HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Day 1 — Best and Worst Moves

View Poll Results: Best and worst moves
Best: Colby Armstrong (1 x 1) 59 27.57%
Best: Brandon Prust (4 x 2.5) 92 42.99%
Best: Francis Bouillon (1 x 1.5) 8 3.74%
Worst: Colby Armstrong (1 x 1) 12 5.61%
Worst: Brandon Prust (4 x 2.5) 26 12.15%
Worst: Francis Bouillon (1 x 1.5) 55 25.70%
There is no worst, I like all of these moves 105 49.07%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 214. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-02-2012, 03:27 PM
  #101
RoyBoyCoy
Habs and Rugby
 
RoyBoyCoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lennoxville, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,090
vCash: 500
Bouillon isn't really the "worst", it just seems weird and useless. Prust is the best.

RoyBoyCoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2012, 03:35 PM
  #102
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What is with Hab fans wanting to bring back players? Halpern is old and on his last legs. Penner wanted to sign with the Kings. Parenteau played with Tavares. Habs do not have a player of Tavares' ilk to prop up Parenteau's numbers. We need a guy that can put the puck in the net, not dish the puck.

Kostitsyn is not a top 6 player. He's not needed.

Moore is not a 4th line centerman. He also is dealing with his wife's sickness. McClement I'll give you but maybe he was targeted and signed with the Leafs. Who knows?

The money's there to sign a top 6 winger. There just aren't any that are available in free agency except for Semin and Parise.
Kostitsyn reliably scores about 40-50th in the league for left or right wings without giving up lots of goals against in reasonably hard minutes. He also does more on even strength than the power play which is a plus. Did that this year, did that the year before and the year before that and so on. He's the textbook definition of a league average 2nd line winger. Better than Bourque and the team is much better if one of them is playing with Eller. Penner is pretty good just had a bad regular season. Pareneau won't score 67 in Montreal, but he's good enough that 4 million to be a top sixer and score 45-50 points is decent value. Montreal has a bunch of shooters, they can use any kind of offense.

None of these guys are perfect but they fill a need. Also they aren't in on Jagr and probably won't be in on Semin or Parise in a significant way.

Halpern played shutdown minutes and penalty killing in Washington and came out close to even, just like he did in Montreal. He's far from "done." He's a quality player.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2012, 03:41 PM
  #103
Forlando
Registered User
 
Forlando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
In order for this to be an 'analysis', you'd need to look at how many of those injuries were a result of the supposed 'headhunting' that became such a regular occurrence.
I think you missed the point...royally.

Forlando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2012, 04:05 PM
  #104
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forlando View Post
I think you missed the point...royally.
Nope. You claimed that Montreal got pushed around and thus were easily injured somehow, due to all of these supposed cheapshots. I'm asking you how many man games were lost due to cheapshots.

If you didn't intend to make that point, however, then by all means feel free to retract it.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2012, 04:10 PM
  #105
WeeBey
Registered User
 
WeeBey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I realize that and I don't hold that against him, but everyone has to realize that Bergevin can load up on fourth-liner all he wants, right now his roster is subpar and he needs to do something about it.

Or decide to tank, I suppose.
Okay, so what should Bergevin done instead? Shell out big money for a copy of Semin?

I'd also like to hear the argument against trying to solidify your bottom six, especially when the available top six players in this year's free agency is pretty damn limited.

WeeBey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2012, 04:15 PM
  #106
Uwey
Registered User
 
Uwey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lunenburg, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 551
vCash: 500
Frankie playing in Montreal isn't exactly what would make me happy, buuuuuuuuut, send him to Hamilton to mentor the kids on the ice next season, especially Beaulieu & I would be a very, very happy camper about his role there!!!

Prust, yup, overpaid a bit, but this guy can easily play third line minutes, while taking care of his line mates & give them some extra time & ice to play. If Eller is bound to be our third line center & Leblanc plays the other side, Prust will be worth every penney to those kids. Plus, he is a very serviceable PKer.

Armstrong, he can certainly get in on top of the oppositions D taking time away from there ability to setup & making them hesitate just a bit. Same goes for Prust.

