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Free Agent Sit and Think Things Through Thoroughly (Matt Carle signed with Tampa Bay)

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Old
07-05-2012, 01:56 AM
  #776
G Money
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Originally Posted by wahoowa View Post
Serious question: who's going to run the PP if/when Kimmo gets hurt? Mez? I like the idea of stocking up on defensive-minded dmen, but we're a bit thin at the puck-mover spot now...
Claude runs our PP so dont worry about that

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07-05-2012, 02:44 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by phillyflyerfan1992 View Post
Daniel Winnik (solid grinder, might want too much $$$)
Peter Mueller (top-9 forward, low-risk on a 1 year deal)
Kyle Wellwood (utility top-9 fwd)
Jason Arnott (4th line C)
Dominic Moore (4th line/PK C)
Gilbert Brule (low risk on 1 year)
Mike Knuble (lol)
Ruslan Fedotenko (lol?)
Daymond Langkow (lol?)
Looks like Homer is going Dumpster Diving again!

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07-05-2012, 04:39 AM
  #778
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Thinking about it, I honestly think our defense will be solid moving forward. Coburn-Grossmann-Meszaros can hold it down for a little while but we actually have a couple of 22 year old kids who will hopefully make an impact in the NHL in the near future. Luke Schenn has the potential to be a very good top-4 shutdown/physical force and has already been leading the NHL in hits among defensemen. Acquiring him improves and solidifies the future of our defense pretty nicely. Anyone who doesn't like Luke Schenn likely feels that why 'cause he was on the Leafs and to be blunt - the Leafs SUCK. Ron Wilson is easily my least favourite coach of all time and I think he really sucks the confidence out of players over a full season. Hopefully a fresh start with his brother helps him take the next step in his development.

I think Marc-Andre Bourdon is going to be an NHL regular very soon. He's shown flashes of soid play and he was unreal in Junior, winning the top QMJHL Top Defenseman in '08. I still have high hopes that he's be a solid two-way top-6 defender or even a top-4 guy (reminds me of a 6'0" Meszaros). I think if he doesn't outright make the team as the #6 he should be in the AHL full-time and he should be developed for a year under Terry Murray (along with Gustafsson).

Gustafsson doesn't have many comparables in the past, but I truly think he can be a top-4 puck mover/TWD in the NHL. He's also shown flashes of solid play and he has a 0.75 PPG in the AHL and is only a -8 on several TERRIBLE Phantoms teams. Either let him make the NHL right out of training camp or develop him under Terry Murray for the season.

---

If we leave the defense as is with all our options in the #6 spot (unless we upgrade Meszaros for a #1) I think something has to give involving our forwards. We only have 8 under contract that I would be comfortable starting in October and an RFA who will likely be asking for a nice amount of money.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek (RFA)
Schenn - Briere - Simmonds
xxx - Couturier - Read
Wellwood - Talbot? - xxx
Rinaldo
Shelley

Either we need to make a trade or sign some plan B's while we wait on Shane Doan. Otherwise we'll be struggling. Of the remaining guys I'd take a look at:

Shane Doan (duh)
Alex Semin (only if cheap and @ low term )
Daniel Winnik (solid grinder, might want too much $$$)
Peter Mueller (top-9 forward, low-risk on a 1 year deal)
Kyle Wellwood (utility top-9 fwd)
Jason Arnott (4th line C)
Dominic Moore (4th line/PK C)
Gilbert Brule (low risk on 1 year)
Mike Knuble (lol)
Ruslan Fedotenko (lol?)
Daymond Langkow (lol?)
I'd be happy with one of Doan/Semin and Dominic Moore, although I'd still like to see another top-4 defenseman (somehow) more than anything.

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07-05-2012, 06:23 AM
  #779
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Maybe the Flyers sign Kyle Wellwood so we can have a family affair on the ice!

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07-05-2012, 06:26 AM
  #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Money View Post
Claude runs our PP so dont worry about that
Give Gus a shot at it.

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07-05-2012, 06:43 AM
  #781
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Holy epic contract to Carle. Thats hideous.

Can't wait for him to stink up the place like Leino did at buffalo this year.

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07-05-2012, 06:43 AM
  #782
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I wonder what the Flyers' top offer was to Carle and if it came down to money or term. The 5.5m was at the high end of what some people on this board were willing to accept. Maybe it was the 6 years at that price that the Flyers wouldn't come close to.

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07-05-2012, 06:43 AM
  #783
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I'm really surprised that Holmgren didn't offer something similar/match Carle's contract. That seems like fair value. I have to believe that there's something else coming.

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07-05-2012, 06:46 AM
  #784
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In what world is that fair value?

Good job Homer for not signing this guy.

