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Why no enforcer on the Leafs?

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:17 AM
  #26
Hurt
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
Sorry I just don't see it that way. With the amount of ice time the 4th line should be getting it won't matter having a guy like Komarov, I would rather have a guy on the bench who will come over the boards and install the fear of god into players then a guy who's going to go out and Yap like a lap dog all night aka Colby Armstrong.
So you're saying a guy who plays all of 3 minutes a night and can barely skate is more important than a guy who can bring energy, forecheck, skate hard and maybe create a chance like a Komarov or a healthy Armstrong? What happens when everyone turns down the chance to fight a guy whose job is solely that? What happens when the other team doesn't have a guy who fights other goons? You can't just grab a guy and start hitting him.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:35 AM
  #27
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I would rather we improved our team toughness, then just having 1-2 guys doing all the fighting etc. I am hoping we can land players that can play and will fight at least sometimes via free agency, but the pickings are thin, especially after Day 1 has past, so hopefully Burkie can do it via trade.

An enforcer that I think can skate a regular shift without embarrassing himself would be Boulton.

But 2 guys that can play and will fights sometimes are Matt Bradley and Tom Kostopoulos. I say we go hard after 1 of these 2 guys to replace Crabb on the 4th line and provide more toughness then him.

Tom Kostopoulos fights sometimes and sticks up for his teammates, but he is only an average fighter though. But he is a good leader in the room, we lacked leadership last season, and we loss Armstrong so he could come in and give us leadership in the room. He is also defensively responsible.

Matt Bradley fights sometimes. Good size, rugged, agitating qualities.

So Tom Kostopoulos, or Matt Bradley (preferably Bradley) are 2 guys I want to see replace Crabb on the 4th line, then bring in a guy like Boulton (Barch maybe) to be our enforcer maybe if they play good in camp and be our 13th forward and we just play them against tough teams.

On the back end a guy I would love to see us get is Jim Vandermeer. He fights, is physical, and tough as nails. I would love to have him as a bottom pairing, or 7th defenceman. As it stands now it looks like Fraser is our 7th defenceman, but if Holzer plays good enough this Fall, he could be that guy.

Brad Winchester is another guy I am interested in kind of for the 4th line position. I see him as a career depth guy, while I see Tom and Bradley as more then that in their careers, but overall Winchester might have the edge right now. Plus he is big, fights sometimes and is rugged. But I would probably prefer Bradley or Tom more because I think over the rest of their career they are going to be regular NHLers while I see Winchester as a depth guy.

If we brought in via free agency, Bradley, Vandermeer and Boulton, I would be one happy camper.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:52 AM
  #28
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I kind of scoffed at the outcry after the draft of all our rivals got centres.

Today our rivals got tougher, with Prust, Latendresse and Scott.
Detroit even got Tootoo.

Burke and the MT made little due to: lack of high end talent, and that's fine, but I still
felt that toughness should be addressed. The 2nd reason, our cap space, it was the
#1 reason why Burke said the Leafs will address their needs via trading.

It still kind of hurt to see these players signing elsewhere.

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07-02-2012, 12:57 AM
  #29
DirtyDion03
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The hell's wrong with Colton Orr?

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07-02-2012, 03:53 AM
  #30
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Anyone else think, like I do, that Montreal has had the best offseason in this division, hands down? Drafted Alex Galchenyuk, Sebastian Collberg, and Dalton Thrower (all players I really wanted Burke to take) and signed Brandon Prust (another player I'd hoped Burke would sign).

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07-02-2012, 05:44 AM
  #31
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We have an enforcer. His name is Tim.

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Old
07-02-2012, 06:00 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
Anyone else think, like I do, that Montreal has had the best offseason in this division, hands down? Drafted Alex Galchenyuk, Sebastian Collberg, and Dalton Thrower (all players I really wanted Burke to take) and signed Brandon Prust (another player I'd hoped Burke would sign).
Bergevin has had a fine start, absolutely. However, I actually like Washington's take during the same period a little more amongst a few clubs. Could go back to the 2012 7th round pick for Vokoun, or the acquisition of former first round selection, Zach Hamill, but I'll start from Draft Day...

Capitals acquire Mike Riberio for Eakin and a 2012 2nd.

Draft #1 ranked European skater in Filip Forsberg at 11, Tom Wilson at 15 and by the end of the 2012 Entry Draft, make ten selections in total.

Hire Adam Oates as their head coach who has spent the past three seasons as an Asst. Coach with 2012 Stanley Cup Finalist, New Jersey. An offensive minded, very intelligent player who has been groomed in New Jersey's mindset...A very smart pick by a very underrated VP/GM in McPhee.

With Wideman not in the Capitals plans, they move his rights to Calgary for a 5th round selection in the 2013 Entry Draft and defenceman Jordan Henry to augment their AHL depth.