Blunden I suspect will start in Hamilton, giving the kids a veteran presence to play with, maybe get a call up to plug holes if injuries become an issue again.

Chances are, with Moen, White, Armstrong & Prust working their butts off in camp, Bourque could very easily find himself in Hamilton, although I`m not sure I would want him & his attitude around the young Hamilton lineup.

Uwey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2012, 04:39 PM
  #107
Forlando
Registered User
 
Forlando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Nope. You claimed that Montreal got pushed around and thus were easily injured somehow, due to all of these supposed cheapshots. I'm asking you how many man games were lost due to cheapshots.

If you didn't intend to make that point, however, then by all means feel free to retract it.
No, I wasn't referring solely to cheap shot...I was referring to our team constantly being on the receiving end of the hits. I might have induced you in error by using the expression head hunting, but I was referring to hits of all nature.

When players (specially small ones, like the ones we have) get hit repeatedly in a 82 game season, the risk of injury grows exponentially.

That's what I was referring to.

Forlando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2012, 08:52 PM
  #108
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I'm quite unimpressed by Bergevin's work so far.

Now, he hasn't made any franchise-crippling moves, and the players the Habs should want are still on the board, so to speak, so this is a somewhat incomplete opinion and he certainly can turn it around.

Even if he does, however, this day has just been very weak. Bergevin has basically been wasteful. Instead of targeting areas where the Habs actually had need (like that gaping hole in the top-6's LW), he just loaded even more fourth-liners and third-pairing defensemen to an already bottom-heavy club that had no need of them. If he'd stopped after Armstrong at one million, that would've been all right -- he's a decent enough fourth-liner with upside -- but then there was no need to give too much money and too much term to a guy like Brandon Prust or bring back Bouillon for purely sentimental reasons.

Best move would be Armstrong, somewhat by default -- a low-risk flier on a guy who's been better in the past, though if you're going to do that, Latendresse would have been a better choice. Worst would be Prust, easily one of the worst signings of the day, up there with Kuba to Florida.

None of these players actually filled a genuine need on the club. Bergevin leaves July 1st with exactly the same amount of work needing to be done as when he entered it, except now he has less cap space to fill the holes the Habs really need filling.

At least everyone he's signed can at least play at a minimal level, no Staubitz-type goons in the lot. But loading the club with "grit" players points to an old-school, Brian-Burkesque mentality that won't get the club very far either. As it is, the roster is still worse than the one they started 2011-2012 with, and Bergevin has done little to correct that.

So: incomplete, but negative, and the overall direciton is worrying.
Or maybe he's given up on the silliness that is free agency and we finally have a guy who understands that we should build through the draft...

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 10:35 AM
  #109
WG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Or maybe he's given up on the silliness that is free agency and we finally have a guy who understands that we should build through the draft...
LG, you are at least consistent in this thought process, so I'll give you that.

But why can't it be both? I would agree with you that the worst possible outcome right now would be to trade picks/prospects to acquire a stogap player. But what's wrong with signing Jagr/Doan to short deals (1-3 yrs) for example? Doing so a) gives Eller at least one half decent scorer to work with and b) makes it less likely that the team rushes Leblanc/Gallagher and gives them the 4 min a night treatment in the NHL.

I see this UFA period so far as a pretty big 'meh' but this does get a lot better if MB goes out and fixes the crying need for top 9 scoring. Currently Eller is going to have Moen and Palushaj/Armstrong for wingers and I'm afraid the young man is going to throw himself off the top of the Bell Centre. And given options of sign a UFA like Semin (or AK, for that matter) vs. trade for one, I'll take the UFA and keep the picks/prospects.

WG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 01:29 PM
  #110
capnk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I'm quite unimpressed by Bergevin's work so far.

Now, he hasn't made any franchise-crippling moves, and the players the Habs should want are still on the board, so to speak, so this is a somewhat incomplete opinion and he certainly can turn it around.

