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Offseason Thread Part V: We're Comfortable With Our Defense

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Old
07-03-2012, 09:04 PM
  #251
Lethargic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
You know, I'm curious, I wonder if it's fair to assume that there is already a trade (or a framework of a trade) from us to CBJ for Nash in place and accepted, and they're just waiting for him to sign off on it?

We haven't been on his short list at any point in time, yet we seem to be getting more media play than the teams who actually are. If Howson heard something he liked from one of those teams, the trade would prolly have been done loooong ago at the trade deadline. But here we are today, with the same four teams (SJS, Philly, Detroit and NYR) *STILL* all at a standstill, and we're *STILL* getting the majority of the media attention.
I would believe there is a done deal, just need Nash to ok it.

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07-03-2012, 09:04 PM
  #252
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JR and Kirk want bigger guys. Erik Karlsson was the best offensive defenseman in the league, not the best defensive defenseman in the league.
We didn't draft Murphy to be a big, bruising defenseman. Hell, we didn't even draft him to play defense.

We drafted him to put up points. Lots and lots of points. To bring nothing else to this team but pure offense. Because with his skating, vision, passing ability and hockey sense, that is something he will be very, very good at in the NHL.

So I'm sorry if you are expecting physical (or even adequate) defense from Ryan Murphy. That's just not his skillset. It's not who he projects to be. But he projects to be something that is far rarer in the NHL than a big defenseman- an offensive gamechanger from the backend. That's why I'm reluctant in giving him up.

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07-03-2012, 09:05 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Your original response was to someone saying "he could be the best offensive defenseman in the league."
I'm half asleep. I missed the offensive part.

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07-03-2012, 09:13 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by MadMardigan View Post
JR and Kirk want bigger guys. Erik Karlsson was the best offensive defenseman in the league, not the best defensive defenseman in the league.
Yes, but clearly elite talent trumps size, or else they wouldn't have gone after Parise.

They also signed Joe Corvo, who might as well be 3'4".

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07-03-2012, 09:16 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
You know, I'm curious, I wonder if it's fair to assume that there is already a trade (or a framework of a trade) from us to CBJ for Nash in place and accepted, and they're just waiting for him to sign off on it?

We haven't been on his short list at any point in time, yet we seem to be getting more media play than the teams who actually are. If Howson heard something he liked from one of those teams, the trade would prolly have been done loooong ago at the trade deadline. But here we are today, with the same four teams (SJS, Philly, Detroit and NYR) *STILL* all at a standstill, and we're *STILL* getting the majority of the media attention.
I tossed this theory out there yesterday, I believe. It's the only reason I can see us still getting mentioned. However, you'd think that maybe the CBJ, would let the Canes talk to Nash, which hasn't happened apparently.

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07-03-2012, 09:17 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by We Like Our Group View Post
Yes, but clearly elite talent trumps size, or else they wouldn't have gone after Parise.

They also signed Joe Corvo, who might as well be 3'4".
You know Char LaRose got Corvo back on the team.

They are wanting to pick on Jordan together.

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07-03-2012, 09:18 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by MadMardigan View Post
I would believe there is a done deal, just need Nash to ok it.
Maybe I missed something, but I'm not quite sure where this is coming from. I highly doubt there is an accepted offer at this point, the only thing I can remember seeing is Chip confirming that an offer had been made and JR would step up his pursuit after missing out on Parise. If an offer was accepted, JR would be seeking permission to talk to Nash, and we haven't heard anything about that yet. With all the attention Nash has gotten over the past few months, you'd think Portzline/Dreger/Chip would report something if a potential deal progressed to that point.

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07-03-2012, 09:24 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Trollomo Ruutu View Post
Maybe I missed something, but I'm not quite sure where this is coming from. I highly doubt there is an accepted offer at this point, the only thing I can remember seeing is Chip confirming that an offer had been made and JR would step up his pursuit after missing out on Parise. If an offer was accepted, JR would be seeking permission to talk to Nash, and we haven't heard anything about that yet. With all the attention Nash has gotten over the past few months, you'd think Portzline/Dreger/Chip would report something if a potential deal progressed to that point.
I agree, if we had a deal in place, then we would be allowed to talk to Nash and try to get him to come here.

