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Oilers sign Darcy Hordichuk (1year/$850k)

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Old
07-03-2012, 07:22 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Grey Matter View Post
How silly...That's like saying how do you know speed limits lead to less incidents..You don't know there are less because they didn't have an incident??

What example would you expect? Someone to say, "Well, I remember a time back in '05 when having some tough guy on X team stopped someone else from getting hurt"...

Really, you want an example?
Well without example the whole crux of the matter is shutdown.

In recent years Sidney Crosby has been headhunted repeatedly. The best, most valuable player in hockey. Playing on a club that does everything short of hiring armed guards to protect him..

Of course I realize the difficulty of citing a non instance of an occurence. But thematically you can certainly describe one situation, any situation, in recent memory where a star player was untouchable because of some goons assigned to protect him.

Who are these players and who are these teams? They must exist.

Or maybe not.

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07-03-2012, 07:31 PM
  #127
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I don't believe people here are missing the obvious.

Why do we always complain whenever a Taylor Hall or Nugent-Hopkins or Hemsky gets smoked by an opposing player? Why don't we put the shoe on the other foot?

Next time Cory Sarich puts his shoulder down on Hall, on the next shift I want to see Hordichuk and Eager put on their crazy eyes and drill Cammalleri or Baertschi through the boards.

That's how you fight fire with fire.

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07-03-2012, 07:32 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
And I'm sure you know exactly what goes through an NHLers head, right?
Ive played the game where fighting was an ever present reality.

And you?

Ever been in a real hockey fight as an adult?

That's like saying we shouldnt fight terrorism because people are still committing suicide bombings.

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07-03-2012, 07:36 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by North Guy View Post
I don't believe people here are missing the obvious.

Why do we always complain whenever a Taylor Hall or Nugent-Hopkins or Hemsky gets smoked by an opposing player? Why don't we put the shoe on the other foot?

Next time Cory Sarich puts his shoulder down on Hall, on the next shift I want to see Hordichuk and Eager put on their crazy eyes and drill Cammalleri or Baertschi through the boards.

That's how you fight fire with fire.
Makes us all blind..

When clubs get into an escalation like this it seems to me that it may actually result in more players getting injured. Not in preventing the injury.

If detente works cite examples (recent) where it has.

I'm not aware of any or for what team this game plan has worked.

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07-03-2012, 07:47 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Makes us all blind..

When clubs get into an escalation like this it seems to me that it may actually result in more players getting injured. Not in preventing the injury.

If detente works cite examples (recent) where it has.

I'm not aware of any or for what team this game plan has worked.
It is not a game plan, it is called being accountable..dealing with consequences.

Why does the opponent have to initiate the dirty stuff? Are the Edmonton Oilers too honourable and 'better' than the Glencross's, Tootoo's, and Bieksa's of the NHL world? Honour means nothing if your star players are concussed and cannot contribute on the resulting powerplay.

I'm not saying the Oilers should become the Broad Street Bullies. I want the message out that if you f#$@ with our skilled players, your skilled players better look over their shoulders every time they are on the ice.

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07-03-2012, 07:49 PM
  #131
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The threat of an actual fight with someone like MacIntyre, Semenko, Laraque, Probert, etc would be a definite deterrent. Unfortunately, since the NHL instituted the instigator rule, no one steps up to fight these guys anymore.

Random 5 second beat downs, that are quickly broken up by linesmen, are not deterrents. And I don't think anyone wants to see retribution that can't be broken up by a linesman (ala Bertuzzi and McSorley).

I'm OK with the Hordichuk signing because he isn't a complete liability on the ice and does a good job of agitating (draws more penalties than he takes). I don't think anyone is afraid of his retribution. With his size and speed, Eager could lay out career threatening, hockey, hits. To me that is far more intimidating than what Hordichuk brings. Of course Eager would have to accept his role for that to mean anything.

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07-03-2012, 07:52 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Guy View Post
It is not a game plan, it is called being accountable..dealing with consequences.

Why does the opponent have to initiate the dirty stuff? Are the Edmonton Oilers too honourable and 'better' than the Glencross's, Tootoo's, and Bieksa's of the NHL world? Honour means nothing if your star players are concussed and cannot contribute on the resulting powerplay.

