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Nazem Kadri vs. Bobby Ryan and Grabovski

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:46 AM
  #26
Donmega
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Didn't know they where so close, thanks for posting this as it changed my opinion of kadri a bit. I hope they give him a real shot starting next season. I hope Kadri gains some size over the summer like told by the leafs.

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07-03-2012, 06:55 AM
  #27
93KILLER93
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Burke may take a run at acquiring Bobby Ryan.

Top six forward ✓
Size ✓
American ✓

Might even cost them a player like Kadri.

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07-03-2012, 06:57 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorriPage View Post
I'm probably the biggest Nazem Kadri fanboy alive and even I think it's ridiculous to compare Bobby Ryan to Kadri. As was said above, Ryan is a top line player who can get you 30 goals and 65 points every season. And he's still young and only going to get better. Until Kadri plays a full season, or a few full seasons, and we can gauge what kind of production we can annually expect from him, anyone with half a brain takes Bobby Ryan over Nazem Kadri and there shouldn't be a moment's hesitation.
I think the whole point of the thread was to illustrate that it's folly to say Kadri is a bust at this point and his point progression shows a growth similar to that of Bobby Ryan.

Comparing the two player's isn't the best comparison but it shows that sometimes development takes a little longer for a player.

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07-03-2012, 07:03 AM
  #29
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Idiotic Leafs Fans View Post
Not listening. Don't want Kadri to succeed.
Oh ok, fair enough...

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07-03-2012, 08:00 AM
  #30
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Nope! Too late! Strip him down. Sell him for parts!

Just Kidding. Very good comparison, even when you consider how both players developement has been very public.

Question. i didn't get get to see Kadri play in the AHL playoffs. Could someone who saw him give their evaluation?

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07-03-2012, 08:01 AM
  #31
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Alright let's try that again

Ryan
2007-08
AHL - 1.02ppg
NHL - 0.43ppg

Kadri
AHL - 0.83ppg
NHL - 0.33ppg(small sample size)

Still a decent sized difference there. Apologies for sounding condescending I like Kadri a lot, but I think Ryan is at a different level. Hopefully Kadri can reach that level one day.
AHL:

Kadri - 92 games - Points 81 - .88 PPG
Ryan - 70 games - Points 77 - 1.1 PPG

Ryan had 8 AHL games 2006-2207 while still in junior. After junior he had 62 games in the AHL, compared to 92 games for Kadri. Due to birth month it is difficult to compare 100%, but Kadri is holding his own. He isn't a PPG player in the AHL, but he's close.

With the draft cut-off, someone like Schenn and Kadri both 2009 selections are actually a year apart in timetables.

Schenn, 63 NHL games and 20 points. 1st. year out of junior
Kadri, 51 NHL games and 19 points. 2nd. year out of junior

Still like to see a line like this:

Kulemin-Kadri-Frattin

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Old
07-03-2012, 08:11 AM
  #32
416Leafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
I think the whole point of the thread was to illustrate that it's folly to say Kadri is a bust at this point and his point progression shows a growth similar to that of Bobby Ryan.

Comparing the two player's isn't the best comparison but it shows that sometimes development takes a little longer for a player.
It also shows very similar growth to Tlusty's...

Cheery picking examples doesn't mean anything. You need a bigger non-cherry picked sample size, and even then you're only dealing with probabilities, and it's impossible to say for certain.

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Old
07-03-2012, 08:25 AM
  #33
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
It also shows very similar growth to Tlusty's...

Cheery picking examples doesn't mean anything. You need a bigger non-cherry picked sample size, and even then you're only dealing with probabilities, and it's impossible to say for certain.
Tlusty after getting over some injury problems 2010-2011 had a pretty good 2011-2012 season.

Tlusty as a 19 year old had 16 points in 58 NHL games. (Compared to Kadri's 19 points in 51 games to date.)
Then as a 20 year old in the AHL had 66 points in 66 games, before he ran into his issues and Wilson. He had surgery after the 2010-2011 season and played most of the year 2011-2012 healthy.

He looked good in the games I watched this year, reminded me more of the player he was before Wilson showed up. Skating hard and moving well. He is perhaps a support player who'll play better with better linemates.

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07-03-2012, 08:32 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Tlusty after getting over some injury problems 2010-2011 had a pretty good 2011-2012 season.

Tlusty as a 19 year old had 16 points in 58 NHL games. (Compared to Kadri's 19 points in 51 games to date.)
Then as a 20 year old in the AHL had 66 points in 66 games, before he ran into his issues and Wilson. He had surgery after the 2010-2011 season and played most of the year 2011-2012 healthy.

