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Orange County Nights: The Ballad of Grumpy Bobby [All Bobby Ryan discussion | Part V]

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Old
07-24-2012, 12:36 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Is there any chance he is moved to help try and lock up Getzlaf and/or Perry? Sorry if this stupid question or hypothetical . I honestly don't know much about the Ducks financial situation.
It sounds like the situation with Getzlaf and Perry is waiting until after there's a new CBA in place.

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07-24-2012, 12:37 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Is there any chance he is moved to help try and lock up Getzlaf and/or Perry? Sorry if this stupid question or hypothetical . I honestly don't know much about the Ducks financial situation.
No. That's completely separate.

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07-24-2012, 12:37 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
It sounds like the situation with Getzlaf and Perry is waiting until after there's a new CBA in place.
Makes sense.

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07-24-2012, 12:39 AM
  #754
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@ at all the Ducks posters, fair enough. If he officially and publicly demands a trade, then I will stand by my posts.
If he officially, and publically demands a trade then Anaheim fans would likely be responding differently.

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07-24-2012, 12:42 AM
  #755
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All this speculation as to the Ducks not being interested in Mez (why not?), Murray being scared off of trading Ryan before of the Nash trade, Ducks requiring overpayment for Ryan, Bobby being fine now, because he's quiet....there's no proof, and it's all just wishful thinking. Could Murray get an overpayment and deal him?? Sure! Don't expect either of Schenn or Couturier to fill your seemingly infinite void of a 2C though. You've got an experienced Koivu, and I'm sure Read (C experience) has been offered in real life, not just HF dreamland.

Holland and Cousins would both be ready to step up by the time Koivu finally hangs them up. Read, Cousins, Meszaros, and a pick? Deal Lydman for another pick and insert Mez in his spot. You get Ryan's 70 points from Read and Mez alone, whatever Cousins and the draft pick brings is bonus.
Meszaros is a fine player, but he's not going to be a center piece for Ryan. Is he an upgrade over Lydman? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's smart to move a player like Ryan for him. The Ducks defense is fine. As has been said by Murray himself. He only moves Ryan if it makes the team better now. He's made his changes to the defense, and actually I'd argue that he's trying to make an opening for Vatanen and Lindholm to compete for. Quite simply, we aren't going to be obtaining a defenseman in a deal for Ryan. Murray has said if he'd move Ryan if it was to make the core better now by adding more pieces. Logic and common sense show that the only way this would work is by moving Ryan for two pieces that would help now. So unless Murray is going to go back on his word and lie to the fanbase, that's what has to happen. Considering his job is on the line, I doubt that he does that.

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07-24-2012, 12:47 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Is there any chance he is moved to help try and lock up Getzlaf and/or Perry? Sorry if this stupid question or hypothetical . I honestly don't know much about the Ducks financial situation.
No, not at all really. If Ducks are going to spend about what there they have been, they could actually add a pretty significant player (money wise) and only have to shed someone like Cogliano. Money isn't an issue.

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07-24-2012, 12:49 AM
  #757
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You're missing the point. The Ducks are fine back there. Why is Anaheim going to want some of Ryan's value returning in a defenseman that they don't need right now?
Just bolding this because it's really that simple.

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07-24-2012, 12:49 AM
  #758
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Doesn't work for Anaheim. Giving up Bobby Ryan for a winger who isn't as good, and a couple of draft picks, isn't going to motivate Anaheim to part with him.
Anaheim fans, you need to get this: Ryan said he wants to leave. Just like Nash. Just like Luongo. What this does is that it kills most of the negotiating leverage that your GM has...

Ryan CAN'T be present at the Ducks' training camp, for the management's sake of keeping credibility in front of their players whom they will ask to bleed for the team.

This being said, I think that Ryan is a very similar player to Nash in the manner that he is a proven 30+ goal scorer but that needs a good C...would say that he is one notch lower than Nash but younger with a decent contract...so I would say of equal value from a trade position.

Here is my proposal

Plekanec + Diaz + 2nd pick (2013). You are getting a top two-way second line center who will be your main shutdown man, plus a young puck-moving D-Man signed at a very cap-friendly contract. The 2nd pick is for a crop that is perceived to be the best of the decade.