I'm not saying the Oilers should become the Broad Street Bullies. I want the message out that if you f#$@ with our skilled players, your skilled players better look over their shoulders every time they are on the ice.
Where this argument falls apart is that you would have to play a slug like Hordichuk against the other teams skill players. Any skill player worth their salt would salivate at the opportunity to play against a player the caliber of Hordichuk.

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07-03-2012, 08:02 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Hordichuk has a use.

Players on the other team?

Have you ever been punched in the face by an adult who is much bigger and stronger than you?

If yes, how did it feel?

Did it feel like something you would want to have happen again?

If no, then you dont know what you are talking about.
Only this is, guys like Hordichuk never play the bully. The only guys they punch in the face are guys whose job it is to get punched in the face.

Quote:
I can tell you from experience, having a player on your team who you know has your back, gives you confidence. Not having that has the opposite effect.

Its a simple, but very real concept.
But the argument isn't about the psychological impact of these guys on their own team, but the other team.

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07-03-2012, 08:11 PM
  #134
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14th forward, room loves him, NEVER will see quality minutes against tough opposition...

And yet, of course, he needs to be **** on by the "real GM's" on HFOil.

Anybody who actually still watches the games can plainly see that a guy like Hordichuk can play a small role. Unless you truly believe his 6 EV goals against last year were beyond unacceptable.


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07-03-2012, 08:12 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Only this is, guys like Hordichuk never play the bully. The only guys they punch in the face are guys whose job it is to get punched in the face.
Not necessarily. Is it Matt Cooke's job to get punched in the face? Glencross? Burrows?


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But the argument isn't about the psychological impact of these guys on their own team, but the other team.
Its a two way street. Im not saying that is the case with Hordichuk. But it is with players like Boogaard, Kassian, Scott, etc.

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07-03-2012, 08:23 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Only this is, guys like Hordichuk never play the bully. The only guys they punch in the face are guys whose job it is to get punched in the face.



But the argument isn't about the psychological impact of these guys on their own team, but the other team.
This post apparently can't be made enough.

The presence of players like Hordi does virtually nothing to invoke fear in any player that doesn't have fighting on their job description.

The whole dance card nonsense is like an undercard to the actual game of hockey. I wouldn't miss it if it was gone period.

The only meaningful blackeye is to the game in general and sadly from a bunch of goons that can hardly ever play it.

Get rid of the lot of these goons and fill their spots with more real players I say.

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07-03-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
14th forward, room loves him, NEVER will see quality minutes against tough opposition...

And yet, of course, he needs to be **** on by the "real GM's" on HFOil.

Anybody who actually still watches the games can plainly see that a guy like Hordichuk can play a small role. Unless you truly believe his 6 EV goals against last year were beyond unacceptable.
What role is that?

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07-03-2012, 08:26 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This post apparently can't be made enough.

The presence of players like Hordi does virtually nothing to invoke fear in any player that doesn't have fighting on their job description.

The whole dance card nonsense is like an undercard to the actual game of hockey. I wouldn't miss it if it was gone period.

The only meaningful blackeye is to the game in general and sadly from a bunch of goons that can hardly ever play it.

Get rid of the lot of these goons and fill their spots with more real players I say.
Spot on.

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07-03-2012, 08:39 PM
  #139
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What role is that?
Hordichuk is a decent skater who hits at most every opportunity and isn't a complete liability on the ice. He creates a stir when he is on the ice and is certainly vocal as much as possible.

That's his role.


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07-03-2012, 08:42 PM
  #140
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There is always Ringette for some of you folks

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07-03-2012, 08:45 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
Hordichuk is a decent skater who hits at most every opportunity and isn't a complete liability on the ice. He creates a stir when he is on the ice and is certainly vocal as much as possible.

That's his role.
I don't mind solid hitting therefore my fondness with Torres but given enough toi I imagine Hordi would be a liability.

Outside of the hitting what do you think Hordi's role actually accomplishes? What does it result in?

I tend to think guys tune him out. Kind of like the vicious dog barking next door all the time. Not sure what yapping accomplishes one way or the other. Being an instigator requires being crafty and clever. Not just being in guys faces. I have the Hordi vicious look memorized. I'd have a hard time not laughing at it.

The NHL has already ruled out there being any real role for guys like Hordi. Although some GM's don't seem to notice this.

That said I'm open to interpretations on what net effect there is. For damn sure its not detente or player safety.

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07-03-2012, 08:48 PM
  #142
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It's hard being a tough guy in Edmonton. You get scrutinized more than the stars.

