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Leafs shouldn't trade anything significant for anyone 28+

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07-02-2012, 01:15 AM
  #1
A1LeafNation
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Leafs shouldn't trade anything significant for anyone 28+

Probably one of the worst trades we made(justified because we were a contender) was the Owen Nolan trade which stripped of us McCauley + Boyes + 1st. Equivalent to today its probably Grabs + Kadri + 1st in 2013.

We traded for a guy that was over the hill and never contributed much in Toronto. He never really was injury prone until he came to Toronto.

Why was trading for a 31 year old when we were a contender any different from trading for a 28 year old now? By the time we are realistically a contender that guy will be 31 MINIMUM.

This is why you build from the ground up and don't trade any decent younger assets away, ever!

BTW, How old are Nash and Luongo again?

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07-02-2012, 01:24 AM
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07-02-2012, 01:35 AM
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Kessely Snipes
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I think we should leave Nash alone regardless of age, Howsen's asking price is laughable.

If the Canucks are indeed asking for Grabs + Kadri + 1st in 2013 (or similar) type of deal for Luongo, Burke will not make that trade.

So in this situation I think the age of the players is irrelevant, its the high cost of both that is the problem.

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07-02-2012, 08:37 AM
  #4
number72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Probably one of the worst trades we made(justified because we were a contender) was the Owen Nolan trade which stripped of us McCauley + Boyes + 1st. Equivalent to today its probably Grabs + Kadri + 1st in 2013.

We traded for a guy that was over the hill and never contributed much in Toronto. He never really was injury prone until he came to Toronto.

Why was trading for a 31 year old when we were a contender any different from trading for a 28 year old now? By the time we are realistically a contender that guy will be 31 MINIMUM.

This is why you build from the ground up and don't trade any decent younger assets away, ever!

BTW, How old are Nash and Luongo again?
Many fans will not take a position on this until Burke makes the trade.
And than after Burke's trade they will be enter the for/against camp.
Alternatively some will poke at how dumb your question is.

That said, I tend to agree with what you said.

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07-02-2012, 08:45 AM
  #5
ryno23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Probably one of the worst trades we made(justified because we were a contender) was the Owen Nolan trade which stripped of us McCauley + Boyes + 1st. Equivalent to today its probably Grabs + Kadri + 1st in 2013.

We traded for a guy that was over the hill and never contributed much in Toronto. He never really was injury prone until he came to Toronto.

Why was trading for a 31 year old when we were a contender any different from trading for a 28 year old now? By the time we are realistically a contender that guy will be 31 MINIMUM.

This is why you build from the ground up and don't trade any decent younger assets away, ever!

BTW, How old are Nash and Luongo again?
See I think this team does need veterans that can provide leadership in the dressing room. Phaneuf does not posses the leadership from an experience point of view.

I would rather see us bring in a Jaime Langenbrunner, Jason Arnott or John Madden type of guys who have not only playoff experience but cup winning experience guys who have been thru the wars and knows what it takes to win. I bet those guys during that horrific March would have led a players only meeting and gotten the teams attention as they can relay past experiences and tell them now its the time to stop this losing **** and we need to play better hockey.

Yeah most of those type of guys are not top 6 or big minute guys but solid vets that can be counted on during the crunch to step up and be leaders.

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07-02-2012, 08:49 AM
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dubplatepressure
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I think a deal with SJ around Clowe and D Murray for Kulemin/Mac + Gunnar/Franson would greatly benefit both teams.





Age has less relevance when veteran leadership is the goal.

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07-02-2012, 08:50 AM
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No more trading first round picks, thanks.

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07-02-2012, 08:51 AM
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Kessely Snipes
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I think a deal with SJ around Clowe and D Murray for Kulemin/Mac + Gunnar/Franson would greatly benefit both teams.





Age has less relevance when veteran leadership is the
goal.
Would Murray be worth losing a guy like Gunnar? I don't think San Jose would want Frason as much as him.

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07-02-2012, 08:54 AM
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Toronto is too young

but damm look at EDMONTON, LOL

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07-02-2012, 08:57 AM
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This wouldn't even be a thread if there wasn't a salary cap

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07-02-2012, 08:58 AM
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Just for the sake of arguement, that trade today would be more like Bozak + Kadri + 2nd + 3rd for us today. McCauley was a decent player, but aside from his playoff run was never a real great player for us, and the 1st at the time was a late first and we figured it could be around 30, which, coincidentally (and extremely sadly) is a lot closer to our 2nd rounder than our 1st.

