'm just curious, how many games have you seen PK play since he started playing in the NHL?
The reason I ask this is because if you actually watched him play regularly, you would know he never was a defensive liability. That's a perception people have because they always associate big puck movers like Green, Karlsson, Letang to rather mediocre defensive play. In most cases, people are right, but not with PK.
The way he protects the puck, his defensive reads, his battles in the corners are amazing, and rarely will an opponent dictate where he wants to go when he's up against PK. Subban always makes the forward coming in go where he wants him to go. Really, anybody that actually knows what a defenseman is supposed to do can easily see that PK is excellent in his zone. He will make mistakes like every other person in this world regardless of their job.

The fact people are even debating whether or not PK should be in the Olympics is rather comical. He's the best offensive tool they would have, and defensively he's as good as anybody else supposed to make this team. To top it all off, he won the Norris last year. Pretty ridiculous that people are even debating this.

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12-05-2013, 10:53 AM
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Some people don't like the colour of PK's jersey and some don't like the colour of his skin. Anyone rational would have the best defenceman in the best hockey league on the planet as a lock on their national team.

If PK is not on Team Canada it would be shameful, and no joke I'd cheer for Russia.

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12-05-2013, 10:55 AM
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#1 Dman on one of the best defensive teams in the NHL... he cant be that bad, right?... RIGHT?

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12-05-2013, 10:57 AM
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Smoky Thompson
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For all intents and purposes, Subban is already a better player than JBo on both sides of the puck. However, Babcock has stated that he believes in using already formed pairings due to the added chemistry. So JBo-Piet will be a pairing, Keith-Seabrook will probably also be a pairing (Seabrook is overrated, but he has won 2 cups playing on a line with Keith). Shea Weber and Doughty will obviously make the team, but are they really that much better than PK?

In any case, even if Piet, Doughty, Weber are ahead of PK on the right side, there is no other right handed defenseman that is even near PK. So he will, at the very least, be the 4th right handed defenseman.

He's pretty much a lock for the team in my book. All this talk and controversy by the media is to generate hype and clicks.

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12-05-2013, 11:00 AM
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I have no idea why JBo is suddenly the sweetheart of the NHL, after all his turmoils.

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12-05-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
His defensive play is as good and in most cases, better, than most of the hopefuls on Team Canada.

Advanced stats support this...

This 'theory' that he's poor defensively is just a smoke screen for people not wanting him to be on Team Canada for reasons that remain unknown to this day.

That being said...I have a hard time seeing how Bouwmeester/Pietrangelo won't be a pair on Team Canada and they should, their play has certainly earned it (just like Subban's has).

If you want to find someone who might be exposed on Olympic ice and who's defensive capabilities are questionable...look no further than Shea Weber.
The reason is quite simply racism.

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12-05-2013, 11:12 AM
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Last week PK was assigned to shut down probable Olympians Ovechkin (Russia), Crosby (Canada) and Kessel (USA). Kessel was the lone point getter from that group - he got an assist.

PK doesn't have a defensive problem. He has a PR problem.

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12-05-2013, 11:16 AM
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The reason is quite simply racism.
Do you just pull this stuff out of your backside?

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12-05-2013, 11:22 AM
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I've convinced myself that he won't make it.

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12-05-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Do you just pull this stuff out of your backside?
Denying it won't make it go away

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12-05-2013, 11:25 AM
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Do you just pull this stuff out of your backside?
You didn't see the comments about Subban slewfooting Elias before they were deleted.

