HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Who's Better?: Vote for Eberle

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-09-2012, 11:20 PM
  #1
NAF
Beauty Fakes
 
NAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 50
Who's Better?: Vote for Eberle

Surprised no one started a thread for this yet.

Anyway, if you care about such things, there's a poll going on at TSN right now. You choose who's better: Ebs or Kessel. Should be fun to see which fan base can click the link the most.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9706

Edit: sheesh. Just noticed that they have Eberle down as a centreman. Nice work, Toronto Sports Network.

NAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2012, 11:57 PM
  #2
402
#ualberta
 
402's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Egypt
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
I meant to make this thread earlier.
Also not sure if your serious but tsn stands for the sports network
If you watch the video Button gives the worst reasoning as to why to vote for Kessel

402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 12:45 AM
  #3
NAF
Beauty Fakes
 
NAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 402 View Post
I meant to make this thread earlier.
Also not sure if your serious but tsn stands for the sports network
If you watch the video Button gives the worst reasoning as to why to vote for Kessel
Ha, yeah, I was being sarcastic. ;D

And yeah, Button's reasoning seems to be that Kessel has been in the league longer. Honestly, I don't know which player has more value from a sheer offensive measurement, but I'll take Ebs for his character and ability to live up to the pressure of the big moment of the big game any day of the week.

NAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 02:25 AM
  #4
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: uOttawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,682
vCash: 2391
The Leafs board is thoroughly convinced that it's Kessel AINEC. It's pretty sad.

I think it's a bit of a toss up. Kessel's proven more and is the better goal scorer, but Ebs is a better defensive player and has shown he can play at Kessel's level offensively over an 82 game season.

__________________
CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada

Last edited by CanadianHockey: 07-10-2012 at 02:32 AM.
CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 02:42 AM
  #5
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,422
vCash: 500
That's Button's analyst on why Kessel is better? Adding up random, out of context stats, and making baseless comparisons?

Had a hell of a laugh listening to that one, and nearly a similiar one listening to the next video with Kevin Prendergast's soulmate running the Wild's press conference to introduce Parise/Suter.

Tarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 02:48 AM
  #6
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
 
Leaf Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: India
Posts: 70,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
The Leafs board is thoroughly convinced that it's Kessel AINEC. It's pretty sad.

I think it's a bit of a toss up. Kessel's proven more and is the better goal scorer, but Ebs is a better defensive player and has shown he can play at Kessel's level offensively over an 82 game season.
Not really.

Kessel has held his own ground since his draft year, and shown he can perform with or without a top line player. Neither did Kessel have a taylor hall to play on his side nor a RNH.

People expected a huge drop in points but once he found a good groove to play with a top line player in Lupul he started performing and prolly could have performed more if Lupul wasn't injured towards the end. We have AHL players on his wall along with Tyler bozak who in an ideal situation is a third line center or a so so second liner (I doubt it). Crabb and so on. Eberle started to come in the bigs after two years away from his draft year if I recall? By this time Hall was his line mate was he not? I like Eberle as the next guy but if he can be in such a situation and prove that then yea sure I'll always vote him.

__________________
Leaf Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 02:52 AM
  #7
OilerTyler
Fire Lowe
 
OilerTyler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,670
vCash: 50
I always laugh when I see the term "pure goal-scorer" used as a compliment.

It's just a fancy way of saying a player can only score goals. He can't play physical hockey, he can't play defensive hockey, he isn't a great playmaker. He can only score goals. The article is admitting that Kessel provides very little outside of his goal scoring ability.

Does Kessel's three more goals and six more points in six more games make up for all of the areas that Eberle is far more competent in? I don't think so.

OilerTyler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 03:02 AM
  #8
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
 
Leaf Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: India
Posts: 70,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
I always laugh when I see the term "pure goal-scorer" used as a compliment.

It's just a fancy way of saying a player can only score goals. He can't play physical hockey, he can't play defensive hockey, he isn't a great playmaker. He can only score goals. The article is admitting that Kessel provides very little outside of his goal scoring ability.

Does Kessel's three more goals and six more points in six more games make up for all of the areas that Eberle is far more competent in? I don't think so.
....I am curious now. How much of the leafs have you followed? I have watched both of the oilers and leafs to actually make the basis of the comment on why I would be wary of Eberle not performing in another team. Yes I am aware he was still good after RNH and Hall injury but I was also aware there were spots he didn't seem as explosive. The point production droped similarly for Kessel during his change from Lupul to no lupul, as no one can truly finish his passes.