Anything more, you will end up desperate in September and accepting much less...see Scott Howson for more info.


Last edited by Habsrback: 07-24-2012 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Mixed up name
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07-24-2012, 12:54 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
Anaheim fans, you need to get this: Ryan said he wants to leave. Just like Nash. Just like Luongo. What this does is that it kills most of the negotiating leverage that your GM has...

Ryan CAN'T be present at the Ducks' training camp, for the management's sake of keeping credibility in front of their players whom they will ask to bleed for the team.
He never said that. It's been stated over and over here already and on the other thread: he just wants the rumours to stop.

If Ryan is moved, I think it'll be completely out of the blue when none of us are expecting it. I don't think it will happen this offseason.

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07-24-2012, 12:59 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
Anaheim fans, you need to get this: Ryan said he wants to leave. Just like Nash. Just like Luongo. What this does is that it kills most of the negotiating leverage that your GM has...

Ryan CAN'T be present at the Ducks' training camp, for the management's sake of keeping credibility in front of their players whom they will ask to bleed for the team.

This being said, I think that Ryan is a very similar player to Nash in the manner that he is a proven 30+ goal scorer but that needs a good C...would say that he is one notch lower than Nash but younger with a decent contract...so I would say of equal value from a trade position.

Here is my proposal

Plekanec + Diaz + 2nd pick (2013). You are getting a top two-way second line center who will be your main shutdown man, plus a young puck-moving D-Man signed at a very cap-friendly contract. The 2nd pick is for a crop that is perceived to be the best of the decade.

Anything more, you will end up desperate in September and accepting much less...see Scott Howson for more info.
Habs fans, you need to get this:

First, Ryan did not say he wants to leave. He said he wants to the rumors to stop. Plus he even told Duck fans on his twitter account that people were reading too much into that article. He just wants the rumors to stop. He and Murray have both made it know that Ryan hasn't said he's wanted out. I'll take their word over yours any day.

Second, IF Ryan is moved it won't be to the Habs, and in the extreme unlikely scenario that he does get moved to the Habs, Gally would have to be part of the package.

Third, No GM will ever see Scott Howson for anything.

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07-24-2012, 01:01 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Habs fans, you need to get this:

First, Ryan did not say he wants to leave. He said he wants to the rumors to stop. Plus he even told Duck fans on his twitter account that people were reading too much into that article. He just wants the rumors to stop. He and Murray have both made it know that Ryan hasn't said he's wanted out. I'll take their word over yours any day.

Second, IF Ryan is moved it won't be to the Habs, and in the extreme unlikely scenario that he does get moved to the Habs, Gally would have to be part of the package.

Third, No GM will ever see Scott Howson for anything.
Except his best players when they have a few extra 3rd liners to spare

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07-24-2012, 01:09 AM
  #762
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I hear Cam Fowler also hates Annihime. Ill give you Zac Rinaldo and TWO second rounders for him.

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07-24-2012, 01:14 AM
  #763
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I hear Cam Fowler also hates Annihime. Ill give you Zac Rinaldo and TWO second rounders for him.
We all hate Annihime. They're always trying to copy what we're doing.

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07-24-2012, 01:33 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
Anaheim fans, you need to get this: Ryan said he wants to leave. Just like Nash. Just like Luongo. What this does is that it kills most of the negotiating leverage that your GM has...

Ryan CAN'T be present at the Ducks' training camp, for the management's sake of keeping credibility in front of their players whom they will ask to bleed for the team.

This being said, I think that Ryan is a very similar player to Nash in the manner that he is a proven 30+ goal scorer but that needs a good C...would say that he is one notch lower than Nash but younger with a decent contract...so I would say of equal value from a trade position.

Here is my proposal

Plekanec + Diaz + 2nd pick (2013). You are getting a top two-way second line center who will be your main shutdown man, plus a young puck-moving D-Man signed at a very cap-friendly contract. The 2nd pick is for a crop that is perceived to be the best of the decade.

Anything more, you will end up desperate in September and accepting much less...see Scott Howson for more info.
So, being this wrong some hours ago just wasn't enough, huh?