Sign Joey Crabb

I think Riberio is a better player than any FA signing thus far, and every asset that can be mined for quality,has been. Couple that movement with the hiring of Oates and I think we're seeing a very good club, motivated by signs of success in a solid playoff run get better in exactly the areas it needed to.

Off-season performance thus far, Id rank as:

1.Washington
2.Carolina
3.Pittsburgh
4.Toronto
5.Montreal
6.Edmonton

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07-02-2012, 06:12 AM
  #33
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Orr will get a chance to show he's still got it. He looked healthy with the Marlies. Just not sure he can take a punch though.

Rosehill is still a possibility. I just don't like him as a player at all.

I'd rather get some medium/light weights that fight in the moment rather than get a heavy weight that just fights in set up fights.

I guess Mike Brown will get a bit more fighting time this upcoming year.

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Old
07-02-2012, 06:48 AM
  #34
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Burke should offer sheet Matt Martin

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07-02-2012, 07:27 AM
  #35
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Belak was the perfect enforcer, could play both D and forward in a pinch in case of injuries in a game. A real character too. The only thing missing was being a shootout specialist. Miss him. RIP.

Brown is getting better and better at fighting. He isn't in that Battleship class yet, but he can hold his own against most enforcers.

I would prefer to have him take care of things and have a few big skill guys that will drop them if needed, but it is not their reason for being on the team.

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Old
07-02-2012, 07:34 AM
  #36
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With Carlyle as coach, I would think Colton Orr would get some playing time on the fourth line.

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07-02-2012, 07:42 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crump View Post
Belak was the perfect enforcer, could play both D and forward in a pinch in case of injuries in a game.
So could John Scott who the Sabres just signed for 1 year/600K (but as far as hockey skills go he's no Belak). I think he would have been useful on Marlies or fill-in for Leaf injuries. Now playing for the Sabres you will be treated next year to Orr's last fight.

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07-02-2012, 07:49 AM
  #38
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In what games last year could anyone have honestly said we would of won or an enforcer would have made a difference?

The middleweight div seems more popular if anything these days and we have Brown who can also play hockey as well

Orr & Rosehill are 2 of most useless wastes of icetime

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Old
07-02-2012, 07:50 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ITM View Post
Bergevin has had a fine start, absolutely. However, I actually like Washington's take during the same period a little more amongst a few clubs. Could go back to the 2012 7th round pick for Vokoun, or the acquisition of former first round selection, Zach Hamill, but I'll start from Draft Day...

Capitals acquire Mike Riberio for Eakin and a 2012 2nd.

Draft #1 ranked European skater in Filip Forsberg at 11, Tom Wilson at 15 and by the end of the 2012 Entry Draft, make ten selections in total.

Hire Adam Oates as their head coach who has spent the past three seasons as an Asst. Coach with 2012 Stanley Cup Finalist, New Jersey. An offensive minded, very intelligent player who has been groomed in New Jersey's mindset...A very smart pick by a very underrated VP/GM in McPhee.

With Wideman not in the Capitals plans, they move his rights to Calgary for a 5th round selection in the 2013 Entry Draft and defenceman Jordan Henry to augment their AHL depth.

Sign Joey Crabb

I think Riberio is a better player than any FA signing thus far, and every asset that can be mined for quality,has been. Couple that movement with the hiring of Oates and I think we're seeing a very good club, motivated by signs of success in a solid playoff run get better in exactly the areas it needed to.

Off-season performance thus far, Id rank as:

1.Washington
2.Carolina
3.Pittsburgh
4.Toronto
5.Montreal
6.Edmonton
No way Toronto gets third on that list. Edmonton signing Schultz blows anything T.O. did away. Schultz > Jay.

Montreal had a good draft but this isn't about the draft. Signing Armstrong is questionable and Prust for all his willingnees, 20 fighting majors last year, loses more than he wins. I don't think Montreal ldid anything special other than make some moves to appease there fan base.

Washington got Ribero but is poised to lose Semin. Semin has lost favor but Rebiro is cut from the same cloth.

Carolina got Staal because they had his brother on the team.

All in all I don't see any clear cut winners yet. Parise, Suter, Doan etc. will be the ones that define that.

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:06 AM
  #40
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Id rather not have a pure enforcer/ one trick pony. Team toughness is important, and having hockey players who have heart and ability to drop the gloves when required is important.. But not meat heads on skates. I didnt mind Orr purely because he didnt "hurt" the team but he didnt contribute anything beyond fighting either.

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07-02-2012, 08:08 AM
  #41
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Burkie say in one of his recent press conferences that he would like to be able to bring back Orr and give him a shot?, I think If some of the kids are up (Kadri, Colborne etc) Its going to be needed for Orr to show his face on the ice once in a while to protect the younger guys.

