LA and Boston were good teams period. Although LA got better when they benched useless tough guys and called up some real players from the AHL. Plus Boston was only marginally better than the supposedly butter soft Habs when they faced of in the playoffs and wouldn't have won but for unreal goaltending. Then got beaten this year by Washington. Toughness is just an ideologically convenient explanation for their success.
You can believe that 4th line bruisers make players they don't play with better all you want. But it rests on some dubious assumptions on how the NHL works.
Now there are ways physical play can help a team but the way most of you talk about it, it seems more like a magic toughness field rather than in ways it can actually help.
What the Habs needed was more scoring wingers and good defensive defensemen. Punching guys more isn't going to solve their problems. Rely on that helping and you'll be disappointed. Or you'll take credit for success that happened for other reasons.
We will have empirical evidence regarding whether or not team toughness makes a difference.
Last season, Montreal was the softest team in the League. Even such brutally physical teams like Tampa Bay () pushed the Habs around. White was gone for most of the season. Moen was injured a lot. Staubitz showed up late in the season when everyone was going through the motions.
And........we finished LAST in the East.
This season, the way it looks so far, we will have basically the same top 6. The bottom 6 has been revamped.
We will see if this year's tougher team fares better than last years last place.......softest in the NHL.......team.
Regarding Eller, he is going to have to step up HIS game before we start worrying about who he has playing next to him. So far he has been underwhelming. This will be a make or break season for him. If he doesnt perform, well, time to look elsewhere. And to be fair, Eller is a 3rd line center so regardless of where he would be playing, he has to learn to succeed with "less than star" wingers.
I thought Eller stepped up his game last year by quite a lot actually. He showed his offensive flare when used as a center and given at least one good offensive winger. They dominated their opposition, spent most of their time in the offensive zone, had multiple chances, and produced. Not surprisingly, that ceased when we started using guys like Blunden or White there instead of AK.
His defensive game also progressed quite well. I'm going to have to disagree on you feeling he's been underwhelming. I think he's progressed nicely given his utilization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab
Pleks was underwhelming last year as well (although that is not a statement critical of Pleks and demanding that we get rid of him).
Eller has a bigger upside than DD based on his size. I expect Eller to be better than DD this season. If not.........
Well, let's see how he'll be used then.
Plekanec is our best center, according to you, Eller is ahead of DD, yet Desharnais is the one that benefited from playing with our two best wingers last year.
If our coaching staff follows that trend, then you shouldn't expect a break out season from Eller, especially considering the fact his wingers, today, are scrappers.
Eller is not a superstar, his max potential seems to be a top 2 center, so I don't think it would be fair to expect someone without star power to simply step up and produce 20G-50pts playing with grinders, without getting PP time.
I understand that we want to see progression, but we have to be realistic too.
Eller needs better wingers and PP time if we want him to grow his offensive game.
We will have empirical evidence regarding whether or not team toughness makes a difference.
Last season, Montreal was the softest team in the League. Even such brutally physical teams like Tampa Bay () pushed the Habs around. White was gone for most of the season. Moen was injured a lot. Staubitz showed up late in the season when everyone was going through the motions.
And........we finished LAST in the East.
This season, the way it looks so far, we will have basically the same top 6. The bottom 6 has been revamped.
We will see if this year's tougher team fares better than last years last place.......softest in the NHL.......team.
Please. They lost because they could hold a lead, had their winger and defensive depth decimated and were unlucky in close games Far better explainations than they weren't as tough as the year before. Cunneyworth regularly dressed an guy whose only job is fighting in Staublitz and played depth "energy players" and hitters more, unlike under Martin. Habs and the Habs were far worse under Cunneyworth than Martin.
2010-12 Habs were the best even strength team Montreal has had since the nineties without a goon or even much "toughness."
But we're not going to persuade each other. Both too committed to our current positions to concede. If you think Prust is worth a million more per year than his play as hockey player or position in the depth chart warrants because he's tough that's your prerogative. But I think you want to invest in tiger repelling rocks.
@BrandonPrust8: Thank u to the rangers and their fans. Been an amazin 3 years. Time of my life! On to a new chapter in my life. Montreal here I come!! #habs
Emelin can't fight. Dumont if he gets stronger could be a good 4th line centre.
Nokes is a tough Euro who will fight and defend teammates.
He's still counted as gritty though, because he plays the body hard and even though he doesn't fight he isn't afraid to get dirty and cheap shot people if he feels they have been doing it to him.
Extremely happy about this signing. Yep, it's too much, but for whoever thinks that here's 2 things afor you.
1-Duh! It's UFA time...why the **** are people keep saying it's too much when they want to see some movement at that time, and when the UFA period is usually about paying people TOO MUCH. Then, you add the fact that once people realize Montreal is not THAT hot of a destination based on the fact that we don't win cups every year, that's there are taxes and pressure and so on well again...super duh!, yes, it's too much. But either you want to pay too much, either you shut up about wanting some players at the UFA period. You can't have both. And the day you have both it will mean that you're living in a WINNING city, with WINNING condition. We most likely NEVER going to have winning conditions, so we must build a winning team before hoping we don't pay TOO MUCH.
2- That's the price you pay for things YOU DON'T HAVE. And most likely every team will end up doing it. Some with better results than others. But when you are looking for something in specifics, can't draft them, can't wait for them, or whatever, you pay a little more to be sure you'll get a better mix.
Great signing, this guy is not goon, can contribute, plays on the PK, with Moen and Prust, you do have at least 2 guys that might diminuish some of our "stars" PK time so that they concentrate on scoring goals instead.
Extremely happy about this signing. Yep, it's too much, but for whoever thinks that here's 2 things afor you.
1-Duh! It's UFA time...why the **** are people keep saying it's too much when they want to see some movement at that time, and when the UFA period is usually about paying people TOO MUCH. Then, you add the fact that once people realize Montreal is not THAT hot of a destination based on the fact that we don't win cups every year, that's there are taxes and pressure and so on well again...super duh!, yes, it's too much. But either you want to pay too much, either you shut up about wanting some players at the UFA period. You can't have both. And the day you have both it will mean that you're living in a WINNING city, with WINNING condition. We most likely NEVER going to have winning conditions, so we must build a winning team before hoping we don't pay TOO MUCH.
2- That's the price you pay for things YOU DON'T HAVE. And most likely every team will end up doing it. Some with better results than others. But when you are looking for something in specifics, can't draft them, can't wait for them, or whatever, you pay a little more to be sure you'll get a better mix.
Great signing, this guy is not goon, can contribute, plays on the PK, with Moen and Prust, you do have at least 2 guys that might diminuish some of our "stars" PK time so that they concentrate on scoring goals instead.
Just because it is free agent time does not mean you have to overpay. At then their is the term...fine $2.5 for maybe 2 years, but 4? That is way to much.
A gritty support (Moen, Prust, Bouillon, White, Emelin, Dumont...) cast... finally!
Hmm not sure you can lump them all together. I'd separate into 3 categories.
Gritty that can drop the gloves: Moen, Prust, White, Schultz (AHL)
Gritty that hit a lot but don't fight: Emelin, Bouillon (assuming he still has it at the age of 37)
Gritty that hit and agitate but don't/not good at fighting: Armstrong, Dumont (AHL/NHL split), Blunden (AHL)
) pushed the Habs around. White was gone for most of the season. Moen was injured a lot. Staubitz showed up late in the season when everyone was going through the motions.