- Ryan has not said he wants to leave. Unlike Nash. Our leverage is entirely intact.
- Even if he did request a trade, he has no NTC, and can't limit his own market. Again, unlike Nash, Luongo. There isn't 1-5 teams we can talk to, there's 29, including teams that are in much more of a need for a star player than the Rangers were for Nash.
- There's absolutely no issue with Bobby Ryan in training camp.
- Your offer still isn't very good. Plekanec is not old, but he is too old to be our centerpiece for Ryan and Diaz does nothing for us, as our backline is set, and puckmoving defensemen are an organisational strength, with a highly talented one in Vatanen still in Norfolk. It's not the type of offer we'll contemplate trading Ryan for.

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07-24-2012, 01:42 AM
  #765
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Why are Flyers fans still including Meszaros in every proposal when we already have too many NHL defenseman? Fowler, Beauchemin, Allen, Lydman, Souray, Sbisa & Vatanen are all going to be needing ice time this year.

Anyway if the Flyers want Ryan without giving up Schenn or Couturier then it will likely take two of Simmonds/Read/Voracek + a 1st to make it happen. Which I'm not sure makes the Flyers any better.

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07-24-2012, 01:48 AM
  #766
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Why are Flyers fans still including Meszaros in every proposal when we already have too many NHL defenseman? Fowler, Beauchemin, Allen, Lydman, Souray, Sbisa & Vatanen are all going to be needing ice time this year.

Anyway if the Flyers want Ryan without giving up Schenn or Couturier then it will likely take two of Simmonds/Read/Voracek + a 1st to make it happen. Which I'm not sure makes the Flyers any better.
Was going to post something similar. Dregger reported what we've been saying a while back (2nd line center would have to be part of package in return for Ryan), but I really don't think Murray sees it that way. I sure as hell hope he does, but I think what it's more about is if Ryan is moved, its trading a 1st line winger for two top 6 forwards plus a future piece.

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07-24-2012, 01:51 AM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Was going to post something similar. Dregger reported what we've been saying a while back (2nd line center would have to be part of package in return for Ryan), but I really don't think Murray sees it that way. I sure as hell hope he does, but I think what it's more about is if Ryan is moved, its trading a 1st line winger for two top 6 forwards plus a future piece.
Why do you think that Murray doesn't see it that way?

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07-24-2012, 02:19 AM
  #768
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Why do you think that Murray doesn't see it that way?
Just the indication I get. Haven't heard anything on it or anything. Here's a few personal reasons though:

-Murray has never shown any urgency in adding a 2nd line center. People blame the market and what not, but I just don't see the urgency.

-Once Rumors started coming out of Boston about Ryan, it was reported that the Ducks weren't looking at Krejci, but I think it was Marchand or Lucic? Can't remember, but I do know it wasn't a center.

-Murray's comments when Koivu was re-signed gave me strong indication that Koivu was fine at 2nd line center and he was completely content with leaving it that way.

-There were rumors that Murray was close to moving Ryan to Philly at the draft, very close in fact. Rumors started coming out that it was move with Reid as the main piece. (Not a center)

It's all pure speculation on my part. It's probably also due to me having zero faith in Murray recognizing what I would say is our biggest weakness, but I just don't believe it is essential for Murray to add a 2nd line center for Ryan. I hope he does, and it's encouraging that Dregger said it would have to be a piece, but I honestly don't think it's a "must" for Murray. I think Murray wants two players that can contribute now (2 top 6 forwards) and a future piece. I believe he'd prefer one of those guys to be a center, but I don't think it's essential for him. Hope I'm wrong though.

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07-24-2012, 02:44 AM
  #769
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Matt Read can play center or wing.

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07-24-2012, 02:51 AM
  #770
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Just the indication I get. Haven't heard anything on it or anything. Here's a few personal reasons though:

-Murray has never shown any urgency in adding a 2nd line center. People blame the market and what not, but I just don't see the urgency.

-Once Rumors started coming out of Boston about Ryan, it was reported that the Ducks weren't looking at Krejci, but I think it was Marchand or Lucic? Can't remember, but I do know it wasn't a center.

