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Orange County Nights: The Ballad of Grumpy Bobby [All Bobby Ryan discussion | Part V]

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07-03-2012, 05:13 AM
  #1
Vipers31
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Orange County Nights: The Ballad of Grumpy Bobby [All Bobby Ryan discussion | Part V]

Continue here.




Also, one obscure title we hopefully (and most likely) won't get to use: Bobby Short at the Cafe Carlyle (link).

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07-03-2012, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Continue here.




Also, one obscure title we hopefully (and most likely) won't get to use: Bobby Short at the Cafe Carlyle (link).
I have a hunch that the 'ryan express' might be used sooner rather than later!

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07-03-2012, 08:00 AM
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Marty Straka
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The Murray's talk and the sens swoop in with:

Zibanejad
Greening
Wiercioch
1st

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07-03-2012, 08:47 AM
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SpezDispenser
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Quote:
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The Murray's talk and the sens swoop in with:

Zibanejad
Greening
Wiercioch
1st
Why Greening?

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07-03-2012, 08:48 AM
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King William
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Any interest from Ducks nation?

To Toronto:
Bobby Ryan (RW/LW)

To Anaheim:
Nikolai Kulemin (RW/LW)
Tyler Bozak (C)
Stuart Percy (D)
2nd Round Pick (2013)

Anaheim gets...

Kulemin: Top 6 Russian power forward, tremendously reliable defensively and consistent effort.
Bozak: Decent 2nd line centre/great 3rd line centre, good skill set, penalty killer.
Percy: 2011 draft pick (1st round), high IQ, very poised, 2nd pairing upside.
2nd Round Pick (2013): Should be in the 40-50 range, very deep draft.

You can point at Kulemin's lack of offensive production this past season, I've watched him for years and he'll bounce back to a 55+ point forward.


Last edited by King William: 07-03-2012 at 08:54 AM.
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07-03-2012, 08:53 AM
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Marty Straka
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Why Greening?
The Ducks need a big bodied young winger to replace the loss of Ryan.

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07-03-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Any interest from Ducks nation?

To Toronto:
Bobby Ryan (RW/LW)

To Anaheim:
Nikolai Kulemin (RW/LW)
Tyler Bozak (C)
Stuart Percy (D)
2nd Round Pick (2013)

Anaheim gets...

Kulemin: Top 6 Russian power forward, tremendously reliable defensively and consistent effort.
Bozak: Decent 2nd line centre/great 3rd line centre, good skill set, penalty killer.
Percy: 2011 draft pick (1st round), high IQ, very poised, 2nd pairing upside.
2nd Round Pick (2013): Should be in the 40-50 range, very deep draft.

You can point at Kulemin's lack of offensive production this past season, I've watched him for years and he'll bounce back to a 55+ point forward.
Anaheim wouldnt do this. They are looking for something better than Kulemin and Bozak. Good players no doubt but Ryan is a 1st line winger while those 2 will always be 2nd liners at best.

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07-03-2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
The Murray's talk and the sens swoop in with:

Zibanejad
Greening
Wiercioch
1st
This is probably one of the better offers I've seen.

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07-03-2012, 09:11 AM
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King William
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Originally Posted by Reini29 View Post
Anaheim wouldnt do this. They are looking for something better than Kulemin and Bozak. Good players no doubt but Ryan is a 1st line winger while those 2 will always be 2nd liners at best.
I agree about your player assessments but this deal adds significant depth to Anaheim.

I think with the situation there, they're going to make a hockey deal to add quality depth while downgrading at one position.

Their top six consists of...

Ryan Getzlaf
Corey Perry
Teemu Selanne
Bobby Ryan
Saku Koivu
Andrew Cogliano

Their bottom six consists of...

Matt Beleskey
Devante Smith-Pelley
Nick Bonino
Kyle Palmieri
___________?
___________?

They need to add 2 or 3 top 6 forwards if they move Ryan. Koivu and Cogliano are third line forwards at this time. Kulemin replaces Ryan in the top 6 and Bozak pushes Koivu and Cogliano down. You add a very promising defensive prospect (Percy) and a relatively high 2nd round pick in a deep draft.

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07-03-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
The Murray's talk and the sens swoop in with:

Zibanejad
Greening
Wiercioch
1st
Good offer. It hurts because Zibanejad and Greening are going to be excellent, but it's good value for Ryan.

However, I think Bob Murray would want to trade to compete this year; he'd like to take one last kick at the can before Getzlaf and Perry walk for nothing. Greening won't replace Ryan's offense by a long shot, and even if Zibanejad and Wiercioch develop into what the Ducks need them to be in the near future, the immediate future is most likely Murray's biggest concern. For that reason, despite the good value, I don't see this deal happening.


Last edited by mkearney913: 07-03-2012 at 09:20 AM.
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07-03-2012, 09:18 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Any interest from Ducks nation?

To Toronto:
Bobby Ryan (RW/LW)

To Anaheim:
Nikolai Kulemin (RW/LW)
Tyler Bozak (C)
Stuart Percy (D)
2nd Round Pick (2013)

Anaheim gets...

Kulemin: Top 6 Russian power forward, tremendously reliable defensively and consistent effort.
Bozak: Decent 2nd line centre/great 3rd line centre, good skill set, penalty killer.
Percy: 2011 draft pick (1st round), high IQ, very poised, 2nd pairing upside.
2nd Round Pick (2013): Should be in the 40-50 range, very deep draft.