But I still agree to an extent, though if the right player came along I wouldn't mind seeing us trade some of our prospects away if need be, though I don't want to see them trading their 1st again for a while.

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07-02-2012, 09:00 AM
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Mccauly was decent, Boyes isn't spectacular(leafs need to get over him he's not that good) the only thing that hurts was that first because look at the possibilities the Leafs could hve had

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07-02-2012, 09:01 AM
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dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessely Snipes View Post
Would Murray be worth losing a guy like Gunnar? I don't think San Jose would want Frason as much as him.
IMO, yes. Big bodied stay at home guy, can log top-4 minutes and play the PK. Can't push him around because he's huge.

He's what Gunnar is minus a little mobility and offence, plus a little more defense. And we get Clowe (I wouldn't just trade Gunnar for Murray).

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07-02-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
IMO, yes. Big bodied stay at home guy, can log top-4 minutes and play the PK. Can't push him around because he's huge.

He's what Gunnar is minus a little mobility and offence, plus a little more defense. And we get Clowe (I wouldn't just trade Gunnar for Murray).
Oh I see yeah that sounds good. I definatley would like to see Something around MacArthur for Clowe as well.

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07-02-2012, 09:17 AM
  #15
Stephen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Probably one of the worst trades we made(justified because we were a contender) was the Owen Nolan trade which stripped of us McCauley + Boyes + 1st. Equivalent to today its probably Grabs + Kadri + 1st in 2013.

We traded for a guy that was over the hill and never contributed much in Toronto. He never really was injury prone until he came to Toronto.

Why was trading for a 31 year old when we were a contender any different from trading for a 28 year old now? By the time we are realistically a contender that guy will be 31 MINIMUM.

This is why you build from the ground up and don't trade any decent younger assets away, ever!

BTW, How old are Nash and Luongo again?
Looking back, the Owen Nolan and Brian Leetch trades were the right thing to do. Only problem is they didn't get some firsts and picks back in the meantime like the Flyers managed to do.

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07-02-2012, 09:31 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Probably one of the worst trades we made(justified because we were a contender) was the Owen Nolan trade which stripped of us McCauley + Boyes + 1st. Equivalent to today its probably Grabs + Kadri + 1st in 2013.

We traded for a guy that was over the hill and never contributed much in Toronto. He never really was injury prone until he came to Toronto.

Why was trading for a 31 year old when we were a contender any different from trading for a 28 year old now? By the time we are realistically a contender that guy will be 31 MINIMUM.

This is why you build from the ground up and don't trade any decent younger assets away, ever!

BTW, How old are Nash and Luongo again?
The Nolan trade wasn't that bad, certainly not one of the worst.

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Old
07-02-2012, 09:32 AM
  #17
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As much as I loved McCauley, the only period of time he looked even close to Grabo's level was in the 2002 playoffs when we had that rash of injuries and him and Roberts carried us.

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07-02-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Mccauly was decent, Boyes isn't spectacular(leafs need to get over him he's not that good) the only thing that hurts was that first because look at the possibilities the Leafs could have had
The 2003 draft was exceptionally strong draft and when it came time to select with the Leafs selections at #23 they could have picked players like Mike Richards, Corey Perry, Patrice Bergeron, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, etc (just to name a few) were all still on the board.

Doesn't matter who the GM is in Toronto, the operating practices remain the same. Quinn traded future top picks, JFJ traded future top picks, Burke traded future top picks.

Our Leafs simply do not build through the draft regardless of what they say, and picks and prospects is the #1 currency of choice when it comes to building teams.

So hoping we don't trade these assets is a losing battle.

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07-02-2012, 09:54 AM
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The 2003 draft was exceptionally strong draft and when it came time to select with the Leafs selections at #23 they could have picked players like Mike Richards, Corey Perry, Patrice Bergeron, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, etc (just to name a few) were all still on the board.

Doesn't matter who the GM is in Toronto, the operating practices remain the same. Quinn traded future top picks, JFJ traded future top picks, Burke traded future top picks.

Our Leafs simply do not build through the draft regardless of what they say, and picks and prospects is the #1 currency of choice when it comes to building teams.

So hoping we don't trade these assets is a losing battle.
sigh

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07-02-2012, 10:16 AM
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The 2003 draft was exceptionally strong draft and when it came time to select with the Leafs selections at #23 they could have picked players like Mike Richards, Corey Perry, Patrice Bergeron, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, etc (just to name a few) were all still on the board.

Doesn't matter who the GM is in Toronto, the operating practices remain the same. Quinn traded future top picks, JFJ traded future top picks, Burke traded future top picks.