-Murray's comments when Koivu was re-signed gave me strong indication that Koivu was fine at 2nd line center and he was completely content with leaving it that way.

-There were rumors that Murray was close to moving Ryan to Philly at the draft, very close in fact. Rumors started coming out that it was move with Reid as the main piece. (Not a center)

It's all pure speculation on my part. It's probably also due to me having zero faith in Murray recognizing what I would say is our biggest weakness, but I just don't believe it is essential for Murray to add a 2nd line center for Ryan. I hope he does, and it's encouraging that Dregger said it would have to be a piece, but I honestly don't think it's a "must" for Murray. I think Murray wants two players that can contribute now (2 top 6 forwards) and a future piece. I believe he'd prefer one of those guys to be a center, but I don't think it's essential for him. Hope I'm wrong though.
I definitely agree with your overall feelings. I personally don't think he's been active enough in trying to get a 2nd line C, and I'm not talking about just this offseason. But the fact that there hasn't been a trade with Philly gives me a strong sense that he really was demanding a centre in return.

As for Koivu, I personally thought he was going to be the 2nd line C all along. He signed him for more than last year and like you said, hasn't really given any indication about what else he could possibly do there. Imo, a Ryan trade or Holland stepping up were the only two things that would've ever prevented Koivu from being the 2nd line pivot in 12-13.

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07-24-2012, 02:55 AM
  #771
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Read is a center; he mostly played wing for the Flyers b/c that's where they needed him, and b/c he can play all forward positions. He also did decent work pk'ing and on the pp point. He's probably very underrated. It's hard to tell after one season, but, if he was a 20 year old rookie, I'm sure he'd garner much more attention, respect, and value.

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07-24-2012, 02:57 AM
  #772
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-There were rumors that Murray was close to moving Ryan to Philly at the draft, very close in fact. Rumors started coming out that it was move with Reid as the main piece. (Not a center)
There haven't been any rumors, however, of anyone willing to match the top-six center, top-six winger, and high draft pick/solid prospect asking price. Which, really, is the only news that came out of the whole Ryan saga (if we're looking at real insiders here). So no, I don't see any way that he's getting dealt.

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07-24-2012, 02:58 AM
  #773
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Just the indication I get. Haven't heard anything on it or anything. Here's a few personal reasons though:

-Murray has never shown any urgency in adding a 2nd line center. People blame the market and what not, but I just don't see the urgency.

-Once Rumors started coming out of Boston about Ryan, it was reported that the Ducks weren't looking at Krejci, but I think it was Marchand or Lucic? Can't remember, but I do know it wasn't a center.

-Murray's comments when Koivu was re-signed gave me strong indication that Koivu was fine at 2nd line center and he was completely content with leaving it that way.

-There were rumors that Murray was close to moving Ryan to Philly at the draft, very close in fact. Rumors started coming out that it was move with Reid as the main piece. (Not a center)

It's all pure speculation on my part. It's probably also due to me having zero faith in Murray recognizing what I would say is our biggest weakness, but I just don't believe it is essential for Murray to add a 2nd line center for Ryan. I hope he does, and it's encouraging that Dregger said it would have to be a piece, but I honestly don't think it's a "must" for Murray. I think Murray wants two players that can contribute now (2 top 6 forwards) and a future piece. I believe he'd prefer one of those guys to be a center, but I don't think it's essential for him. Hope I'm wrong though.
According to Stephens, 2C is at the top of his list to address this season. Hell, there's been a bit from other beat writers saying that is what we're after. This sounds like the Murray hate talking.

I don't remember anything saying that we weren't looking at Krejci. I did read that Boston wasn't willing to give Krejci or Lucic up.

Those rumors about Read weren't coming from any of the reputable places. LeBrun seemed to be the only one with a rep that named a piece, and according to him, we wanted Schenn.

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07-24-2012, 03:00 AM
  #774
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No. To Me, Simmonds is an untouchable. I really don't understand all the hype around Ryan.

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07-24-2012, 03:22 AM
  #775
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Hey it's this thread again!

Unless Schenn or Couturier is coming back, there's no way that Ryan goes to Flyers.

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