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The Nash Thread IV (All things Nash here)

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Old
07-12-2012, 10:48 PM
  #951
Crede777
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
So just to stir the pot a bit and play off of Xoggz & Capn's proposal-Let's say Nash stays. We trade for Ryan.
Now we have 2 bona fide goal scorers which makes it harder for teams to always throw their top 2 at Nash. Even if we have to trade Johansen + Tyutin.

Nash-Brass-Atkinson
Ryan-Letestu-Umberger
Prospal-Foligno-Dorsett
Gilles-Mackenzie-Boll

JJ-Wiz
Nikitin-Aucoin
Moore-Murray (hey we drafted him to be NHL ready)
Savard/Holden

Still not a Cup contender D is weaker, offense a bit stronger. I wouldn't give up LA's 1 for Ryan - either a #2 or a prospect if Johansen and Tyutin weren't enough.

Thoughts? Let's assume for purposes of this discussion we take Nash staying as a given and that he is not a disruption.
Do we think Johansen + Tyutin is enough to land Ryan? I don't...

From what the Dispatch has said, sounds like Howson is only sitting on his asking price for Nash and that's it -- no more big trades or UFA signings.

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07-12-2012, 11:08 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Do we think Johansen + Tyutin is enough to land Ryan? I don't...

From what the Dispatch has said, sounds like Howson is only sitting on his asking price for Nash and that's it -- no more big trades or UFA signings.
Dispatch has said if the CBJ only land 1 forward in the nash trade they will explore free agents again,

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Old
07-12-2012, 11:13 PM
  #953
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I slotted in what i think howson will get back in the nash trade:

umberger-brassard-huselius
foligno-johansen-prospal
dorsett-letestu-atkinson
gillies-mackenzie-boll

lots of LWs but i think prospal would motivate johansen and huselius is not likely to wait until the nash thing is resolved before signing somewhere + he is the best bet for adding a top line scorer.

also agree that dan ellis would be a good backup signing. even seeing mason sitting on the bench pissed me off last year

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Old
07-12-2012, 11:31 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by jacketsinDC View Post
I slotted in what i think howson will get back in the nash trade:

umberger-brassard-huselius
foligno-johansen-prospal
dorsett-letestu-atkinson
gillies-mackenzie-boll

lots of LWs but i think prospal would motivate johansen and huselius is not likely to wait until the nash thing is resolved before signing somewhere + he is the best bet for adding a top line scorer.

also agree that dan ellis would be a good backup signing. even seeing mason sitting on the bench pissed me off last year
Uhhh, so...nobody?

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07-13-2012, 12:08 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
Uhhh, so...nobody?
Perhaps Howson didn't trade him and he is holding out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Dispatch has said if the CBJ only land 1 forward in the nash trade they will explore free agents again,
Are there any good UFA's remaining? Doan=no chance and Semin = they said Howson wasn't interested.

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Old
07-13-2012, 01:05 AM
  #956
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Uhhh, so...nobody?

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Old
07-13-2012, 04:56 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
One thing worth thinking about, for those of you who think Nash may be disgruntled if he has to return to the club:

Maybe this is already a scenario that both parties have let play out? Maybe this is why Nasher hasn't expanded his list; he has to go to one of these teams to be willing to leave here? Maybe Scott Howson knows that if he doesn't get every ounce of what he's asking for, he'll still have an excellent player coming to camp ready to compete with the team?

Just some food for thought
I posited something very similar a couple days ago. I think it is at least a possibility.

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Old
07-13-2012, 06:58 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I posited something very similar a couple days ago. I think it is at least a possibility.
Given the perceived lack of urgency, it certainly seems possible.

Outwardly, neither side seems to be acting like this needs done now, which means their either 1) lying or 2) not lying.

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07-13-2012, 06:59 AM
  #959
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I have a work obligation until noon-ish. Don't get to Rick Nash V without me!

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Old
07-13-2012, 07:11 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
Uhhh, so...nobody?
He left off "and a bag of pucks".

And may I also say "and since the other thread was closed" (wtf)
I propose we close them all except for "Fire Howson".

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:00 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Dispatch has said if the CBJ only land 1 forward in the nash trade they will explore free agents again,
Hopefully there will be a lot available in 2013

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:19 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I posited something very similar a couple days ago. I think it is at least a possibility.
Sorry, didn't see it

I think at this point anything is possible. Clearly, Rick is pretty set on where he wants to play, and I think we should at least give him the benefit of the doubt that he played out the year without going Dany Heatley on us and publicly demanding a trade.

Honestly, he's been classy about this the entire way. I'll be a huge fan of his no matter what sweater he dawns next year.

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:25 AM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
He left off "and a bag of pucks".

