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[DET] Mikael Samuelsson [2 yrs, $3M cap] & Jordin Tootoo (3 yrs, $1.9M cap)

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:11 AM
  #226
TheCerebral1
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I like Tootoo to Det more than Sammi. Sammi is closer to being done. But who knows, he had a good year three years ago in Vancouver when no one expected it.

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:20 AM
  #227
Henkka
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I put up some stats earlier about UFA's. I''l repeat them again.

Goal scored per game:

Alex Semin 28, 6'2/208lbs, right, 89 goals in last 3 seasons 0.414 per game
Zach Parise 27, 5'11/185lbs, left, 72 goals in last 3 seasons 0.409 per game
Teemu Selšnne 41, 6'0/200lbs, right, 84 goals in last 3 seasons 0.402 per game
Quillaume Latendresse, 25, 6'2/240lbs, left, 33 goals in last seasons 0.402 per game
David Jones 28, 6'2/210lbs, right, 57 goals in last 3 seasons 0.331 per game
Mikael Samuelsson 35, 6'2/218lbs, right, 62 goals in last 3 seasons 0.305 per game

Even though Sammy shoots a lot, shoots wide, shoots in the middle of the goalie, he also puts the puck in the net with quite good frequency. 6th best average of all UFA's at this summer from last three seasons. Selšnne is a Duck, Latendresse wanted to go nearer Montreal, Jones re-signed with Avs before free agency, Semin and Parise are still in the market. Sammy was the only available for Wings of this group so far.

He is also good defensively, they had one of the best NHL 3rd lines in Florida at last season, Bergenheim - Goc - Samuelsson.

You can see it from these stats:

http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

Also, Sammy's penalty ratio is positive, he draws 0.9 penalties/60min and takes 0.7 penalties/60min.

And you can use this guy on the point. That's IMO quite good package, combination of skill and ability to play Babcock hockey. Shoot, skate fast and defend well, shoot and defend, score sometimes.

All in all, as a 3rd liner, I can't find any weakness from him.

***

Some stats from Tootoo compared to some other Wings players:

Top5, Hits/min(SH+EV icetime only) at last season:

Jordin Tootoo 0.151
Justin Abdelkader 0.150
Jan Mursak 0.113
Mikael Samuelsson 0.109
Darren Helm 0.100

Top5, Takeaways/min

Pavel Datsyuk 0.071 (Maybe best in NHL?)
Gustav Nyquist 0.044
Jordin Tootoo 0.041
Darren Helm 0.027
Mikael Samuelsson 0.027

Penalty ratio, drawn/taken:

Darren Helm +2.1 -0.4 = +1.7 (Best in NHL with Jeff Skinner)
Pavel Datsyuk +1.0 -0.2 = +0.8
Justin Abdelkader +1.5 -0.9 = +0.6
----------------------------------
Jordin Tootoo +1.2 -1.0 = +0.2
Mikael Samuelsson +0.9 -0.7 = +0.2

Total fights:

Justin Abdelkader - 6
Jordin Tootoo - 5
Mike Commodore - 3
Todd Bertuzzi - 2
Kindl, Stuart, Smith, Ericsson - 1

He adds hitting ability, and when he hits, it's 217lbs that hits. He is short, so there's a greater probability, that those hits does not always hunt the head like some Pronger-like hits. The elbow is always in the head with a tall guy if you don't go butt-first like Kronwall nowadays. So his hitting fits in the new NHL, if he just avoids the blind-side hits. He is also great at stealing pucks and creating scoring chances that way. 24 assists at last season without PP time. He maybe takes dump penalties, but he draws more than takes. He's a fast skater and he fights. Nice package.

***

It's funny to see how Vancouver/Florida fans give credit about Sammy, that he's a good signing and Wings fans are saying how horrible he is. I'm starting to think that Wings fans are a little bit spoiled. Just look at those stats, Sammy is there, doing that dirty work right, and scoring.

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:31 AM
  #228
Datstromberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I put up some stats earlier about UFA's. I''l repeat them again.

Goal scored per game:

Alex Semin 28, 6'2/208lbs, right, 89 goals in last 3 seasons 0.414 per game
Zach Parise 27, 5'11/185lbs, left, 72 goals in last 3 seasons 0.409 per game
Teemu Selšnne 41, 6'0/200lbs, right, 84 goals in last 3 seasons 0.402 per game
Quillaume Latendresse, 25, 6'2/240lbs, left, 33 goals in last seasons 0.402 per game
David Jones 28, 6'2/210lbs, right, 57 goals in last 3 seasons 0.331 per game
Mikael Samuelsson 35, 6'2/218lbs, right, 62 goals in last 3 seasons 0.305 per game

Even though Sammy shoots a lot, shoots wide, shoots in the middle of the goalie, he also puts the puck in the net with quite good frequency. 6th best average of all UFA's at this summer from last three seasons. Selšnne is a Duck, Latendresse wanted to go nearer Montreal, Jones re-signed with Avs before free agency, Semin and Parise are still in the market. Sammy was the only available for Wings of this group so far.