The fact you just said he isn't a great playmaker when he really isn't suppose to focus on that aspect yet has an underrated playmaking ability and had more assists than goals really. As well you think he can't play defensive hockey really makes me ask this question. He isn't an ideal two player but he has actually given scare to our opponents when we are up by one goal and are on the run to protect that lead.

Leaf Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 03:58 AM
  #9
402
#ualberta
 
402's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Egypt
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Craig button made me do this…
Jordan Eberle rookie and sophomore seasons
69gp 18g 25a 43p
78gp 34g 42a 76p
Phil Kessel rookie and sophomore seasons
70gp 11g 18a 29p
82gp 19g 18a 37p
Phil Kessel drafted 5th overall
Jordan eberle draft 22nd overall

These are two great players no question about that and this is a close one but I'd take Jordan over Phil every time

402 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 04:10 AM
  #10
Oil Gauge
Registered User
 
Oil Gauge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 402 View Post
Craig button made me do this…
Jordan Eberle rookie and sophomore seasons
69gp 18g 25a 43p
78gp 34g 42a 76p
Phil Kessel rookie and sophomore seasons
70gp 11g 18a 29p
82gp 19g 18a 37p
Phil Kessel drafted 5th overall
Jordan eberle draft 22nd overall

These are two great players no question about that and this is a close one but I'd take Jordan over Phil every time
To be fair Eberle did get about 3.5 minutes more per game, and also stayed in Jr for a year after his draft. Eberle probably saw more PP time as well.

But I agree that Eberle is better, especially given the fact that he's 4 years behind Kessel and already being mentioned as equal if not better than him.

I highly doubt the Oilers would trade Eberle straight up for Kessel. I think the Leafs would like that deal though.

Oil Gauge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 04:10 AM
  #11
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: uOttawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,682
vCash: 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Not really.

Kessel has held his own ground since his draft year, and shown he can perform with or without a top line player. Neither did Kessel have a taylor hall to play on his side nor a RNH.

People expected a huge drop in points but once he found a good groove to play with a top line player in Lupul he started performing and prolly could have performed more if Lupul wasn't injured towards the end. We have AHL players on his wall along with Tyler bozak who in an ideal situation is a third line center or a so so second liner (I doubt it). Crabb and so on. Eberle started to come in the bigs after two years away from his draft year if I recall? By this time Hall was his line mate was he not? I like Eberle as the next guy but if he can be in such a situation and prove that then yea sure I'll always vote him.
Eberle was producing even when Hall and RNH were on IR - they each missed 20 games this year. It isn't as simple as 'Kessel has nobody' when Eberle's also shown he can produce without star teammates.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
....I am curious now. How much of the leafs have you followed? I have watched both of the oilers and leafs to actually make the basis of the comment on why I would be wary of Eberle not performing in another team. Yes I am aware he was still good after RNH and Hall injury but I was also aware there were spots he didn't seem as explosive. The point production droped similarly for Kessel during his change from Lupul to no lupul, as no one can truly finish his passes.

The fact you just said he isn't a great playmaker when he really isn't suppose to focus on that aspect yet has an underrated playmaking ability and had more assists than goals really. As well you think he can't play defensive hockey really makes me ask this question. He isn't an ideal two player but he has actually given scare to our opponents when we are up by one goal and are on the run to protect that lead.
It's to be expected of a sophomore to have some slumps. Either way, he still produce at almost a point per game, which is very impressive.

Kessel isn't a great playmaker, pointing to the fact that he has more assists than goals doesn't change that - mostly because almost every NHLer has more assists than goals in a season. Kessel's MO is using his speed to drive around defenders along the boards and cut in through the circle for a shot. He's an ok playmaker but he certainly isn't the guy you see used to quarterback the power play in Toronto, he's used instead for his shot.

As far as the comment about using Kessel in the dying minutes, it doesn't necessarily prove he's good defensively. It more speaks to his offensive ability - his offensive abilities are great enough that the opposition can't go all-out for a tying goal, they have to be wary of where Kessel is because he's got the wheels to exploit poor coverage and find himself on a breakaway on an empty net. In comparison, a guy like Eberle is actually used on the penalty kill and in dying minutes because he's good defensively. He's not the most physical guy, but he isn't soft and he knows where to be to force interceptions and strip players of the puck. He isn't afraid of blocking shots, either.