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07-03-2012, 08:49 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I don't mind solid hitting therefore my fondness with Torres but given enough toi I imagine Hordi would be a liability.

Outside of the hitting what do you think Hordi's role actually accomplishes? What does it result in?

I tend to think guys tune him out. Kind of like the vicious dog barking next door all the time. Not sure what yapping accomplishes one way or the other.

The NHL has already ruled out there being any real role for guys like Hordi. Although some GM's don't seem to notice this.

That said I'm open to interpretations on what net effect there is. For damn sure its not detente or player safety.
The amount he hits compared to the minutes he plays is off the charts. Not one boarding penalty or any of those Torresque "clean hockey plays" that get you suspended for 25 games and almost end careers.

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07-03-2012, 08:57 PM
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The amount he hits compared to the minutes he plays is off the charts. Not one boarding penalty or any of those Torresque "clean hockey plays" that get you suspended for 25 games and almost end careers.
Not sure how many boarding penalties Torres ever got either. He's an open ice hitter primarily. I'll add that a lot of the injuries are a pure result of how hard Torres hits pound/pound. Whether he hits head or not the targeted players head whiplashes.

Anyway I don't mind the hitting whoever it comes from. No argument there. Hordi does hit well for his minutes and its something I'm aware of. I'm fine with it if you're saying thats enough.

I don't think theres really any other net effect. Thats what I was asking about.

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07-03-2012, 09:01 PM
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It's hard being a tough guy in Edmonton. You get scrutinized more than the stars.
I first realized how ineffective enforcers are from the Vancouver Canucks example when guys like May and Brookebank started running the dressing room with the help of Crawford and idiots like Bertuzzi listening.

When a team buys into the goon concept its often that team itself that implodes.

The role deserves scrutiny at least for how little it accomplishes in present day NHL.

Its like an outdated job description. Or should be.

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07-03-2012, 09:10 PM
  #146
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2 bad the last 2 teams to win the cup were very very tough teams

Guess its too outdated a notion to win

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07-03-2012, 09:13 PM
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2 bad the last 2 teams to win the cup were very very tough teams

Guess its too outdated a notion to win
What enforcers did the LA Kings require?

This was team tough and just having hard to play against physical players throughout the lineup. A team that ground you down with size, hitting, puck battle, etc.

Thats an entirely different thing and has no relevance to the argument about enforcers. I could argue a team like LA doesn't need enforcers because their players can handle themselves out there.

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07-03-2012, 09:25 PM
  #148
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Not sure how many boarding penalties Torres ever got either. He's an open ice hitter primarily. I'll add that a lot of the injuries are a pure result of how hard Torres hits pound/pound. Whether he hits head or not the targeted players head whiplashes.

Anyway I don't mind the hitting whoever it comes from. No argument there. Hordi does hit well for his minutes and its something I'm aware of. I'm fine with it if you're saying thats enough.

I don't think theres really any other net effect. Thats what I was asking about.
Hordichuk played 43 games, averaged just over 4 minutes a night and was 4th for Oiler forwards in hits with 67.

His role is to hit anyone and everyone he can, distract opposition, muck it up and throw them if he has to. There is a role in this league for that still, and certainly on this team this year.

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07-03-2012, 09:29 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
2 bad the last 2 teams to win the cup were very very tough teams

Guess its too outdated a notion to win
Yes, they were both very tough teams. Neither had a designated goon though. Shawn Thornton was the closest thing, and he can obviously play a regular shift.

I'm alright with Hordichuk, I think he fills a role on this team and can be used to hold the opposition accountable. But he's not stopping anyone from throwing hits at the Oilers young guns.

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07-03-2012, 09:30 PM
  #150
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What enforcers did the LA Kings require?

This was team tough and just having hard to play against physical players throughout the lineup. A team that ground you down with size, hitting, puck battle, etc.

Thats an entirely different thing and has no relevance to the argument about enforcers. I could argue a team like LA doesn't need enforcers because their players can handle themselves out there.
Kyle Clifford would qualify as LA's enforcer, 10 fighting majors this season, 9:24 min/G TOI.

For the record, LA fought more often the the Oilers did (33 to 27), and over half those fights were from 2 guys (Clifford with 10, Fraser with 7). Oh, and don't forget Kevin Westgarth (23GP, 5 min/night, 3 fighting majors).


Last edited by Ol' Jase: 07-03-2012 at 09:40 PM.
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