But at the same time, there is a reason beyond simple persistence that we are still in it. We've been in it for months. Buffalo and Ottawa both dropped out quickly after being informed that they were not on the list.

So what gives?

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07-03-2012, 09:29 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
I agree, if we had a deal in place, then we would be allowed to talk to Nash and try to get him to come here.

But at the same time, there is a reason beyond simple persistence that we are still in it. We've been in it for months. Buffalo and Ottawa both dropped out quickly after being informed that they were not on the list.

So what gives?
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. We're not on his list, but we're around. We're around for a reason.

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07-03-2012, 09:29 PM
  #260
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Howson has said repeatedly that the offers aren't good enough. Maybe he's saying that the offers from the teams on Nash's list aren't good enough, but I don't think so. I think the odds that there are *any* offers on the table from *any* team that have been deemed good enough by Howson are remote.

Buffalo and Ottawa dropped out because they're Buffalo and Ottawa. If they're not on the list, they're not getting on the list. We could potentially be added to the list, mostly because we're not Buffalo or Ottawa.

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07-03-2012, 09:31 PM
  #261
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JR tampering again haha speaking to nash directly

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07-03-2012, 09:36 PM
  #262
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I tweeted Portzline and Chip two days ago asking them my question. No response yet.

There prolly isn't an accepted trade in place, but I'd bet that Howson is buying at least some of what JR is selling for us to still be mentioned by big names several times a day.

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07-03-2012, 09:36 PM
  #263
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Does Nash share an agent with any of our guys?

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07-03-2012, 09:40 PM
  #264
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We want Nash. But what if we have something that Howson covets? Someone that Howson wants, and is willing to deal Nash to get him (among others)?

That would explain both why we have been in talks for so long, and why Buffalo and Ottawa dropped out. We have something that Howson wants, and Buffalo and Ottawa did not have it.

But going along with that assumption, who could it be? If someone looked at the roster/prospect pool of those two teams, we could probably find out.

The name that stands out (and scares me) is Skinner.

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07-03-2012, 09:41 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
You know, I'm curious, I wonder if it's fair to assume that there is already a trade (or a framework of a trade) from us to CBJ for Nash in place and accepted, and they're just waiting for him to sign off on it?

We haven't been on his short list at any point in time, yet we seem to be getting more media play than the teams who actually are. If Howson heard something he liked from one of those teams, the trade would prolly have been done loooong ago at the trade deadline. But here we are today, with the same four teams (SJS, Philly, Detroit and NYR) *STILL* all at a standstill, and we're *STILL* getting the majority of the media attention.
There certainly does seem to be a hell of a lot of smoke, that's for sure.

Whether an offer has been accepted or not, it seems likely that JR had put the most aggressive bid on the table. So there could be a confluence of:

- Aggressive GM who's in buy-now mode
- Ownership willing to give Nash his bloated paycheck
- Team on the rise and in the headlines lately, needing a player like Nash
- A market eerily similar to Columbus

Everything seems to up from an outside perspective.

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07-03-2012, 09:43 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Hurricane Anton View Post
Does Nash share an agent with any of our guys?
Joe Resnick. I don't believe so.

EDIT: And neither does his agency -

Thornton
Nash
Liles
Couture
Gustavsson
Wolski
Emmerton
Mitchell
Henrique

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07-03-2012, 09:48 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
We want Nash. But what if we have something that Howson covets? Someone that Howson wants, and is willing to deal Nash to get him (among others)?

That would explain both why we have been in talks for so long, and why Buffalo and Ottawa dropped out. We have something that Howson wants, and Buffalo and Ottawa did not have it.

But going along with that assumption, who could it be? If someone looked at the roster/prospect pool of those two teams, we could probably find out.

The name that stands out (and scares me) is Skinner.
That would make sense except Howson has gotta realise that'd never happen.

Howson knows he can never have Skinner, For all of JR's talk, it's fairly obvious to everyone that there are four untouchables on this team, the two Staal's, Skinner and Ward. But Howson prolly thinks he has (and he probably does have) an outside shot at Faulk and//or Murphy.