And may I also say "and since the other thread was closed" (wtf)
I propose we close them all except for "Fire Howson".
The other thread was closed because 1) the poll results were clear and 2) it was a redundant discussion with this one. Sam explained it in the final post.

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:26 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Sorry, didn't see it

I think at this point anything is possible. Clearly, Rick is pretty set on where he wants to play, and I think we should at least give him the benefit of the doubt that he played out the year without going Dany Heatley on us and publicly demanding a trade.

Honestly, he's been classy about this the entire way. I'll be a huge fan of his no matter what sweater he dawns next year.
No worries. Wasn't my point - just to agree that it's a possibility.

And to try to get us to Nash V before Kallio gets back.

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:26 AM
  #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
He left off "and a bag of pucks".

And may I also say "and since the other thread was closed" (wtf)
I propose we close them all except for "Fire Howson".
Yeah aren't they all pretty much a "Nash Thread" anyway?

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:30 AM
  #966
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Been out of country for 3 weeks. Upon return I see not a lot has changed. I do not fault Howson for holding out to get reasonable compensation for Nash. I do fault him for doing his usual, half complete off season. The failure to get rid of Mason, totally, completely and unequivocally, is inexplicable. The failure to think to the future when looking at forwards is again very Howsonesque. Once more, another "Incomplete", at least as of mid-July.

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Old
07-13-2012, 09:37 AM
  #967
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
Been out of country for 3 weeks. Upon return I see not a lot has changed. I do not fault Howson for holding out to get reasonable compensation for Nash. I do fault him for doing his usual, half complete off season. The failure to get rid of Mason, totally, completely and unequivocally, is inexplicable. The failure to think to the future when looking at forwards is again very Howsonesque. Once more, another "Incomplete", at least as of mid-July.
Its pretty obvious that the catalyst for the retool, or whatever you want to call it, has been the Nash trade. Methot for Foligno was a smart move, but its not nearly enough to address our woeful top six situation.

Really, the last chance for a "Mason off the roster" domino to fall would be through Nash trade at this point and thats only a chance when you explore the likelihood that a goaltender could be in the return package.

I will agree that its been a very "Howson-esque" offseason.... Half fix some problems and hope for the best with the rest.


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Old
07-13-2012, 09:47 AM
  #968
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I do not fault Howson for holding out to get reasonable compensation for Nash.
No one does. However Howson really isn't asking for reasonable compensation. He has said as much. Repeatedly.

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:35 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
One thing worth thinking about, for those of you who think Nash may be disgruntled if he has to return to the club:

Maybe this is already a scenario that both parties have let play out? Maybe this is why Nasher hasn't expanded his list; he has to go to one of these teams to be willing to leave here? Maybe Scott Howson knows that if he doesn't get every ounce of what he's asking for, he'll still have an excellent player coming to camp ready to compete with the team?

Just some food for thought
IMO, this is not far from the truth of the matter. If Nash wanted out so badly that he will be a cancer in the locker room, then I would expect him to expand his list of teams he's willing to move to.

Of course, we're all guessing more than deducting these conclusions. Only the players involved really know whats going down.

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:39 AM
  #970
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No one does. However Howson really isn't asking for reasonable compensation. He has said as much. Repeatedly.
And he has that right, who in their right mind would willingly want to get rid of your best player. This was Nash's idea. I'm sure he knows that it will be hard to get equal return, however if someone wants to overpay, we will accomadate. Game of chicken, Howson is banking that nash expands list, or overpayment occurs. Could it get ugly, maybe. But at this point its not.

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Old
07-13-2012, 10:40 AM
  #971
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IMO, this is not far from the truth of the matter. If Nash wanted out so badly that he will be a cancer in the locker room, then I would expect him to expand his list of teams he's willing to move to.

Of course, we're all guessing more than deducting these conclusions. Only the players involved really know whats going down.
Can we stop with the "list" nonsense? It doesn't effect Howson's ability to negotiate with other teams (as witnessed by the fact Howson had talks with teams like Ottawa and Carolina in the first place) and under the CBA even a team on the list requires Howson to go back to Nash for final approval. This isn't a modified NMC where the list is a built in function, so the list is pretty much irrelevant. If Howson wants to trade Nash, he finds a destination, makes a deal and then goes to Nash. If Nash doesn't approve, Howson immediately leaks Nash's rejection to the press to pressure Nash to expand his list. This hasn't happened. So, the lack of a deal has nothing to do with the list.