Our Leafs simply do not build through the draft regardless of what they say, and picks and prospects is the #1 currency of choice when it comes to building teams.

So hoping we don't trade these assets is a losing battle.
Two of which were drafted in the second round. Of the few that you name you conveniently leave out: Marc-Antoine Pouliot, Anthony Stewart, Jeff Tambellini, Brian Boyle, Patrick Eaves, and Shawn Belle who were all on the board at the Leafs pick and who all went in the first round well before Bergeron and Weber. There are also quite a few absolute nobodies that went before them in the second round.

They rolled the dice and lost, **** happens. At least they gave it their best shot and increased their chances at the ultimate goal. Chances are they would have drafted a forgettable journeyman or a nobody anyway.

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07-02-2012, 10:19 AM
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There needs to be some exceptions though. A decent offer should be made for allstar players like rick nash and, if you can acquire them for cheap assets

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07-02-2012, 10:23 AM
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The 2003 draft was exceptionally strong draft and when it came time to select with the Leafs selections at #23 they could have picked players like Mike Richards, Corey Perry, Patrice Bergeron, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, etc (just to name a few) were all still on the board.

Doesn't matter who the GM is in Toronto, the operating practices remain the same. Quinn traded future top picks, JFJ traded future top picks, Burke traded future top picks.

Our Leafs simply do not build through the draft regardless of what they say, and picks and prospects is the #1 currency of choice when it comes to building teams.

So hoping we don't trade these assets is a losing battle.
In Quinn's 3 years as GM he had 2 first round draft picks.
In JFJ's 4 years as GM he had 2 first round draft picks.
Entering in Burke's 4th year as GM and he's had 4 first round draft picks.

Quinn traded a first round pick once in his time in Toronto.
JFJ traded a first round pick twice in his time in Toronto.
Burke traded two first round draft picks in one trade in his time in Toronto.

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07-02-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The 2003 draft was exceptionally strong draft and when it came time to select with the Leafs selections at #23 they could have picked players like Mike Richards, Corey Perry, Patrice Bergeron, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, etc (just to name a few) were all still on the board.

Doesn't matter who the GM is in Toronto, the operating practices remain the same. Quinn traded future top picks, JFJ traded future top picks, Burke traded future top picks.

Our Leafs simply do not build through the draft regardless of what they say, and picks and prospects is the #1 currency of choice when it comes to building teams.

So hoping we don't trade these assets is a losing battle.
Apart from Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul and now JVR, Burke has also acquired a number of first round selections while retaining our own: Gardiner, Colborne, Ashton, etc...And in the last four seasons has selected four times in the first round, and has acquired five first round talents: Kadri, Biggs, Percy, Rielly, Finn (consensus 1st round pick at 16 acc.to CSS, and numbered as high as 9th - C.Button @ TSN).

Toronto may not have built through the Draft in years previous, but Burke is certainly trying to make up for lost time by doing his diligent best to address that once glaring omission.

Is it fair to say he's attempting to change the culture in that respect?

I think it is.

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07-02-2012, 10:50 AM
  #24
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I think we should just keep doing what we are doing, we are one of the most consistent teams in the league since the lockout. Why would we want to jeopardize that by acquiring talent? Screw this, I would trade anything for anybody who will make this team better next season. End of story.

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07-02-2012, 11:02 AM
  #25
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Two of which were drafted in the second round. Of the few that you name you conveniently leave out: Marc-Antoine Pouliot, Anthony Stewart, Jeff Tambellini, Brian Boyle, Patrick Eaves, and Shawn Belle who were all on the board at the Leafs pick and who all went in the first round well before Bergeron and Weber. There are also quite a few absolute nobodies that went before them in the second round.

They rolled the dice and lost, **** happens. At least they gave it their best shot and increased their chances at the ultimate goal. Chances are they would have drafted a forgettable journeyman or a nobody anyway.
Opportunity cost and loss is not measured by other failures, but rather what successes were potentially passed up by making a short-term move.

Leafs could have drafted players like Mike Richards or Corey Perry etc had they kept the pick instead of trading it, because those players were still available at the time or Leafs original draft spot. How would either of them look in a Leaf jersey today because it was a possibility without the trade?.

If you want to argue that had Leafs kept it, they would have likely wasted the pick anyways on a bad selection therefore the Nolan trade was worthwhile, than that is your prerogative to do so. However all you're doing is trying to pass blame from a bad trade to bad scouting to pretend the Nolan trade was the better choice of two evils.

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