He looked good in the games I watched, reminded me more of the player he was before Wilson showed up.
He's looked ok. But Tlusty's 36 points as a 23 year old are obviously not nearly as impressive as Ryan's 57 points as a 21 year old (in 64 games versus Tlusty's 79 games). Tlusty so far has not proven himself at all at the NHL level in terms of being a top 6 forward, let alone a top line forward.

I'm not saying Kadri is going to be a 3rd liner like Tlusty, I'm just saying that comparing Kadri's stats to Ryan's and saying it means Kadri has a very good chance of being a 1st liner is just as absurd as comparing his stats to Tlusty's and saying he has a very good chance of being a 3rd liner. If Kadri finishes the 2013-2014 season with 36 points, I think it's safe to say quite a number of people will be disappointed.

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07-03-2012, 08:36 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
He's looked ok. But Tlusty's 36 points as a 23 year old are obviously not nearly as impressive as Ryan's 57 points as a 21 year old (in 64 games versus Tlusty's 79 games). Tlusty so far has not proven himself at all at the NHL level in terms of being a top 6 forward, let alone a top line forward.

I'm not saying Kadri is going to be a 3rd liner like Tlusty, I'm just saying that comparing Kadri's stats to Ryan's and saying it means Kadri has a very good chance of being a 1st liner is just as absurd as comparing his stats to Tlusty's and saying he has a very good chance of being a 3rd liner. If Kadri finishes the 2013-2014 season with 36 points, I think it's safe to say quite a number of people will be disappointed.
Definitely, Kadri has to prove himself capable of being a NHL player before we'll know what kind of NHL player he's going to be.

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07-03-2012, 08:39 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Definitely, Kadri has to prove himself capable of being a NHL player before we'll know what kind of NHL player he's going to be.
Exactly. Which is why the Ryan comparison's don't mean much. I guess the thread is trying to point out that it is "possible" that Kadri could become a 1st line player or really solid secondary guy.

Ok, I don't know many people that disagree with that.

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Old
07-03-2012, 08:50 AM
  #37
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Nazem Kadri Stats Side by Side with Grabvoski

Kadri:

Age 19 - 1 GP 0G 0A 0Pts
Age 20 - AHL 44GP 17G 24A 41Pts
NHL 29GP 3G 9A 12Pts
Age 21 - AHL 48GP 18G 22A 40Pts
NHL 21GP 5G 2A 7Pts


Grabvoski:

Age 21 - Not in NHL
Age 22-23 - AHL 66GP 17G 37A 54 Pts
NHL 3GP 0G 0A 0Pts

Age 23-24 AHL 12GP 8G 12A 20Pts
NHL 24GP 3G 6A 9Pts

Age 24-25 NHL 78GP 20G 28A 48Pts

Age 25-26 59GP 10G 25A 35Pts

Age 26-27 81GP 29G 29A 58pts

Age 27-28 74GP 23G 28A 51Pts


A comparison of players and why we should be patient with our prospects. Kadri at this stage was 2 full years ahead of Grabo when he 1st had a taste of the NHL, it took Grabo 2 years of minor league exposure before he scored 3 goals in his 24-25 year old season.

Kadri scored 3 G as a 20 year old, he scored 5 more as a 21 year old. With 2 years of minors under his belt can he score 20 goals this season as a 22 year old, it took Grabo to hit 20 at age 25. Interesting comparison of players and their development. But Kadri from an age standpoint is already destined to do more than Grabo did at age 22.


Last edited by Interactif: 07-03-2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old
07-03-2012, 08:55 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
How do you compare Bobby Ryan and Nazem Kadri with their playing styles? Nevermind the stats, but the way they play.. That's the biggest difference here..
What Kadri may lack in Ryan's physical play/presence he more than makes up for with > hands than BR.

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07-03-2012, 08:58 AM
  #39
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"Destined"?

Why would you chose such a divIne word like that?

With a trade on the horizon for a top 6 forward Kadri will most likely be a Marlie and the first call-up if there's an injury.

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07-03-2012, 09:02 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
"Destined"?

Why would you chose such a divIne word like that?

With a trade on the horizon for a top 6 forward Kadri will most likely be a Marlie and the first call-up if there's an injury.
Highly likely? More likely? Hate putting the pressure on Kadri, since expectations are he has been a flop here by some Leafs fans, but I would say he is destined to score 20 this year, given he has a larger role with Carlyle than he had with his previous coach.

