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Free Agent Sit and Think Things Through Thoroughly (Matt Carle signed with Tampa Bay)

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07-04-2012, 09:37 PM
  #701
SeanCWombBroom
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Trust in Homer.

Here is a Matt Carle story:

I brought two really great friends of mine to a Flyers game to try to get them interested in the sport. They were interested in following the Flyers (they're originally from California where there is marginal interest in hockey) since moving here. The Flyers are losing in the third. We have seats right behind Bryz (second level). Matt Carle has the puck behind Bryz and passes it right to an opposing player in front of the net, who immediately dunks it. Worst turnover of the season, bar none.

........ they decided they do not like hockey (that game was incredibly frustrating to watch), or the Flyers, and asked if Matt Carle was a regular player on the team.

I'm not trying to prove a point with this post. It is just one of a few Matt Carle stories.

The guy was big into charity and that's a huge loss to the community.


Last edited by SeanCWombBroom: 07-04-2012 at 09:46 PM.
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Old
07-04-2012, 09:37 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
“@BroadStBull: Agreed. RT @cpimpact: @BroadStBull So, Schenn and Gervais in; JVR, Jagr and Carle out. *Not good so far.”

“@sbaickerCSN: So far this offseason, the Flyers have gotten smaller on offense, weaker on defense and brought back Michael Leighton to backup in net...”

With the cap space there is no way Paul doesn't make a significan signing/trade but as of right now when summed up like that it looks pretty bad.
People beat Holmgren to death over stupid contracts, then beat him to death over NOT giving the stupid contracts.... and we wonder why some guys (like Suter) don't want to be part of this market.

I, for one, think Paul's inaction so far sets us up better in the long haul even if it hurts us for one season.

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07-04-2012, 09:38 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think most reasonable people understand that it leaves a hole, but at the end of the day, the contract that Matt got simply wouldn't have been good cap management for a cap team like the Flyers. I'd rather have a tougher time in 2012-2013 than carry that cap hit for the next 6 years. That's all it comes down to.
This x100

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07-04-2012, 09:38 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think most reasonable people understand that it leaves a hole, but at the end of the day, the contract that Matt got simply wouldn't have been good cap management for a cap team like the Flyers. I'd rather have a tougher time in 2012-2013 than carry that cap hit for the next 6 years. That's all it comes down to.
I can definitely agree with that. But still hoping that gap is filled somehow.

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07-04-2012, 09:40 PM
  #705
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Matt carle is trash! Good riddance!!

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07-04-2012, 09:40 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Flyers let a Top 50 defenseman walk away, so be careful what you wish for. Easily matchable for Holmgren.
Apparently the Flyers didn't want to give this Top 50 defenseman a Top 20 cap hit.

Fan fact: Matt Carle has a bigger cap hit than Keith Yandle, who signed his contract one year ago coming off an All Star season.

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07-04-2012, 09:41 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I, for one, think Paul's inaction so far sets us up better in the long haul even if it hurts us for one season.
I think most Flyers fans, including myself, agree.

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Old
07-04-2012, 09:41 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
People beat Holmgren to death over stupid contracts, then beat him to death over NOT giving the stupid contracts.... and we wonder why some guys (like Suter) don't want to be part of this market.

I, for one, think Paul's inaction so far sets us up better in the long haul even if it hurts us for one season.
That's because this wasn't a stupid contract. It was actually fair value. Carle is worlds better than Wideman but doesn't make much more.


Assuming other moves are not made (there likely will, but I'm only worrying about what's on our roster), let's not forget Timonen is only getting older, will wear down faster, and now has to eat even more minutes sans two 25-minute defensemen. Oh, and his contract is up too next summer.

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07-04-2012, 09:41 PM
  #709
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This was a good one to walk away from. I've always stood up for Carle, but you have to draw the line at some point. This also gives us flexibility to make moves later.