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07-05-2012, 06:51 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Give Gus a shot at it.
I'm all for that, but the Flyers seem to hate giving young defenseman a shot

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07-05-2012, 06:58 AM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
In what world is that fair value?

Good job Homer for not signing this guy.
$5.5 for six years isn't too bad for Carle. He was making like $3.25 before, he played well enough to get a raise, and the cap went up. Is he worth every penny? Probably not. But this isn't some outrageous overpayment. What would have been fair market value for Carle in your opinion?

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07-05-2012, 07:04 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
In what world is that fair value?

Good job Homer for not signing this guy.
In a world where Dennis Wideman gets $5.25 million/yr and Carle is the best dman left on the market that really just opened thanks to Suter's waiting. I didn't think the Flyers should offer Carle anything over 5-5.25 if they really wanted to keep him, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see him get 6/yr as a UFA.

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07-05-2012, 07:08 AM
  #788
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When healthy and with powerplay time Mez is a 35-40 point a year D man.

Coburn showed early in his career when he got PP time, he put up 36 points the year he played on the PP full-ish time.

Timonen is a 40 point a year guy.

Schenn put up 22 points a year twice on Toronto, here I expect he gets 30.

Grossmann obviously does not put up points... well maybe 10.

Gus showed that he can play ~18 mins in the NHL and looked good, he can arguably get 20 points on the third D pair, getting a bit of PP time.

Gervais, as a no.6, gets about 15-20 points a year, Bourdon can get ~15 as well.

Lilja... meh.

That equals about 160-180 points by the D, if looking at min and max players may get, last year we had 168 points from the D... the point production will not change much as others are given bigger roles.

I think that while Carle was a good puck mover, we do not actually lose much on D by moving him, and the extra cap space is far more valuable to the team than him.

Even if we stay put:

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Mez-Gustafsson

with Gervais, Lilja and Bourdon in reserve, that is a pretty decent defence.

PP:

Timonen-Mez

Coburn-Gus

They are not too bad IMO, maybe switch Mez and Coburn, or Mez and Gus.

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07-05-2012, 07:11 AM
  #789
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So was the Gervais possibly signing a hoax?

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07-05-2012, 07:15 AM
  #790
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My ideal, semi-realistic finish to the offseason:

Sign Doan and either Mueller or Winnik...

Hartnell-Giroux-Doan
Voracek-Schenn-Briere
Simmonds-Couturier-Read
Wellwood-Winnik/Mueller-Talbot

Rinaldo/Harry Z/Sestito

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Mez-Gus

Bourdon/Gervias/Lilja

That team is IMO just as good as last years, if not better.

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07-05-2012, 07:16 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
When healthy and with powerplay time Mez is a 35-40 point a year D man.

Coburn showed early in his career when he got PP time, he put up 36 points the year he played on the PP full-ish time.

Timonen is a 40 point a year guy.

Schenn put up 22 points a year twice on Toronto, here I expect he gets 30.

Grossmann obviously does not put up points... well maybe 10.

Gus showed that he can play ~18 mins in the NHL and looked good, he can arguably get 20 points on the third D pair, getting a bit of PP time.

Gervais, as a no.6, gets about 15-20 points a year, Bourdon can get ~15 as well.

Lilja... meh.

That equals about 160-180 points by the D, if looking at min and max players may get, last year we had 168 points from the D... the point production will not change much as others are given bigger roles.

I think that while Carle was a good puck mover, we do not actually lose much on D by moving him, and the extra cap space is far more valuable to the team than him.

Even if we stay put:

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Mez-Gustafsson

with Gervais, Lilja and Bourdon in reserve, that is a pretty decent defence.

PP:

Timonen-Mez

Coburn-Gus

They are not too bad IMO, maybe switch Mez and Coburn, or Mez and Gus.
I would have preferred Mezsaros on the 2nd PP over Carle last year. There is a difference between Dman that create PP opportunities and good puck movers that can get the puck to the offensive catalysts. Timonen is good at getting the puck back to G, that is where his value is at this point in his career. Mezsaros actually has a decent shot. Carle did not.

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Old
07-05-2012, 07:23 AM
  #792
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
So was the Gervais possibly signing a hoax?
Hasn't been announce yet. I wonder if this means Bourbon is on his way out or if they are worried about the concussions?

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07-05-2012, 08:02 AM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
My ideal, semi-realistic finish to the offseason:

Sign Doan and either Mueller or Winnik...

Hartnell-Giroux-Doan
Voracek-Schenn-Briere
Simmonds-Couturier-Read
Wellwood-Winnik/Mueller-Talbot

Rinaldo/Harry Z/Sestito

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Mez-Gus

Bourdon/Gervias/Lilja

That team is IMO just as good as last years, if not better.
as long as our sophmores don't hit a wall, I agree

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07-05-2012, 08:02 AM
  #794
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
So was the Gervais possibly signing a hoax?
No I don't think hoax would be the word to describe as much as just not official. Timmy P said last night on twitter the Flyers would have liked to get the signing done last night but if not would announce it sometime Thursday (today).