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07-02-2012, 08:22 AM
  #42
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Orr will be given another chance, and I think Burke will re-sign Rosehill.

I hope one of them will be our 13th forward.

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07-02-2012, 02:50 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by stanleyorbust View Post
Id rather not have a pure enforcer/ one trick pony. Team toughness is important, and having hockey players who have heart and ability to drop the gloves when required is important.. But not meat heads on skates. I didnt mind Orr purely because he didnt "hurt" the team but he didnt contribute anything beyond fighting either.
Why is having an enforcer and team toughness mutually exclusive? It doesn't have to be either Orr.

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07-02-2012, 02:58 PM
  #44
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Enforcers are a dime a dozen type player. You could pick up an enforcer 2 weeks into free agency, when the well has dried up and they are itching for a chance.

If you want to amuse yourself in 2 weeks, go to capgeek and scroll all the way down to the bottom of free agents still available.

Guys like Eric Godard, Brad Winchester, Byron Bitz, etc. will still be there. Teams want them, but the guys that can give you 10+ quality minutes are going to be signed first like the Tootoo's and Aaron Rome's of the world.

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Old
07-02-2012, 03:19 PM
  #45
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I'm actually pretty shocked that Parros isn't a Leaf right now. Just...expected it.

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07-02-2012, 03:24 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
No Orr was sent down because Wilson doesn't believe in enforcers, he said it before he signed in Toronto.
if Orr was a capable NHL player that didn't need to fight to stay in the league he would not have been sent down. he's not a good enough player to play in the NHL period thats why he got sent down. they didn't send him down because he was good enough to play in the NHL but they didn't like the fact that he got into fights...

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Old
07-02-2012, 04:06 PM
  #47
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Orr is not an NHL level player thats why he got sent down
If he's not then neither was Kuleminm Lombardi, and Connolly last year.

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Old
07-02-2012, 04:16 PM
  #48
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Some of you guys are nuts. Orr a waste of a roster a spot? Wtf is everyone smoking this long weekend?

The guy enforces like there was no tomorrow, he's one of the most destructive fighters in the NHL.

Last year he was sent down when he was semi-hurt. Recalling him would make him available to re-entry waivers. Rosehill can't enforce, Brown can't enforce.

We need an enforcer, yes the days of the heavyweights are almost over, but if you at least have a guy like that on the bench, it will make other teams think twice.

Burke should not have hired Wilson, he knew going in that Wilson likes euro style hockey, he was handcuffed. Hopefully now with Carlyle, Orr will have his roster spot back.

For anyone that says you don't need toughness to win, just look at Boston, LA, and to an extent this year, the Rangers and Devils.

Boston - Lucic, Thornton, McQuaid
NJ - Boulton, Janssen
LA - Westgarth, Clifford
NYR - Rupp, Prust, Bickel, Scott

Detroit hasn't had anything tough or even close to tough for a few years, and now they have Tootoo.

Even Montreal, the smurfs of the NHL realize you need some balls on your team, hence the re-signing Moen, White and signing Prust.

Rangers lose Prust and Scott, and promptly sign Asham and Haley.

Actually you can look at every team that made the playoffs, at least in the east, and every single one had AT LEAST 1 enforcer.

Heavyweights are becoming extinct, but there is still a huge need for enforcers, let's not fool ourselves.

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07-02-2012, 04:50 PM
  #49
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In our best years 2000 - 2004 we had guys like Gary Roberts, Shayne Corson, Darcy Tucker (still paying him) Tie Domi, Travis Green, we still need truculence. It just has to be in guys that can play hockey minutes. None of these guys were liabilities on the ice. Prust is similar except now he is overpaid as a FA. I hope Brad Ross can develop into a Tucker, Tyler Biggs may develop into a poor mans Gary Roberts, and we need more of these guys. We need more of these guys, but they have to be able to play hockey. Hopefully Jamie Devane can develop into a fouth line hockey player who can stand up for teammates but be able to play hockey as well.

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07-02-2012, 05:17 PM
  #50
Crash Test Domi
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In our best years 2000 - 2004 we had guys like Gary Roberts, Shayne Corson, Darcy Tucker (still paying him) Tie Domi, Travis Green, we still need truculence. It just has to be in guys that can play hockey minutes. None of these guys were liabilities on the ice. Prust is similar except now he is overpaid as a FA. I hope Brad Ross can develop into a Tucker, Tyler Biggs may develop into a poor mans Gary Roberts, and we need more of these guys. We need more of these guys, but they have to be able to play hockey. Hopefully Jamie Devane can develop into a fouth line hockey player who can stand up for teammates but be able to play hockey as well.
Devane has been pegged, by Leafs Nation mind you, as the next Lucic. Power-forwards like some of the guys you mentioned are even more rare than an actual heavyweight enforcer in the league.

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