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07-13-2012, 10:50 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Can we stop with the "list" nonsense? It doesn't effect Howson's ability to negotiate with other teams (as witnessed by the fact Howson had talks with teams like Ottawa and Carolina in the first place) and under the CBA even a team on the list requires Howson to go back to Nash for final approval. This isn't a modified NMC where the list is a built in function, so the list is pretty much irrelevant. If Howson wants to trade Nash, he finds a destination, makes a deal and then goes to Nash. If Nash doesn't approve, Howson immediately leaks Nash's rejection to the press to pressure Nash to expand his list. This hasn't happened. So, the lack of a deal has nothing to do with the list.
I was under the impression that Ottawa was hot in heavy for Nash, but Nash wouldnt consider Ottawa. Thought I read of Ottawa's gm making this known in the paper. I know that Carolina wouldnt give up Skinner, which is similiar to San jose not giving up Coture. The list is there, but I agree with you that howson should, and most likely is fielding all offers. It will be easy to make Nash look bad to the fans if it comes to that. Nash may need to suck it up, and play like determined like he did during the trade deadline, hope for an injury to a contender's player, like the Rangers, or Flyers, if he really wants out, and hope that Gm's see that he is worth the contract he is signed for. There is no doubt that when Rick brings it some nights, he is an elite player. But his consistency is lacking, for being the man.

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07-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #973
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I was under the impression that Ottawa was hot in heavy for Nash, but Nash wouldnt consider Ottawa. Thought I read of Ottawa's gm making this known in the paper. I know that Carolina wouldnt give up Skinner, which is similiar to San jose not giving up Coture. The list is there, but I agree with you that howson should, and most likely is fielding all offers. It will be easy to make Nash look bad to the fans if it comes to that. Nash may need to suck it up, and play like determined like he did during the trade deadline, hope for an injury to a contender's player, like the Rangers, or Flyers, if he really wants out, and hope that Gm's see that he is worth the contract he is signed for. There is no doubt that when Rick brings it some nights, he is an elite player. But his consistency is lacking, for being the man.
If Nash is the horribly inconsistent bum some would have us believe, perhaps it is time to accept some trade for him and move on. After all, he is a declining asset with an increasing real cost in terms of salary. You think we're going to get better assets to do a rebuild as you propose by holding onto him for another year or two? Or will we get less at a later date, postponing the timeframe for this team to get competitive?

This deal needs to be done, now, for all parties, not just Nash.

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07-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #974
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
If Nash is the horribly inconsistent bum some would have us believe, perhaps it is time to accept some trade for him and move on. After all, he is a declining asset with an increasing real cost in terms of salary. You think we're going to get better assets to do a rebuild as you propose by holding onto him for another year or two? Or will we get less at a later date, postponing the timeframe for this team to get competitive?

This deal needs to be done, now, for all parties, not just Nash.
Question for you.

Without a doubt, Columbus was burned by the league's anti-evading stance that existed until mid-July of 2009. So were several other teams, who re-signed their own players to contracts at massive cap hits because of the threat/fear of unknown punishment for cap evasion.

If a new CBA adjusts the way that a player's cap hit is calculated, and it serves to completely shift the market to put Nash in company with many others rather than being in this rare air, wouldn't it make more sense to wait? If teams are concerned about disproportionate production relative to cap hit, a simple re-write of the formula could dramatically impact his value without anything else changing.

This (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=17) is what I brought up in a CBA-related thread. Something like this isn't outside the realm of possibility. I also didn't bother calculating for everyone, but the examples used demonstrate how much the cap scale could change with a changing of the wording.

To add other contracts in:
Suter and Parise - $7,538,462 to $10.333 mil
Lecavalier - $7,727,273 to $10 mil
Ovechkin - $9,538,462 to $10 mil
Chara - $6,916,667 to $7,833,333


Last edited by Mayor Bee: 07-13-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old
07-13-2012, 12:08 PM
  #975
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Can we stop with the "list" nonsense? It doesn't effect Howson's ability to negotiate with other teams (as witnessed by the fact Howson had talks with teams like Ottawa and Carolina in the first place) and under the CBA even a team on the list requires Howson to go back to Nash for final approval. This isn't a modified NMC where the list is a built in function, so the list is pretty much irrelevant. If Howson wants to trade Nash, he finds a destination, makes a deal and then goes to Nash. If Nash doesn't approve, Howson immediately leaks Nash's rejection to the press to pressure Nash to expand his list. This hasn't happened. So, the lack of a deal has nothing to do with the list.
Who's to say that a team hasn't come along and offered Scott Howson a deal he's approved, only to have Nash tell him he doesn't want to play there?

The list is absolutely relevant. If the six teams on the list know they don't have any competition beyond the other five teams, why come out with an offer that goes above and beyond any of them? What if a team like the Islanders came along and offered us the farm for Rick just to play him alongside John Tavares? Does "the list" not matter then?

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