You can point at Kulemin's lack of offensive production this past season, I've watched him for years and he'll bounce back to a 55+ point forward.
Absolutely no...Ottawa offer with Zibanejad and Greening sounds interesting, but maybe we will have something better...

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07-03-2012, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by umwoz View Post
This is probably one of the better offers I've seen.
I'm curious about something.

Back before the draft, when the Ryan stuff first came up, and when B. Schenn was still possibly available, many Ducks fans responded with derision to the inclusion of Matt Read as the second asset--an attitude that seems to continue.

What makes Greening equal or more valuable than Read?

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07-03-2012, 09:22 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
The Murray's talk and the sens swoop in with:

Zibanejad
Greening
Wiercioch
1st
This probably would never happen. What team is willing to throw a top 5 prospect(in the world), a 17 goal scorer, a former second rounder(Wiercioch), and then another first for Ryan? That is asinine. Again people Ryan will not get back more than Richards or Carter, and that deal is considerably more.

This offer is close to what Richards was acquired for. It is not exact but close in value. Top line Centers>top line wingers

Zibanejad
Greening
2nd

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07-03-2012, 09:27 AM
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If the Canucks decide to pursue Weber:

Edler straight across for Ryan.

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07-03-2012, 09:28 AM
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Devils would have interest if Parise leaves.

I might be comfortable with a package like: Josefson, Clarkson, and a pick. Maybe Anaheim throws in a forward prospect or depth forward.

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07-03-2012, 09:30 AM
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King William
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Devils would have interest if Parise leaves.

I might be comfortable with a package like: Josefson, Clarkson, and a pick. Maybe Anaheim throws in a forward prospect or depth forward.
I don't think NJ has the expendable assets.

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07-03-2012, 09:31 AM
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Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
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If the Canucks decide to pursue Weber:

Edler straight across for Ryan.
Unless you're suggesting an offer sheet would work (which I doubt), then doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that Edler would have to go in a package for Weber?

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07-03-2012, 09:37 AM
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To

RW Drew Stafford ($4M)
C/W Luke Adam ($950K ELC)
D Andrej Sekera ($2.75M)
2013 1st RND pick


To

RW Bobby Ryan ($5.1M)
D Toni Lydman ($3M UFA)
2013 3rd RND pick


Dealz?

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07-03-2012, 09:58 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I'm curious about something.

Back before the draft, when the Ryan stuff first came up, and when B. Schenn was still possibly available, many Ducks fans responded with derision to the inclusion of Matt Read as the second asset--an attitude that seems to continue.

What makes Greening equal or more valuable than Read?
He brings size, which if you haven't noticed, we've been adding that this offseason. He also hits everything.

Also, would you stop pretending that your offer has anything in common with theirs? You were asking us to add the 6th overall pick.

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07-03-2012, 10:01 AM
  #22
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
He brings size, which if you haven't noticed, we've been adding that this offseason. He also hits everything.

Also, would you stop pretending that your offer has anything in common with theirs? You were asking us to add the 6th overall pick.
You're either accidentally or intentionally confusing the issue: That wasn't the same offer. What you're referring to was a much bigger package--which also included Voracek, Mezsaros, and the flyers 1st round pick. No one ever proposed Schenn + Read for Ryan + the 6th overall. Be serious, would you?

In the discussion of what the Flyers would have to add to Schenn just for Ryan, though, most Ducks fans rejected Read (or Meszaros) as an option, and insisted on JVR or Voracek.

That's why I'm surprised that Greening seems acceptable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with the poster above: Zibanejad + Greening + 2nd seems fair value, based on Richards and Carter--though a bit less than Staal just went for.

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07-03-2012, 10:02 AM
  #23
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To

RW Drew Stafford ($4M)
C/W Luke Adam ($950K ELC)
D Andrej Sekera ($2.75M)
2013 1st RND pick


To

RW Bobby Ryan ($5.1M)
D Toni Lydman ($3M UFA)
2013 3rd RND pick


Dealz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by clumping platelets View Post
I could get behind this one

Then add Doan
I'm not sure we could afford him - but we might not need to with Armia coming next year sometime...

Ryan-Hodgson-Pominville
Foligno-Ennis-Vanek
Leino-Ott-Tropp
Gerbe-McCormick-Kaleta/Scott
X. Grigs, Ellis

Myers-Lydman
Ehrhoff-Sulzer
Regehr-Leopold
X. Pardy, Weber, Brennan

Miller
Enroth

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07-03-2012, 10:07 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
You're either accidentally or intentionally confusing the issue: That wasn't the same offer. What you're referring to was a much bigger package--which also included Voracek, Mezsaros, and the flyers 1st round pick. No one ever proposed Schenn + Read for Ryan + the 6th overall. Be serious, would you?

In the discussion of what the Flyers would have to add to Schenn just for Ryan, though, most Ducks fans rejected Read (or Meszaros) as an option, and insisted on JVR or Voracek.

That's why I'm surprised that Greening seems acceptable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with the poster above: Zibanejad + Greening + 2nd seems fair value, based on Richards and Carter--though a bit less than Staal just went for.
Why don't you cite the actual offer that you're objecting to Ducks fans turning down, and maybe then we can address it?

Also, you're dodging the difference in size and hitting like it's nothing. It isn't.

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07-03-2012, 10:08 AM
  #25
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I've been wondering why we haven't heard more from the Senators. They've been interested in Nash but not Ryan apparently. Ryan would be a great winger for Spezza.

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