And speaking of flexibility, we finally have some cap room with much more relief in the near future (Timonen), and yet I'm seeing posters who previously chastised Holmgren for "cap mismanagement" now questioning his decision to let Carle walk. The hypocrisy of certain people on this board just cracks me up sometimes

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07-04-2012, 09:42 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
That's because this wasn't a stupid contract. It was actually fair value. Carle is worlds better than Wideman but doesn't make much more.
Its a very stupid contract on the flyers side of things. It works out good for Tampa but the flyers don't need Carle for 6 years at 5.5

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07-04-2012, 09:43 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by dagame7474 View Post
Matt carle is trash! Good riddance!!
Coming from the guy who apparently has a Zherdev jersey

All jokes aside, he's not worth the contract he got as some Gms are willing to overpay to fill the void in their lineups, but i never thought he's as bad as some people around here made him out to be.

Maybe Holmgren knows something we dont about Pronger making progress *wishfull thinking*

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07-04-2012, 09:47 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Its a very stupid contract on the flyers side of things. It works out good for Tampa but the flyers don't need Carle for 6 years at 5.5
Flyers don't have a legit, proven (and the Flyers like proven guys, so let's keep Gus out of this) puck-mover signed more than two years down the road. Timonen's contract is done, then Meszaros. Even if we keep Timonen, he's no more than 2 years. Gotta start somewhere, and it's no use pencilling in players from other teams. That didn't work when everyone did it with Suter.

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07-04-2012, 09:50 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by qwertysac View Post
Coming from the guy who apparently has a Zherdev jersey

All jokes aside, he's not worth the contract he got as some Gms are willing to overpay to fill the void in their lineups, but i never thought he's as bad as some people around here made him out to be.

Maybe Holmgren knows something we dont about Pronger making progress *wishfull thinking*
There is a part of me that also wonders if Prongs might be making more headway [no pun intended] than they are letting on ? It would certainly be a BIG plus to maybe get him back sometime this season, although even if well, he is getting along in age and layoffs like that surely are harder to come back 100% from.Whatever happens i wish him the best.

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07-04-2012, 09:52 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
People beat Holmgren to death over stupid contracts, then beat him to death over NOT giving the stupid contracts.... and we wonder why some guys (like Suter) don't want to be part of this market.

I, for one, think Paul's inaction so far sets us up better in the long haul even if it hurts us for one season.
yep. If you are a patient guy, then all is well. But homer is damned if you do damned if you don't.

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07-04-2012, 09:53 PM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Flyers let a Top 50 defenseman walk away, so be careful what you wish for. Easily matchable for Holmgren.
It was easily matchable in that Homer had the money and a pen with the ink in it to sign that terrible contract. Doesn't make it the right decision.

But yes, we are in need of a puck mover right now. Phoenix?

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07-04-2012, 09:53 PM
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
You guys better hope Schenn figures out that 'first pass out of the zone' problem that got him benched in Toronto.

Flyers let a Top 50 defenseman walk away, so be careful what you wish for. Easily matchable for Holmgren.
Okay, I'll bite.

Karlsson, Byfuglien, Campbell, Chara, Pietrangelo, Weber, Edler, Boyle, Streit, Suter, Phaneuf, Bieksa, Yandle, Timonen, Letang, Keith, JJ, Burns, Hamhuis, Kronwall, Doughty, Subban, Seabrook, Enstrom, Karlsson, McDonagh, Ehrhoff, Kaberle, Bouwmeester, Tyutin, EJ, Girardi, Goligoski, Bogosian, Giordano, Myers, Coburn, Hamonic, Seidenberg, Pitkanen, Alzner, Gleason, Phillips, Pronger, Green, Staal, and Markov. I'd definitely take those guys over Carle, and there are plenty of others that could definitely be argued, like Brad Stuart, Shattenkirk, OEL, Kulikov, Gardiner, Visnovsky, Wisniewski, etc.

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07-04-2012, 09:54 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
There is a part of me that also wonders if Prongs might be making more headway [no pun intended] than they are letting on ? It would certainly be a BIG plus to maybe get him back sometime this season, although even if well, he is getting along in age and layoffs like that surely are harder to come back 100% from.Whatever happens i wish him the best.
Man, that would be amazing. But I think it is wishful thinking.

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07-04-2012, 09:55 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
That's because this wasn't a stupid contract. It was actually fair value. Carle is worlds better than Wideman but doesn't make much more.