Even if he does, however, this day has just been very weak. Bergevin has basically been wasteful. Instead of targeting areas where the Habs actually had need (like that gaping hole in the top-6's LW), he just loaded even more fourth-liners and third-pairing defensemen to an already bottom-heavy club that had no need of them. If he'd stopped after Armstrong at one million, that would've been all right -- he's a decent enough fourth-liner with upside -- but then there was no need to give too much money and too much term to a guy like Brandon Prust or bring back Bouillon for purely sentimental reasons.

Best move would be Armstrong, somewhat by default -- a low-risk flier on a guy who's been better in the past, though if you're going to do that, Latendresse would have been a better choice. Worst would be Prust, easily one of the worst signings of the day, up there with Kuba to Florida.

None of these players actually filled a genuine need on the club. Bergevin leaves July 1st with exactly the same amount of work needing to be done as when he entered it, except now he has less cap space to fill the holes the Habs really need filling.

At least everyone he's signed can at least play at a minimal level, no Staubitz-type goons in the lot. But loading the club with "grit" players points to an old-school, Brian-Burkesque mentality that won't get the club very far either. As it is, the roster is still worse than the one they started 2011-2012 with, and Bergevin has done little to correct that.

So: incomplete, but negative, and the overall direciton is worrying.
One step at a time MathMan, one step at a time. Bergeving couldn't have addressed EVERY need for the team in just one day. This team requires a few years to fix what's wrong.
The biggest need he addressed on July 1st was character. You can't have enough character in the room. So important.

capnk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 01:49 PM
  #111
glenn77
Registered User
 
glenn77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Country: Canada
Posts: 163
vCash: 500
sorry for my lack of knowledge but can someone breakdown for me what is a "front-loaded contract"..? I hear the term quite a bit but not exactly sure if it is meaning bonus's or what...

glenn77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 02:38 PM
  #112
WeThreeKings
DJ Nikita
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,487
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn77 View Post
sorry for my lack of knowledge but can someone breakdown for me what is a "front-loaded contract"..? I hear the term quite a bit but not exactly sure if it is meaning bonus's or what...
A front loaded contract is like this.. say someone signs a 6 year deal.

Season 1-10 Mill
Season 2-10 Mill
Season 3- 10 Mill
Season 4 - 10 Mill
Season 5 - 2.5 mill
Season 6. 2.5 mill

Cap hit is 7.5, but the player makes the majority of his money in the first few years of his contract.

WeThreeKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 05:00 PM
  #113
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnk View Post
One step at a time MathMan, one step at a time. Bergeving couldn't have addressed EVERY need for the team in just one day. The biggest need he addressed on July 1st was character. You can't have enough character in the room. So important.
See, I don't think that was a need, inasmuch as "character" is actually an identifiable quality and the players he added had significantly more of it than the players who left, rather than a buzzword ascribed to every grinder and hitty bottom-pairing D-man under the sun.

From my standpoint he added two fourth-liners and a bottom-pairing D-man. Those weren't needs. Those were actually areas where the team had extra, especially the D. All they do is make the roster much too bottom-heavy. If MB is going to ship off the excess, then sure, it works, although Prust remains overpaid over an unnecessary long term. But he's made no moves in that direction either.

I recognize that he can't address all needs in one day, but he's been burning money (and too much of it) on guys in roles the team already had filled, and has yet to address the holes in the roster that are far more impactful. Like, say, that gaping hole on Plekanec's left wing.


Last edited by MathMan: 07-03-2012 at 05:13 PM.
MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 07:31 PM
  #114
WeeBey
Registered User
 
WeeBey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I recognize that he can't address all needs in one day, but he's been burning money (and too much of it) on guys in roles the team already had filled, and has yet to address the holes in the roster that are far more impactful. Like, say, that gaping hole on Plekanec's left wing.
How could you believe that last year's top six could possibly be better than what we're slated to have next year? As the Bruins, Kings and Ducks have shown, you need a good all-round team to win. All those teams had strong third and fourth lines.

If you can't improve on the top lines (which we can't, really) then work on solidifying our checking lines.

WeeBey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 07:42 PM
  #115
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
How could you believe that last year's top six could possibly be better than what we're slated to have next year?
Are you serious? They had Cammalleri in the first LW spot and they had Kostitsyn as an injury replacement/extra. Both are better than Bourque, Cammalleri by a wide margin.