Last edited by CanadianHockey: 07-10-2012 at 04:17 AM.
CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 05:21 AM
  #12
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,864
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
....I am curious now. How much of the leafs have you followed? I have watched both of the oilers and leafs to actually make the basis of the comment on why I would be wary of Eberle not performing in another team. Yes I am aware he was still good after RNH and Hall injury but I was also aware there were spots he didn't seem as explosive. The point production droped similarly for Kessel during his change from Lupul to no lupul, as no one can truly finish his passes.

The fact you just said he isn't a great playmaker when he really isn't suppose to focus on that aspect yet has an underrated playmaking ability and had more assists than goals really. As well you think he can't play defensive hockey really makes me ask this question. He isn't an ideal two player but he has actually given scare to our opponents when we are up by one goal and are on the run to protect that lead.
You make it sound Like Eberle had a lot of talent surrounding him out there. Yes he had Hall and RNH (when they were healthy) but the Oilers also had an anaemic defensive group that didn't exactly help a lot... especially at even strength.

Based on last year I think Eberle had the more impressive season. I think it is a little early to say he's definitely the best player... but certainly for his age and performance so far I'd be heavily leaning towards him if I had to pick one of them for my team.

nexttothemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 08:37 AM
  #13
BlueStFX
Registered User
 
BlueStFX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 298
vCash: 500
I'm sorry, but neglecting the fact that Kessel had a battle with cancer and played in the NHL at 18 is the only way you can compare the two at a young age? Kessel is 2 years older and has had 4 consecutive 30+ goal seasons. It's not a poll on who will be better, its who is better. Eberle could become the more complete player, but kessel still has room to grow as well. I admit it's a close call between the two, but Kessel still wins this in the present, statistically.

BlueStFX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 09:08 AM
  #14
thadd
Oil4Life
 
thadd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: China
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,940
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to thadd
Kessel will win the poll just because he plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but it's hilarious that it's even close.

Eberle is a way better overall player and he's got a higher ceiling than Kessel.

Seriously 2nd year in the NHL and he was pretty much PPG while playing on the league's worst team.

Imagine how much more he's going to produce next year on what won't actually be the NHL's worst group of d-men?

thadd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 09:14 AM
  #15
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStFX View Post
I'm sorry, but neglecting the fact that Kessel had a battle with cancer and played in the NHL at 18 is the only way you can compare the two at a young age? Kessel is 2 years older and has had 4 consecutive 30+ goal seasons. It's not a poll on who will be better, its who is better. Eberle could become the more complete player, but kessel still has room to grow as well. I admit it's a close call between the two, but Kessel still wins this in the present, statistically.
Kessel was picked last at the 2011 allstar game for a reason. His peers see the deficiencies in his game that Toronto fans are so happy to gloss over.

The Oilers wouldn't take Kessel plus Gardiner for Eberle, but Burke would be falling all over himself to do Kessel for Eberle straight up. The fact that one is putting up the same numbers as a 22 year old and has a knack for scoring huge - high pressure - goals is important.

To prove that I'm not completely delusional about Eberle's value I'll give you a trade that Oilers fans would be happy with: Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for Jordan Eberle. To be fair to Ebs there are very few players in the NHL worth giving up that type of return for.

worraps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 09:20 AM
  #16
N O T O R I O U S
╱█¯█¯██¯█★█¯██¯█¯█╲
 
N O T O R I O U S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ╲Eminemton
Posts: 13,642
vCash: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Kessel will win the poll just because he plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but it's hilarious that it's even close.

Eberle is a way better overall player and he's got a higher ceiling than Kessel.

Seriously 2nd year in the NHL and he was pretty much PPG while playing on the league's worst team.

Imagine how much more he's going to produce next year on what won't actually be the NHL's worst group of d-men?
Eberle is just dominating him right now just like he should be...

Eberle is the better overall player, imagine him 2/3 years down the road, when Kessel was the same age as Eberle they weren't even comparable, Eberle was a + player on the 2nd worst team in the league, while kessel was -10 on a better team, Eberle is also a damn fine leader unlike Kessel who calls out his coach and whines.