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12-05-2013, 11:26 AM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
So hey, Blues fan here. Basically, me and my roommate were discussing the D of Team Canada and me and my St. Louis boner were arguing that J-Bo deserved to be top 6 on the team, and then PK came up. I said that his defense wasn't good enough to be a top 6 and that it could be exploited on the big ice. I then said that we should bring him, because there is no way we couldn't, but as a PP guy and a guy to use when we really need a goal as the 7th D-man. After that, I was told his defense has become a lot better.
Admittedly, I have not really watched the Habs at all this season, minus a couple games when they've been on at the bar. I guess after this huge lead-up, basically what Im asking is has PK's defense greatly improved? Where does he compare to an average top 4 D-Man in the league for defensive capabilities (I won't compare him to the Olympic guys, because obviously he is more offensively capable so that would be pointless). Finally, do you think his defense has become strong enough that it wouldn't be dangerous on Russian ice?
If these questions sound like Im bashing PK, sorry, not my intent. Just trying to get a reading of how his play has developed and educate myself since I do not get to watch them a lot. Thanks.
stopped reading there ahahah

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12-05-2013, 11:27 AM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
For all intents and purposes, Subban is already a better player than JBo on both sides of the puck. However, Babcock has stated that he believes in using already formed pairings due to the added chemistry. So JBo-Piet will be a pairing, Keith-Seabrook will probably also be a pairing (Seabrook is overrated, but he has won 2 cups playing on a line with Keith). Shea Weber and Doughty will obviously make the team, but are they really that much better than PK?

In any case, even if Piet, Doughty, Weber are ahead of PK on the right side, there is no other right handed defenseman that is even near PK. So he will, at the very least, be the 4th right handed defenseman.

He's pretty much a lock for the team in my book. All this talk and controversy by the media is to generate hype and clicks.
JBo has no business being on that team, and there's better guys than Seabrook too.

I understand the chemistry aspect, but at the same time, Crosby had 5 different left wingers last time around and we won. So really, how major is it?? We're talking about elite talent there. They'll be fine. I mean, Keith will be just a-okay if he plays with PK instead of Seabrook. So, let's give it a rest with that chemistry crap. I mean, if the option is there, great, but if it's to the point where JBo is making the team, then it's pretty ridiculous.

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12-05-2013, 11:30 AM
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stopped reading there ahahah
You should stoo being a dick and actually acknowledge that the OP is open minded about him being wrong, and came here to have a better idea of the situation.

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12-05-2013, 11:30 AM
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I have no idea why JBo is suddenly the sweetheart of the NHL, after all his turmoils.
Same here, I haven't watched as much hockey this year so I haven't seen J-Bo play but from what I've seen the last few seasons it really blows my mind that this guy is even a contender for Team Canada.

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12-05-2013, 11:35 AM
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habs03
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
You should stoo being a dick and actually acknowledge that the OP is open minded about him being wrong, and came here to have a better idea of the situation.
actually your are right, first reaction wasn't the best, just gets annoying reading the same thing over and over again, while it being far from the truth.

apologizes to the OP.

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12-05-2013, 11:36 AM
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Same here, I haven't watched as much hockey this year so I haven't seen J-Bo play but from what I've seen the last few seasons it really blows my mind that this guy is even a contender for Team Canada.
J-Bo has been very good this year, I really wouldn't have a problem with him being there. He and Pietrangelo form a really solid pair and Hitchcock is on the coaching staff, they are virtually guaranteed to be there and based on their play this year, they deserve to be there (even if the Blues system probably makes them look better than they are).

My biggest beef among the Team Canada 'locks' is Shea Weber...Not that I think Weber is horrible, but to me, he's not any better than say, Dion Phaneuf.

Same kind of players for me

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12-05-2013, 11:38 AM
  #25
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Same here, I haven't watched as much hockey this year so I haven't seen J-Bo play but from what I've seen the last few seasons it really blows my mind that this guy is even a contender for Team Canada.
Yzerman said in building the team last time that a big part of the selection process is built-in chemistry, which is why he was looking at pairings even more than individual merit (Getzlaf-Perry, Thornton-Marleau, Keith-Seabrook, Pronger-Neidermayer).

So if you can get two guys that don't have to learn how to play with each other and can start Day 1 knowing exactly where the other will be on the ice, it's an advantage. Which is why there's a lot of Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo talk.

I could see the argument against Subban (even if I don't necessarily agree with it) being that, because of his relative unpredictability, he could be a difficult partner to play with. In a short tournament where you have virtually no time to gel, it could be the difference between winning and losing. Which is why the selection process isn't simply a matter of taking all the guys who scored the most points or won the most trophies last year.

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