They went from a situation where Kostitsyn was their 5th winger to a situation where Bourque is their 4th winger. That is, assuming he's actually better than Leblanc, which I'm not entirely convinced of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
As the Bruins, Kings and Ducks have shown, you need a good all-round team to win. All those teams had strong third and fourth lines.
It's really hard to build a strong third line with a bunch of fourth-liners. Who are going to be Eller's wingers? Moen? Prust? Armstrong? He's gonna be pining for AKost.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 08:11 PM
  #116
WeeBey
Registered User
 
WeeBey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Are you serious? They had Cammalleri in the first LW spot and they had Kostitsyn as an injury replacement/extra. Both are better than Bourque, Cammalleri by a wide margin.

They went from a situation where Kostitsyn was their 5th winger to a situation where Bourque is their 4th winger. That is, assuming he's actually better than Leblanc, which I'm not entirely convinced of.
Meant to write bottom six. My bad.

Quote:
It's really hard to build a strong third line with a bunch of fourth-liners. Who are going to be Eller's wingers? Moen? Prust? Armstrong? He's gonna be pining for AKost.
AKost is no longer part of the organization. That was a dynamite third line and JM broke them up for whatever reason. The bottom six in the second half of the season was god awful and what we're gonna have on the bottom this year is infinitely better

Moen is a very good third liner. 07 Ducks?

WeeBey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 09:54 PM
  #117
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Meant to write bottom six. My bad.
Kostitsyn was in the bottom six and he's significantly better than anyone they got. Moen is worth Moen. White is worth White. Darche is a more versatile hockey player than Prust. Armstrong is a nice pickup, but that's slim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
AKost is no longer part of the organization. That was a dynamite third line and JM broke them up for whatever reason. The bottom six in the second half of the season was god awful and what we're gonna have on the bottom this year is infinitely better
Well, admittedly, once the Habs had been decimated by injuries and Gauthier's sell-off, the roster was outright terrible. I should hope that would not be the baseline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeBey View Post
Moen is a very good third liner. 07 Ducks?
He's a good defensive-oriented third-liner or a deluxe fourth-liner. Not the ideal wingman for Eller, but serviceable, and a guy who can take tough minutes in a pinch. Easily the best of the bottom-six once you get past Eller.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2012, 09:27 AM
  #118
capnk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
See, I don't think that was a need, inasmuch as "character" is actually an identifiable quality and the players he added had significantly more of it than the players who left, rather than a buzzword ascribed to every grinder and hitty bottom-pairing D-man under the sun.

From my standpoint he added two fourth-liners and a bottom-pairing D-man. Those weren't needs. Those were actually areas where the team had extra, especially the D. All they do is make the roster much too bottom-heavy. If MB is going to ship off the excess, then sure, it works, although Prust remains overpaid over an unnecessary long term. But he's made no moves in that direction either.

I recognize that he can't address all needs in one day, but he's been burning money (and too much of it) on guys in roles the team already had filled, and has yet to address the holes in the roster that are far more impactful. Like, say, that gaping hole on Plekanec's left wing.
There's stilll time, the season is a long way away. He has some assets that can be traded for a top six forward. We'll see what he does. Then his plan will be more clear.

I think all teams need character. It's a quality as you say, that you cannot have enough of in a team environment. Buzzword maybe, but it's still a very important part of any individual who is part of a team.
I see the additions on July 1st as a step in the right direction.

capnk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2012, 10:31 AM
  #119
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Darche is a more versatile hockey player than Prust.
i get not liking a move... but let's not go overboard in the exagerations.

Unless you have a very unique definition of the word "versatile", it is absurd to argue that M.Darche is able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities better/more effectively than Prust

just b/c J.M thought Darche could be a useful PP contributor, doesn't actually make him such... and Prust is Darche's equal, if not superior, in just about every other facet of the game.

Don't be mistaken to think that just b/c Prust is a capable and willing fighter, that he automatically is useless in other areas or has no hockey sense. Prust is an ideal bottom-6 player in large part b/c of his versatility... his ability to bring layers of physical play while also contributing positively in regular 5/5 & PK roles.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.