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Rick Nash - The Frenzy...continues

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:28 PM
  #276
The Amity Affliction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
You're right about Stepan for sure, I should have had made that clearer. I still consider Hagelin a prospect as he only has one NHL season under his belt. Also, I wasn't listing them as the pieces that would come together as part of a Nash deal, just as the some of the pieces that are being thrown around.
I think it's safe to say that Hagelin's a lock to stay. He's probably the 2nd fastest skater in the league (Kreider is even faster than he is... how, I don't know, but it's true) and he's only going to get better. He may max out as a 20-goal 50 or so point player, but he's so versatile that he can slot anywhere in your lineup and give you production. Kinda like how Jere Lehtinen could slot anywhere up and down the Stars lineup for all of those years, give you 25-30 goals and still play Selke Caliber shutdown defense.

Quote:
As for Christian Thomas, I have seen him play. Never in person, so I will admit that there are things I may not caught while watching him. Poor man's version was probably a too harsh, but I do not think that he will be a better player than Cam Atkinson. They seem very similar, but I would take Atkinson over Thomas.
That's fine, you're entitled to think that. I hope Cam succeeds, I watched him in 2 of his 3 seasons at BC (10 & 11 - when Kreider joined) and I'm a big BC fan, my 2nd favorite NCAA team behind the Sioux or whatever they'll end up being called after this mess ends. But Thomas is a kid who potted 54 in the OHL in 2011, and he had a down year due to injuries and a supension. He'll bounce back, but this year is a big year for him. He was drafted 2 years after Atkinson. Atkinson took 4 years to make it to the NHL level.

Same stature, Thomas is 2-3 inches bigger, same weight. Both have tremendous shots and goal scoring ability, both have questions about their size. Atkinson looks like a quicker skater as he's smaller, but that's really about it. They're very similar players in terms of style of play and size. They're a lot more comparable than you think.

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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
But he is an elite goal scorer. Which I point out not to suggest that makes him an elite player, nor that he should return something elite, but that scoring goals is something that holds a good bit of value.


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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Or at least one of them that's stupid enough to stay in this thread.

I know what you're saying, but at the same time, and while I hate to bring up this age old argument, Nash had the least talent surrounding him. Iginla had Tanguay when he scored 50, Ovie has one of the best playmakers in the game in Backstrom, the only one that is close is Kovy, but he didn't have Manny Malhotra as his center, and now he has (maybe had) Parise. I'm not saying Nash is better or even equal to these guys, but I would like to see what he could do with better talent surrounding him.

Just to add, I take all of those players over Nash. Also, Howson is expecting too much, and some fans here are expecting too little. Just my two cents.
While I agree that Nash has had the least talent of the players, I don't think it's that far of gap. Iginla regularly played with Daymond Langkow during that time and in his Ross and Richard winning year in 02, Craig Conroy was his center. Kovalchuk didn't exactly have all world talent centering him either. Ovechkin scored 65 with Backstrom as a rookie, and scored 52 all by himself in Washington, and they were one of the worst teams I've seen in recent years. He outscored the next closest player (Zubrus) by nearly 50 points.

[QUOTE=Double-Shift Lassť;51943291]
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post

That's a joke of a comment and you know it. Ranks right up there with the "idiot" and "insane" rants of Larry Brooks. And NYR fans continuing to parrot this stuff isn't doing anyone any favors.

This appears to be where I am at.
Is it a shot? Absolutely, but not a shot I made, and you know that. We've discussed this.

However, it is an accurate portrayal of how Howson has handle the "negotiations" (I wouldn't call what Howson is doing negotiating) and what he wants the Rangers to give up for Nash.

I'm sorry if you take offense to it, but unless Howson becomes a more reasonable person to deal with, I don't see how it's not valid assessment of the matter at hand.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:28 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Yeah...I tend to agree. Always believed this should/would be the price.

Where it gets muddied is how fans of a "particular" team define top prospect.

To me: Top Prospect means Zbenijad, Schenn types.
Zibanejad.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:28 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
The Wings have 180 forwards signed so far with 18 million left to possibly spend

a deal based on Filppula plus Abdelkader plus a prospect plus a 1st round pick will be hard to match for any team interested in Nash or Ryan
Pretty good deal, no doubt.

It better be if we are trading him within the division.

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07-02-2012, 12:29 PM
  #279
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Would be funny if Nash just bolted to the KHL to play with Radulov.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:29 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
The only reason I say that is injury history.

Realistically, I should have written "close to arguable".
Lets be honest here, Rick Nash isnt made of Steel

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07-02-2012, 12:30 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Marian Gaborik has scored and tallied more assists than Nash while playing with garbage.
Care to name this so called garbage? Judging by his TOI last season he was playing top line minutes behind Richards and Callahan. I seriously doubt he played with as many 3rd and 4th liners as Nash. Also consider that 3rd liners on Columbus are likely 4th line or AHL on most teams. I won't even bother discussing Boll and others.