He is also good defensively, they had one of the best NHL 3rd lines in Florida at last season, Bergenheim - Goc - Samuelsson.

You can see it from these stats:

http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

Also, Sammy's penalty ratio is positive, he draws 0.9 penalties/60min and takes 0.7 penalties/60min.

And you can use this guy on the point. That's IMO quite good package, combination of skill and ability to play Babcock hockey. Shoot, skate fast and defend well, shoot and defend, score sometimes.

All in all, as a 3rd liner, I can't find any weakness from him.

***

Some stats from Tootoo compared to some other Wings players:

Top5, Hits/min(SH+EV icetime only) at last season:

Jordin Tootoo 0.151
Justin Abdelkader 0.150
Jan Mursak 0.113
Mikael Samuelsson 0.109
Darren Helm 0.100

Top5, Takeaways/min

Pavel Datsyuk 0.071 (Maybe best in NHL?)
Gustav Nyquist 0.044
Jordin Tootoo 0.041
Darren Helm 0.027
Mikael Samuelsson 0.027

Penalty ratio, drawn/taken:

Darren Helm +2.1 -0.4 = +1.7 (Best in NHL with Jeff Skinner)
Pavel Datsyuk +1.0 -0.2 = +0.8
Justin Abdelkader +1.5 -0.9 = +0.6
----------------------------------
Jordin Tootoo +1.2 -1.0 = +0.2
Mikael Samuelsson +0.9 -0.7 = +0.2

Total fights:

Justin Abdelkader - 6
Jordin Tootoo - 5
Mike Commodore - 3
Todd Bertuzzi - 2
Kindl, Stuart, Smith, Ericsson - 1

He adds hitting ability, and when he hits, it's 217lbs that hits. He is short, so there's a greater probability, that those hits does not always hunt the head like some Pronger-like hits. The elbow is always in the head with a tall guy if you don't go butt-first like Kronwall nowadays. So his hitting fits in the new NHL, if he just avoids the blind-side hits. He is also great at stealing pucks and creating scoring chances that way. 24 assists at last season without PP time. He maybe takes dump penalties, but he draws more than takes. He's a fast skater and he fights. Nice package.

***

It's funny to see how Vancouver/Florida fans give credit about Sammy, that he's a good signing and Wings fans are saying how horrible he is. I'm starting to think that Wings fans are a little bit spoiled. Just look at those stats, Sammy is there, doing that dirty work right, and scoring.
but you dont understand... some of his shots hit the goalie in the chest.

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Old
07-02-2012, 09:32 AM
  #229
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TooToo, just another Red Wing to hate, and watch get beat up.

Talks with Shanahan won't happen for a min of 3 years.

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Old
07-02-2012, 09:36 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I put up some stats earlier about UFA's. I''l repeat them again.

Goal scored per game:

Alex Semin 28, 6'2/208lbs, right, 89 goals in last 3 seasons 0.414 per game
Zach Parise 27, 5'11/185lbs, left, 72 goals in last 3 seasons 0.409 per game
Teemu Selšnne 41, 6'0/200lbs, right, 84 goals in last 3 seasons 0.402 per game
Quillaume Latendresse, 25, 6'2/240lbs, left, 33 goals in last seasons 0.402 per game
David Jones 28, 6'2/210lbs, right, 57 goals in last 3 seasons 0.331 per game
Mikael Samuelsson 35, 6'2/218lbs, right, 62 goals in last 3 seasons 0.305 per game
Going back 3 seasons is misleading because he'll never score close to 30 goals again. That was a fluke season like Garrison had last season. Not gonna happen.

Samuelsson is a 15-20 goal guy @ 3 million

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Old
07-02-2012, 09:43 AM
  #231
Henkka
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
Going back 3 seasons is misleading because he'll never score close to 30 goals again. That was a fluke season like Garrison had last season. Not gonna happen.

Samuelsson is a 15-20 goal guy @ 3 million
If we don't go back 3 seasons, at last season he was scoring 0.259 per game as a 3rd liner. More than Doan, Arnott, Pareantau, Whitney, O.Jokinen (with their 3-season averages), etc. He's still effective, I can't help if you are biased against him.

He will be a 3rd liner, and last season he was one of the best 3rd liners for the Panthers with "superstars" Bergenheim and Goc.

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Old
07-02-2012, 09:47 AM
  #232
Jill Sandwich
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Tootoo at 1.9 makes Cookie at 1.8 seem like robbery.

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07-02-2012, 09:50 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
TooToo, just another Red Wing to hate, and watch get beat up.

Talks with Shanahan won't happen for a min of 3 years.
After the Shea Weber fiasco, you honestly feel the Wings still get special treatment. Just leave. He went out of his way to NOT side with the Wings.