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07-03-2012, 09:09 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Highly likely? More likely? Hate putting the pressure on Kadri, since expectations are he has been a flop here by some Leafs fans, but I would say he is destined to score 20 this year, given he has a larger role with Carlyle than he had with his previous coach.

Damn I really hope so. It'd be nice not to read posts from our fans calling him a bust constantly, but more importantly it'd be a confidence builder for him to start really producing. I believe he has it in him.

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07-03-2012, 09:29 AM
  #42
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On the fence

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Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Damn I really hope so. It'd be nice not to read posts from our fans calling him a bust constantly, but more importantly it'd be a confidence builder for him to start really producing. I believe he has it in him.
If he's not moved in the off season I really hope he comes to training camp and proves everyone wrong. He has to be fired up and take it. It still won't be handed to him.

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07-03-2012, 09:30 AM
  #43
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Damn I really hope so. It'd be nice not to read posts from our fans calling him a bust constantly, but more importantly it'd be a confidence builder for him to start really producing. I believe he has it in him.
I think the biggest problem was the too high expectations from some fans demanding he put into the NHL line up without ever earning it.

Burke was onside with making him earn it, even while some were claiming he was too good for the AHL. He was not even close to being too good for the AHL, and there are better players still in the AHL.

Put in the time and effort and the rewards will be sweeter.

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Old
07-03-2012, 09:51 AM
  #44
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I have no doubt that Kadri could be a 30 goal, 65 point player this year!

Trouble is they may not let him try the top line, and he may not be able to do it as a second line winger...

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07-03-2012, 09:55 AM
  #45
Duke Silver
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Mike Ribeiro is perhaps the best comparison, not only for production but size and playing style as well. They almost identically mirror each other.

Ribeiro:
(Age 19) - NHL: 19GP-1G-1A-2P, AHL: 3P-0A-0G-0P
(Age 20) - NHL: 2GP-0G-0A-0P, AHL: 74GP-26G-40A-66P
(Age 21) - NHL: 43GP-8G-10A-18P, AHL: 23GP-9G-14A-23P
(Age 22) - NHL: 52GP-5G-12A-17P, AHL: 3GP-0G-1A-1P
(Age 23) - NHL: 81GP-20G-45A-65P

Kadri:
(Age 19) - NHL: 1GP-0G-0A-0P
(Age 20) - NHL: 29GP-3G-9A-12P, AHL: 44GP-17G-24A-41P
(Age 21) - NHL: 21GP-5G-2A-7P, AHL: 48GP-18G-22A-40P

Another way to look at this:

NHL points-per-game (Age 19-21):
Ribeiro: 0.313 in 64GP
Kadri: 0.373 in 51GP

AHL points-per-game (Age 19-21):
Ribeiro: 0.890 in 100GP
Kadri: 0.880 in 92GP


Last edited by Duke Silver: 07-03-2012 at 10:02 AM.
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Old
07-03-2012, 10:08 AM
  #46
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It's incredible to me that kadri needs to be a defensive asset when so many other offensive minded and skilled players around the league are just like him but their teams are just happy if they produce. But then this is the leafs and you need to be big, truculent, and great defensively if you want to crack this lineup.

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07-03-2012, 10:15 AM
  #47
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My problem with Kadri is with the top 6 shaping up I don't know where he fits or if he's a good fit? I think we need one more legit elite top 6 forward (barring Kadri developing into an elite player or JVR) since I don't think we get that #1c. I wish the Leafs would just suck it up and try to groome Kadri in the C role.

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07-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #48
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Interesting comparison, but does anyone actually think Kadri doesn't have a chance to be what he was drafted for? The skill has always been there, the production has always been there, unfortunately Ron Wilson just did not like putting him in the lineup.

Kadri will flourish under Carlyle, he's a keeper unless we're getting Luongo back.

Going into the season I would much rather Kadri on the second line with Grabo and JVR over Kulemin or Mac.

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07-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erza Scarlet View Post
My problem with Kadri is with the top 6 shaping up I don't know where he fits or if he's a good fit? I think we need one more legit elite top 6 forward (barring Kadri developing into an elite player or JVR) since I don't think we get that #1c. I wish the Leafs would just suck it up and try to groome Kadri in the C role.
You'd have to think people will be traded. There is just no way they can promise all this playing time to the "Marlies kids" with such a overkill of tweeners.

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #50
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So with these comparisons we have the next Price in net, and the next Bobby Ryan up front.

In all seriousness though Kadri does need more time, the only thing though is our roster is so filled highly paid players with mediocre talent he hasn't been granted the opportunity. With Armstrong gone that opens up one spot, hopefully Burke/Carlyle give him a real chance to stay this year.

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