Assuming other moves are not made (there likely will, but I'm only worrying about what's on our roster), let's not forget Timonen is only getting older, will wear down faster, and now has to eat even more minutes sans two 25-minute defensemen. Oh, and his contract is up too next summer.
You don't establish contract value by taking an abysmal contract and comparing a player to the one who got it.

We need a puck-mover - everyone agrees. That doesn't mean Matt Carle should have gotten a blank check.

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07-04-2012, 09:58 PM
  #719
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Glad Homer let Carle walk, he is a turnover machine, and pretty soft, good first pass out of the zone (the biggest thing this team will miss) this does leave a hole in the D which says to me Homer has something brewing, I believe there will be a couple trades in the next coming weeks, no way Homer stands pat with what he has now

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07-04-2012, 10:01 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
You don't establish contract value by taking an abysmal contract and comparing a player to the one who got it.

We need a puck-mover - everyone agrees. That doesn't mean Matt Carle should have gotten a blank check.
he wasn't getting a blank check

http://www.capgeek.com/leaders.php?t...ion=D&limit=50

You can have everyone in the Top 20 on this list. From 20-50, how many would you take over Carle? And that's not to say that I think you're out to lunch of if you give me names, or a few, there's always a debate, but just to ask.

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07-04-2012, 10:02 PM
  #721
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This offseason, Matt Carle got "fair market value". The cap went up by more than everyone expected, so everyone had more money to play with. The cap won't go up this much again for some time. Matt Carle's deal will look worse next season, then the year after that as more players enter the system and there are fewer available dollars with which to sign them.

That doesn't even take into consideration an ounce of Cap rollback through the CBA negotiations.

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07-04-2012, 10:02 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by RespectTheMajor View Post
Glad Homer let Carle walk, he is a turnover machine, and pretty soft, good first pass out of the zone (the biggest thing this team will miss) this does leave a hole in the D which says to me Homer has something brewing, I believe there will be a couple trades in the next coming weeks, no way Homer stands pat with what he has now
What's crazy though is, is that Yandle has way more turn overs than Carle...

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07-04-2012, 10:04 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Flyers don't have a legit, proven (and the Flyers like proven guys, so let's keep Gus out of this) puck-mover signed more than two years down the road. Timonen's contract is done, then Meszaros. Even if we keep Timonen, he's no more than 2 years. Gotta start somewhere, and it's no use pencilling in players from other teams. That didn't work when everyone did it with Suter.
Understand. But look at his numbers. A puck moving defenseman who can't shoot or powerplay a PP at 5.5 for 6 years? I'm glad homer passed on that. Mez capable of being that player but like you said there isn't any reliability. People sleep on Coburn. Who is our best all around defenseman with Kimmo getting old and Pronger injured. Coburn just isn't as polished in the offensive zone. That is where his game needs work.

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07-04-2012, 10:05 PM
  #724
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Okay, I'll bite.

Karlsson, Byfuglien, Campbell, Chara, Pietrangelo, Weber, Edler, Boyle, Streit, Suter, Phaneuf, Bieksa, Yandle, Timonen, Letang, Keith, JJ, Burns, Hamhuis, Kronwall, Doughty, Subban, Seabrook, Enstrom, Karlsson, McDonagh, Ehrhoff, Kaberle, Bouwmeester, Tyutin, EJ, Girardi, Goligoski, Bogosian, Giordano, Myers, Coburn, Hamonic, Seidenberg, Pitkanen, Alzner, Gleason, Phillips, Pronger, Green, Staal, and Markov. I'd definitely take those guys over Carle, and there are plenty of others that could definitely be argued, like Brad Stuart, Shattenkirk, OEL, Kulikov, Gardiner, Visnovsky, Wisniewski, etc.
I'm not going to examine every name (I'll leave that to those who write the pieces and analyze, but just looking at it, there isn't a chance in hell I'd take Jack Johnson and Tomas Kaberle over Carle.

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07-04-2012, 10:07 PM
  #725
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So really, the most important development tonight is that my username is officially useless. Almost as useless as Matt Carle in the defensive zone. Or Matt Carle with a cap hit suitable for a top 20 defenseman.

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