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07-02-2012, 12:30 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Getsome Clitsome View Post
Why keep harping on Nash's cap hit? Rangers are the king of ****** contracts, should be right up your alley.
Using that logic, why aren't you more receptive to our ****** players?

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:32 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by sexton11 View Post
Lets be honest here, Rick Nash isnt made of Steel
He is more durable though, at least I think so. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I just don't think Gaborik is that much more valuable.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:33 PM
  #284
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Again, I'm not sure why the reported Ranger offer is being mocked. Is there a Nash type player included? Of course not but Howson is not getting a Nash type player back. But it is an offer that helps kick start the rebuild:

1) JT Miller (first round pick). Projects to be a 2 or 3rd line wing who was a PPG player this season. He's also an Ohio kid who at 19 is 6'1 and 200lbs and still growing who has shown leadership qualities. On an ELC and controllable for the foreseeable future.

2) Brandon Dubinsky. Marred by a terrible season but a player who plays hard every shift and would immediately step into CBJ's top 6. Kills penalties. Works along the boards. Adds grit

3) Tim Erixon (first round pick). A two way defender who should be a second pair defenseman but could step right into the CBJ's lineup. Signed at 900k through the 14-15 season and controllable after that.

4) Christian Thomas. Potential boom or bust. Averaged 43 goals, 34 assists and 77 points over the last three seasons in junior.

5) A first round pick. Use it, trade it, move up in the draft every team would want an extra first.

6) At least 2.7M in capspace (including Erixon is on the team and on the cap).

Is it a sexy package? Probably not. But it's a very useful package with three first round picks in it. Most importantly, it's an offer with definite upside.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:34 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
He is more durable though, at least I think so. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I just don't think Gaborik is that much more valuable.
No, I agree.. Gaborik is more valuable, but not by a landslide or anything.. certainly 'debatable'

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07-02-2012, 12:34 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by GScott View Post
Care to name this so called garbage? Judging by his TOI last season he was playing top line minutes behind Richards and Callahan. I seriously doubt he played with as many 3rd and 4th liners as Nash. Also consider that 3rd liners on Columbus are likely 4th line or AHL on most teams. I won't even bother discussing Boll and others.
This season he played with Stepan (good, but not great) and Anisimov (perceived as garbage by Columbus fans) for most of his shifts.

The 2 yrs before? He was a regular fixture with Vaclav Prospal and Eric Christensen. Prospal is a 2nd line player at best and Christensen is a career AHLer who got a gig in the major because he's ridiculously talented at shootouts. When he played with those 2 his first season, he scored 42 goals and 86 pts.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:35 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Nope...Hagelin instead of Miller would do. And I wouldn't really like that....And most CBJ fans wouldn't like it either because there is really no centerpiece. It would just be settling.

Just plug in Miller for Hagelin dude. I mean Miller is a "top" prospect right? Like Hagelin last year but better, right?
Hagelin wasn't considered a top prospect last year so you're wrong before you started.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:35 PM
  #288
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Is he really though? Gaborik is a career .9 ppg player, Nash .81, not night and day but I know who I would rather have.
both?

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:35 PM
  #289
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http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/sjs120702.html

Sharks rumored to offer Ryan Clowe, Joe Pavelski, Marc Edourd Vlasic, and Tomas Hertl (17th overall this year) for Rick Nash....

If this happens I am going to become an alcoholic. Joe Pavelski and a 2nd should do it. Joe Pavelski has more value due to contract and utility. Top-3 faceoff man in the league and a sniper. Rick Nash is great, however not worth that package. The only way I'd even consider that package is if Johansan was coming back too. And thats pushing it.


Rick Nash
Ryan Johansen


Joe Pavelski
Ryane Clowe
Marc-Edouard Vlasic
Tomas Hertl

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07-02-2012, 12:35 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Rick Nash is a much more complete hockey player than Marian Gaborik.
Well congrats to that complete game @ 7.8 million and with 59 points.

I rather have my goalscorer scoring, you know like 7.5 Marian Gaborik is.

Enough with the excuses. Anything below 70 points is NOT elite. I don't give a damn about his linemates. Gaborik had a career year his 1st season with Rangers playing with Prospal (same as Nash) + Christensen (AHLer at best). While Nash having Prospal + Brassard (superior to Christensen, then again who aren't?) scoring +20 points less than what Gaborik did with a worse line.


We got Ryan Callahan who plays a complete game and scores quite often. If we get Nash he better put up at least 70 point per season at that caphit. Shouldn't be a problem since he's ''elite''.

Nash is an elite goalscorer sure, but is he an elite player? Scores alot of goals but rarely reaches +70 points. Sounds quite one dimensional tbh.

Don't get me wrong if Nash came here and played a more complete game than Gaborik I'd be happy. But not at the expense of scoring less than 70 points. If that's the case, keep him.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:36 PM
  #291
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I am sure that the Red Wings phones are off the hook with opposing GM's trying to get their hands on Valterri Filpulla and Justin Abdelkader.
nah they would much rather Dubinksy

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:36 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Again, I'm not sure why the reported Ranger offer is being mocked. Is there a Nash type player included? Of course not but Howson is not getting a Nash type player back. But it is an offer that helps kick start the rebuild:

1) JT Miller (first round pick). Projects to be a 2 or 3rd line wing who was a PPG player this season. He's also an Ohio kid who at 19 is 6'1 and 200lbs and still growing who has shown leadership qualities. On an ELC and controllable for the foreseeable future.