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07-05-2012, 08:21 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Hasn't been announce yet. I wonder if this means Bourbon is on his way out or if they are worried about the concussions?
Or they feel like a full season under Terry Murray would help him a lot.

It's pretty difficult to read the tea leaves on what will happen this offseason.

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07-05-2012, 08:27 AM
  #796
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
In a world where Dennis Wideman gets $5.25 million/yr and Carle is the best dman left on the market that really just opened thanks to Suter's waiting. I didn't think the Flyers should offer Carle anything over 5-5.25 if they really wanted to keep him, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see him get 6/yr as a UFA.
You are correct. In an offseason of some bloated contracts and few defensive options, Carle's contract looks fine. However, even if only half of the top 10 defenseman currently slated to be UFAs next season make it to free agency, the quality of the available defensemen makes next season a much better year to spend. You'll get a better player (Vlasic, Enstrom, etc) for the money, in my opinion.

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07-05-2012, 08:45 AM
  #797
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I'd go for a bottom 3 F right now - I plugged in one of our own who should be playing barring injury - as well as Matt Bradley - but that other W could be positioned with anyone, ex: Tom Kostopoulos... D minded, cheap and energy is the idea.

This is with a Vet D brought in and a MAB insurance - since Gervais still isn't signed....
Also bringing in Low cost/high reward Mueller.

Still have lots of space left this way - so I HOPE Homer does something and goes for Semin/Doan or another TOP D man.... which checking this list doesn't seem possible....

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.250m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Peter Mueller ($2.000m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Matt Bradley ($0.950m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Scott Hannan ($1.100m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) /

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)

BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,323,929; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $5,581,071

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Old
07-05-2012, 08:56 AM
  #798
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Hasn't been announce yet. I wonder if this means Bourbon is on his way out or if they are worried about the concussions?
Bourbon and Whiskey were sent off last summer....they wouldn't sign up for dry island

But seriously, I think a lot of the emotional/irrational hate is clouding people's judgement of Carle. Again I wasn't his biggest backer either but I still considered him a good D man. His problem was that he was and will continue to be overpaid but he was not exactly not valuable in his role. I will reserve judgement of the loss until I see who Holmgren replaces him with b/c Schenn I'm sorry is not his replacement..he is not established enough and he's a different type of D man. We still need a puck moving d man besides Timonen! That is why we got creamed by the defensive teams..we did not generate enough offense from the D once Pronger went down and then Mesz..and even Mesz is not enough with Timonen.

Obviously, Carle was not anykind of offensive juggernaut from the point but he did transition well and he blocked shots back there on D pretty well. His brainfarts were annoying but it seems we'll be seeing plenty of those from Schenn..so I can't wait for the howls to rain down when he's screening the goalie doing his pelican stance as one Toronto fan described it or making dumb defensive turnovers b/c he is going to try and generate more offense under Lavi even though he's more stay at home like Grossmann. Right now our D is too Hatcher and Rathje like for this league. We need more mobility the way I see it...

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07-05-2012, 08:57 AM
  #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
When healthy and with powerplay time Mez is a 35-40 point a year D man.

Coburn showed early in his career when he got PP time, he put up 36 points the year he played on the PP full-ish time.

Timonen is a 40 point a year guy.

Schenn put up 22 points a year twice on Toronto, here I expect he gets 30.

Grossmann obviously does not put up points... well maybe 10.

Gus showed that he can play ~18 mins in the NHL and looked good, he can arguably get 20 points on the third D pair, getting a bit of PP time.

Gervais, as a no.6, gets about 15-20 points a year, Bourdon can get ~15 as well.

Lilja... meh.

That equals about 160-180 points by the D, if looking at min and max players may get, last year we had 168 points from the D... the point production will not change much as others are given bigger roles.

I think that while Carle was a good puck mover, we do not actually lose much on D by moving him, and the extra cap space is far more valuable to the team than him.

Even if we stay put:

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Mez-Gustafsson

with Gervais, Lilja and Bourdon in reserve, that is a pretty decent defence.

PP:

Timonen-Mez

Coburn-Gus

They are not too bad IMO, maybe switch Mez and Coburn, or Mez and Gus.
Very good analysis. Remember too, that without Carle giving up costly turnovers, we might actually have more of the puck with players like Giroux and Voracek charging up the ice.

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Old
07-05-2012, 09:01 AM
  #800
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Good point about Coburn having to pick up his offensive game which he is capable of doing but worry about having to lean on him too much if Timonen and Mesz have issues. Still want another puck moving D man ....

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