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07-03-2012, 09:50 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
We want Nash. But what if we have something that Howson covets?

That would explain both why we have been in talks for so long, and why Buffalo and Ottawa dropped out. We have something that Howson wants, and Buffalo and Ottawa did not have it.

But going along with that assumption, who could it be? If someone looked at the roster/prospect pool of those two teams, we could probably find out.

The name that stands out (and scares me) is Skinner.
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what makes our pursuit so special, but I agree we've gotta be offering something that sticks out to Howson. I don't think it's Skinner, but I can definitely see JR being more willing to overpay than Sather or Wilson. Maybe we're offering something like the Kessel trade, and Howson wants the future 1st rounders. Tripp sure seems to be alluding to something like that.

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07-03-2012, 09:54 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
That would make sense except Howson has gotta realise that'd never happen.

Howson knows he can never have Skinner, For all of JR's talk, it's fairly obvious to everyone that there are four untouchables on this team, the two Staal's, Skinner and Ward. But Howson prolly thinks he has (and he probably does have) an outside shot at Faulk and//or Murphy.
That's a good point.

If it were Skinner, then JR would have said no, and talks would have ended a long time ago. Plus, Buffalo has a Jeff Skinner-lite of their own (complete with #53) in Tyler Ennis.

But I don't think it's a prospect either. Howson wants someone who is going to step up and contribute, as much to save his own skin as to improve the Jackets. I am really high on Murphy, but he is the Webster definition of boom or bust. Howson isn't going to waste an asset like Nash on a maybe.

So who is a player on our roster with enough trade value that Howson would continue negotiations in order to get? If we rule out Skinner (who I still think may be a name thrown out there, to be honest), then the only other option is Faulk.

That puts JR's comment about Faulk being a "franchise defenseman" in a new light.

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07-03-2012, 09:55 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollomo Ruutu View Post
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what makes our pursuit so special, but I agree we've gotta be offering something that sticks out to Howson. I don't think it's Skinner, but I can definitely see JR being more willing to overpay than Sather or Wilson. Maybe we're offering something like the Kessel trade, and Howson wants the future 1st rounders. Tripp sure seems to be alluding to something like that.
So it's Glen Wesley v. 2.0


Rick Nash


2013 1st
2014 1st
2015 1st
2016 1st

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07-03-2012, 09:55 PM
  #271
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Edit: Nvm

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07-03-2012, 09:59 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
So who is a player on our roster with enough trade value that Howson would continue negotiations in order to get? If we rule out Skinner (who I still think may be a name thrown out there, to be honest), then the only other option is Faulk.

That puts JR's comment about Faulk being a "franchise defenseman" in a new light.
I honestly think we're on the right track here. A deal involving Faulk would have to catch Howson's attention.

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07-03-2012, 09:59 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
That's a good point.

If it were Skinner, then JR would have said no, and talks would have ended a long time ago. Plus, Buffalo has a Jeff Skinner-lite of their own (complete with #53) in Tyler Ennis.

But I don't think it's a prospect either. Howson wants someone who is going to step up and contribute, as much to save his own skin as to improve the Jackets. I am really high on Murphy, but he is the Webster definition of boom or bust. Howson isn't going to waste an asset like Nash on a maybe.

So who is a player on our roster with enough trade value that Howson would continue negotiations in order to get? If we rule out Skinner (who I still think may be a name thrown out there, to be honest), then the only other option is Faulk.

That puts JR's comment about Faulk being a "franchise defenseman" in a new light.
Faulk has already proven, that while he still has some growing to do (physically and mentally), that he's more than capable of logging top 4 minutes right now.

While Murphy, as good as he may become, is still on a CHL team in the middle of nowhere Ontario.

If I had to bet money, I'd say Faulk, and then hypothetically if you added in Murphy+, it's something drool worthy.

Although, at that point CBJ might have to start adding more than just Nash.

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07-03-2012, 10:02 PM
  #274
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Trading Faulk =

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07-03-2012, 10:04 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I honestly think we're on the right track here. A deal involving Faulk would have to catch Howson's attention.
If we are dealing Faulk +

Then who do we get back other then Nash?

Moore, Nikitin, or who?

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