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07-02-2012, 09:50 AM
  #234
ArGarBarGar
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Originally Posted by Jill Sandwich View Post
Tootoo at 1.9 makes Cookie at 1.8 seem like robbery.
Doesn't hurt when one contract was put into the works two years ago, when the cap was $10 million less than it is now. Also don't forget that one agreed to a contract extension with a team he loves to play for and the other was a free agent going to a division rival.

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07-02-2012, 10:27 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
If we don't go back 3 seasons, at last season he was scoring 0.259 per game as a 3rd liner. More than Doan, Arnott, Pareantau, Whitney, O.Jokinen (with their 3-season averages), etc. He's still effective, I can't help if you are biased against him.

He will be a 3rd liner, and last season he was one of the best 3rd liners for the Panthers with "superstars" Bergenheim and Goc.
I'm not bias, I just think $3 million is too much. In comparision, Bertuzzi scores more goals and is more physical for a million less.

David Moss just signed for $2 million and he'll score more goals and is more physical. Wings need to get bigger/tougher along with players can pot in 20+ goals.

If Sammy is Hudler's replacement, he won't score nearly as many goals as Hudler will. So, in essence, Samuelsson is a significant downgrade. Especially since Sammy is older and slower than he was during his last tenure with the DRWs.

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07-02-2012, 11:00 AM
  #236
Henkka
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
I'm not bias, I just think $3 million is too much. In comparision, Bertuzzi scores more goals and is more physical for a million less.

David Moss just signed for $2 million and he'll score more goals and is more physical. Wings need to get bigger/tougher along with players can pot in 20+ goals.
What?

Bertuzzi scored 14 goals playing with Datsyuk. In 71 games. 0.197 per game.

Sammy scored 14 goals with 3rd liners. In 54 games. 0.259 per game.

Moss scored 2 goals in 32 games. 0.0625 per game. During the last 3 years, 0.175 per game.

Quote:
If Sammy is Hudler's replacement, he won't score nearly as many goals as Hudler will. So, in essence, Samuelsson is a significant downgrade. Especially since Sammy is older and slower than he was during his last tenure with the DRWs.

Sammy could be older and slower than before, but he still would be bigger and faster than Hudler ever will be.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:03 AM
  #237
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yikes things headed downhill in detroit. if i am Suter and Parise im seeing the sinking ship. Tootoo is one of the most horrible players in the league. In fact ... Yup most horrible player in the league.29 other teams are laughing wondering how he is still actually in the league. makes Avery look like gretzky and Andy Sutton look like Mario Lemieux. Samuelsson... dont see how he fits as a top 6 guy anymore... not defensive or gritty enough for bottom six. i guess everyone has their gem in the trash once in a while but man is DETROIT going thru other teams trash quite a bit lately.

Parise and Suter see this and avoid detroit like the plague. Yikes. Today is proof Detroit is dying.

600 nhl players just saw Tootoo sign in Detroit and went... well i guess Detroits thrown in the towel.
You're just projecting your own sentiments, troll.

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07-02-2012, 11:11 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
What?

Bertuzzi scored 14 goals playing with Datsyuk. In 71 games. 0.197 per game.

Sammy scored 14 goals with 3rd liners. In 54 games. 0.259 per game.

Moss scored 2 goals in 32 games. 0.0625 per game. During the last 3 years, 0.175 per game.


Sammy could be older and slower than before, but he still would be bigger and faster than Hudler ever will be.
Bert and Sammy are both 15-20 goal guys. Bert brings an element that Sammy can't; toughness.

Bert makes less money, about the same age, and scores about the same amount of goals. Holland signed a $3 million dollar 3rd liner that's pushing 36 with a NTC. Nice.

Moss can score 15-20 goals on the 3rd line, he also brings elements to the game Sammy can't.; youth and toughness. Moss is younger, bigger, and tougher. Moss also is a much better 2-way player.

Sammy is a 6'2 guy that plays soft as Hudler. Difference is, Hudler is younger and scores more goals. Also, Sammy seem injury prone... that's just what the DRWs need, more glass players.

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Old
07-02-2012, 09:29 PM
  #239
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
TooToo agrees to Detroit. 3 years $1.9 per
Didn't think I could like Tootoo any less and then he goes and signs with the Wings.

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07-03-2012, 07:11 PM
  #240
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Ok, so it just dawned on me that Toots will be on HBO 24/7 Road to the Winter Classic.
Not sure how to feel about that... or about this signing in general.
It will be interesting to say the least.

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Old
07-03-2012, 07:32 PM
  #241
Benedict Kovalchuk
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Ok, so it just dawned on me that Toots will be on HBO 24/7 Road to the Winter Classic.
Not sure how to feel about that... or about this signing in general.
It will be interesting to say the least.
This totally reminded me that Samuelsson will be on 24/7 also! His interviews were my favorite part of his tenure in Vancouver...


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07-03-2012, 08:55 PM
  #242
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Ok I really don't understand the whole Tootoo situation.

Why didn't he sign in Nashville? Is there bad blood between them now or what?

I thought he was adored there.

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