2) Brandon Dubinsky. Marred by a terrible season but a player who plays hard every shift and would immediately step into CBJ's top 6. Kills penalties. Works along the boards. Adds grit

3) Tim Erixon (first round pick). A two way defender who should be a second pair defenseman but could step right into the CBJ's lineup. Signed at 900k through the 14-15 season and controllable after that.

4) Christian Thomas. Potential boom or bust. Averaged 43 goals, 34 assists and 77 points over the last three seasons in junior.

5) A first round pick. Use it, trade it, move up in the draft every team would want an extra first.

6) At least 2.7M in capspace (including Erixon is on the team and on the cap).

Is it a sexy package? Probably not. But it's a very useful package with three first round picks in it. Most importantly, it's an offer with definite upside.
They are not literally offering all of that are they?
Rangers are idiots if they do this.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:37 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
Would be funny if Nash just bolted to the KHL to play with Radulov.
every sportanalyst and CBJ fan would die out of shock.

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07-02-2012, 12:38 PM
  #294
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They are not literally offering all of that are they?
Rangers are idiots if they do this.
Agreed. SBOB, when was the last time 5 quality assets were traded for a player?

Maybe add Johansen....

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07-02-2012, 12:39 PM
  #295
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some of these packages are getting out of hand.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:39 PM
  #296
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Zibanejad.
Yeah...the guy with really f'up last name. I will just call him Z.

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07-02-2012, 12:40 PM
  #297
The Amity Affliction
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Originally Posted by Getsome Clitsome View Post
Why keep harping on Nash's cap hit? Rangers are the king of ****** contracts, should be right up your alley.
Right up our alley in terms of getting rid of them you mean?

So we should trade for a bad contract to get rid of it?

Makes sense, I guess.

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Bottomline is you can't expect him to put up the assist numbers of Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, etc... when he is the only player on the team that can score.
Ovechkin as A ROOKIE scored 52, and outscored the 2nd highest scorer on his team (Zubrus) by 49 points. Ovechkin had one of the top-5 best rookie seasons ever. That Capitals team was garbage. Ovechkin is an elite player. Backstrom about half of this season and Ovechkin STILL HAD 38 GOALS.

You want to call Rick Nash elite, fine. Do it when produces like an elite player, and stop rolling out the excuses for him.

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Rick Nash is a much more complete hockey player than Marian Gaborik.
No he's not.

You just haven't watched Marian Gaborik play at all. Stop commenting on him.

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07-02-2012, 12:40 PM
  #298
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If I was a Rangers fan, most I could stomach is 1st round pick, Carl Hagelin and J.T. Miller for Nash.

Any more than that and you are just mortgaging too much young talent.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:40 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Again, I'm not sure why the reported Ranger offer is being mocked. Is there a Nash type player included? Of course not but Howson is not getting a Nash type player back. But it is an offer that helps kick start the rebuild:

1) JT Miller (first round pick). Projects to be a 2 or 3rd line wing who was a PPG player this season. He's also an Ohio kid who at 19 is 6'1 and 200lbs and still growing who has shown leadership qualities. On an ELC and controllable for the foreseeable future.

2) Brandon Dubinsky. Marred by a terrible season but a player who plays hard every shift and would immediately step into CBJ's top 6. Kills penalties. Works along the boards. Adds grit

3) Tim Erixon (first round pick). A two way defender who should be a second pair defenseman but could step right into the CBJ's lineup. Signed at 900k through the 14-15 season and controllable after that.

4) Christian Thomas. Potential boom or bust. Averaged 43 goals, 34 assists and 77 points over the last three seasons in junior.

5) A first round pick. Use it, trade it, move up in the draft every team would want an extra first.

6) At least 2.7M in capspace (including Erixon is on the team and on the cap).

Is it a sexy package? Probably not. But it's a very useful package with three first round picks in it. Most importantly, it's an offer with definite upside.
I've answered this several times I'm only going to be brief.

Too many longshot pieces involved.

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07-02-2012, 12:41 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by sweHockeypunk21 View Post
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/sjs120702.html

Sharks rumored to offer Ryan Clowe, Joe Pavelski, Marc Edourd Vlasic, and Tomas Hertl (17th overall this year) for Rick Nash....

If this happens I am going to become an alcoholic. Joe Pavelski and a 2nd should do it. Joe Pavelski has more value due to contract and utility. Top-3 faceoff man in the league and a sniper. Rick Nash is great, however not worth that package. The only way I'd even consider that package is if Johansan was coming back too. And thats pushing it.


Rick Nash
Ryan Johansen


Joe Pavelski
Ryane Clowe
Marc-Edouard Vlasic
Tomas Hertl
If that's the deal that Columbus was offered they would be FOOLS not to take it.

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