Last edited by N O T O R I O U S: 07-10-2012 at 09:32 AM.
N O T O R I O U S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 09:27 AM
  #17
popo
Registered User
 
popo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 243
vCash: 500
Why did they list Eberle as center when he hasn't taken a shift there in the NHL?
Both great players with very different strengths, but I'd take Eberle after what he showed in just two NHL seasons..

popo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 09:29 AM
  #18
ithxan
Registered User
 
ithxan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 263
vCash: 50
Also, copy/paste the link into your browser (Chrome or Firefox, hopefully so the "Toronto Sports Network" doesn't know traffic was directed from HF Oilers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF View Post
Surprised no one started a thread for this yet.

Anyway, if you care about such things, there's a poll going on at TSN right now. You choose who's better: Ebs or Kessel. Should be fun to see which fan base can click the link the most.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9706

Edit: sheesh. Just noticed that they have Eberle down as a centreman. Nice work, Toronto Sports Network.

ithxan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 10:03 AM
  #19
The Last Dynasty
Big #1 C
 
The Last Dynasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. OILbert
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,719
vCash: 500
looking forward to the Hall/Seguin bracket

The Last Dynasty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 10:11 AM
  #20
Musashi
Registered User
 
Musashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
I think these are two good players to debate. Leaf rocket has made some good points for the case of Kessel. I personally would always choose Eberle as I believe hes the more complete player and better personality. It also doesnt hurt I've got to watch eberle for over 100 games and have only seen kessel play about 10.

Kessel has put up 30+ goals in 4 straight seasons tho. I think that gives him the edge for right now, but I'm happy we have Eberle and I think its a very good possibility he moves past kessel as being the better player very soon.

Musashi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 10:17 AM
  #21
iCanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
looking forward to the Hall/Seguin bracket
Why?

A bunch of biased eastern peoples just gonna vote Seguin every time.

I think I like Hall's game much more, and his numbers much much better, but whatever. More goals/assists/points fewer games played, but I dont think it'll mean a thing.

126gp 49g, 46a 95p -12 63 PIM
155gp 40g, 49a 89p +30 48 PIM

iCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 10:22 AM
  #22
CupofOil
Registered User
 
CupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rock Bottom
Country: United States
Posts: 13,678
vCash: 500
Those who are saying that Eberle is clearly the better player are out to lunch.
Kessel is the better player until proven otherwise. He's a lot more proven and outscored Eberle playing with lesser skilled players. Eberle isn't nearly as good defensively as a lot of Oiler fans make him out to be, he has more work to do to even be considered average defensively IMO, he gets destroyed on the road against tough competition along with Hall. He will get better without a doubt but he's far from being a complete player.
I would say that it's close between the two but Kessel being more proven gives him the edge IMO.
However, long term i prefer Eberle because i like his intangibles over Kessel with all else being fairly equal but Kessel is being underrated around here.

CupofOil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 10:27 AM
  #23
Dorian2
The bag don't lie.
 
Dorian2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,587
vCash: 50
Here's an interesting question:

Does Hall and RNH make Eberle better....or...does Eberle make Hall and RNH better?

Would RNH have been in the running for the Calder if he did not play with Ebs?

Let the fracas begin!

Dorian2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 10:28 AM
  #24
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 885
I am ok with Kessel winning this poll right now.
Lets see what Ebs does next year. If he ourscores him then he would be the clear choice.

Petro Points is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 11:15 AM
  #25
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Those who are saying that Eberle is clearly the better player are out to lunch.
Kessel is the better player until proven otherwise. He's a lot more proven and outscored Eberle playing with lesser skilled players. Eberle isn't nearly as good defensively as a lot of Oiler fans make him out to be, he has more work to do to even be considered average defensively IMO, he gets destroyed on the road against tough competition along with Hall. He will get better without a doubt but he's far from being a complete player.
I would say that it's close between the two but Kessel being more proven gives him the edge IMO.
However, long term i prefer Eberle because i like his intangibles over Kessel with all else being fairly equal but Kessel is being underrated around here.
I think Kessel is being fairly rated here. I don't view him much differently, as a hockey player, than I view Semin.

Gifted goal scorer, but that's it.

worraps is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.