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2012 NBA Off-Season Thread: There's a new team in town

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:57 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
It would make sense to not match Lin in any context but this one. All Carmelo and Stat have proven is that they can limp into the playoffs, and yet we're going for it hard and fast.

If we're going for it you sign Lin and legitimately go for it.

The luxury tax to Dolan is a drop in the bucket when you then consider how much money he'll make from marketing Lin overseas.

And I was one of the few people here who didn't buy into "linsanity" when he was dominating. I'm pretty sure I remember getting called out for it. But right now he's better than Ray Felton and has the potential to be MUCH better than Ray Felton. If we're going for it, you bite the bullet.
I would normally agree, except Lin showed that he doesnt want to play for the Knicks.

Houston gave him an initial offer, the Knicks announced they would match it. He and his agent went back to Houston and told them to raise it so that it would be impossible for the Knicks to match again.

Isola brings up a good point -- Can you imagine if the Knicks did what Houston is doing?

Lin was cut by the Rockets because they felt that Dragic is better (he is). They lose Lion for nothing, then lose Dragic and give Lin an astronomical contract to return.

Idiots, if you ask me. They make the Knicks look smart.

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07-16-2012, 09:11 AM
  #252
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Why are people so concerned with this contract?

Knicks will have no cap space regardless with or without him. The only player better than Lin you can possibly get is the pipedream of a S&T for Chris Paul, which is not happening. This team has a 3 year window, anyways. All that comes into this is the luxury tax which is coming out of Dolan's pocket.

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07-16-2012, 09:22 AM
  #253
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I would normally agree, except Lin showed that he doesnt want to play for the Knicks.

Houston gave him an initial offer, the Knicks announced they would match it. He and his agent went back to Houston and told them to raise it so that it would be impossible for the Knicks to match again.

Isola brings up a good point -- Can you imagine if the Knicks did what Houston is doing?

Lin was cut by the Rockets because they felt that Dragic is better (he is). They lose Lion for nothing, then lose Dragic and give Lin an astronomical contract to return.

Idiots, if you ask me. They make the Knicks look smart.

Marc Berman ‏@NYPost_Berman
Confidant tells Post that Jeremy Lin still wants to play for Knicks

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07-16-2012, 09:46 AM
  #254
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Apples and Oranges.

You're comparing a point guard to a small forward.

And I said top-5 scorers in the league, which Anthony most certainly is.

4th among active players in PPG.

And you struggle with it because you absolutely detest him as a human being, while rational people who dont like him do so because he's a ball hog.
Ah, because being a ballhog is the only negative attribute one can pin on him?

I don't detest him as a human being; I detest him as a professional athlete, because when you add up ALL of the negative attributes, he begins to look like a poster child for everything that's wrong with professional sports.

-Refusal to do the two most important things necessary to win in this sport: pass and defend
-Repeated refusals to adhere to instructions from his coaches.
-Gotten past the first round of the playoffs once in nine years
-The entire saga of him leaving Denver and getting to NY
-Plenty of evidence that he played to get D'Antoni fired/make D'Antoni quit.
-Several instances in his career where he's shown up fat and out of shape, including last season.
-He seems to believe he's entitled to being treated like a superstar, but he isn't one, and hasn't done anything to earn that type of treatment
-This Lin comment.

Ballhog is just one of many things about him that I find difficult to tolerate. There are plenty of guys who ranked high on the scoring charts, guys who were and are much better players than Anthony, that never behaved in such a repugnant manner. Guys who put winning and the team above themselves.

The contortionist act you pull to defend Anthony and escape logic in virtually every scenario that comes up, BTW, is hardly rational (though it is entertaining). PG is the most important position in the game today, and he makes more money than three of the best PGs in the game, all of whom are more valuable and simply better players than he is.

Again, when is the last time a player in the NBA made such a subjective comment to the press about another player, much less a teammate, trying to get paid? There was absolutely no reason for him to make that comment, not just because Lin is trying to do the same thing the vast majority of guys would do in his situation (try to get paid), but because Anthony has done so many things that one can term as ridiculous, too.

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It's a business decision and a pretty smart one. Besides, the Knicks don't need Lin to sell out games, let alone win them.
Of course, it's a business decision. Everything they've done starting with the Anthony trade and since has been a business decision, because they certainly haven't been basketball decisions. They certainly haven't been aimed at winning.

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07-16-2012, 09:59 AM
  #255
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Felton is garbage. Any Knick fan that think he's the answer is fooling themselves.
Another Mike no D---Antoni product.

Yeah I know Lin looked good under no D----Antoni, but he played well post no D----Antoni too.
The sample size is much larger too with Felton's career, that suggest he's not that good.

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07-16-2012, 10:04 AM
  #256
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Gotta say, thrilled and glad Lin will not be on the Knicks.

The amount of cover the terrible knicks got undeservingly because of him was a joke last season and that shoukd have been going to the Rangers.

Farewell Lin!

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07-16-2012, 10:14 AM
  #257
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He made the Knicks better in the past though, so I'm not sure how you can definitively say he won't now.
Felton didnt make the Knicks better in the past,D'Antoni's system made him better then he really is.its no coincidence that everywhere Feltons played(with teams that run half court offenses) hes sucked.he only thrived with the Knicks because they ran an uptempo offense.

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07-16-2012, 10:19 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by CKL889 View Post
Gotta say, thrilled and glad Lin will not be on the Knicks.

The amount of cover the terrible knicks got undeservingly because of him was a joke last season and that shoukd have been going to the Rangers.

Farewell Lin!
Yea because now that Lin isn't here anymore the media will suddenly decide to turn their attention to the Rangers. As both a diehard Rangers and Knicks fan I know the Knicks will always, I repeat, ALWAYS, get more coverage than the Ranger because quite frankly there a at least quadruple the number of Knicks fans to Ranger fans. So the idea that a player is no longer on the team anymore, or how/bad good they are, will suddenly draw attention away from the Knicks is nearly as laughable and not understanding the Rangers will always be 4th-5th string in this town.

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07-16-2012, 10:37 AM
  #259
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The Knicks will not be able to do a S&T with Paul because they're paying luxury tax. Starting next year/summer I believe.
Knicks have no cap space to outright sign him.
Only way to get him is to do a trade before the deadline. Which isn't happening.

So no CP3 in NY. As soon as they signed Chandler it was never happening.

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07-16-2012, 11:43 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Ah, because being a ballhog is the only negative attribute one can pin on him?

I don't detest him as a human being; I detest him as a professional athlete, because when you add up ALL of the negative attributes, he begins to look like a poster child for everything that's wrong with professional sports.

-Refusal to do the two most important things necessary to win in this sport: pass and defend
-Repeated refusals to adhere to instructions from his coaches.
-Gotten past the first round of the playoffs once in nine years
-The entire saga of him leaving Denver and getting to NY
-Plenty of evidence that he played to get D'Antoni fired/make D'Antoni quit.
-Several instances in his career where he's shown up fat and out of shape, including last season.
-He seems to believe he's entitled to being treated like a superstar, but he isn't one, and hasn't done anything to earn that type of treatment
-This Lin comment.

Ballhog is just one of many things about him that I find difficult to tolerate. There are plenty of guys who ranked high on the scoring charts, guys who were and are much better players than Anthony, that never behaved in such a repugnant manner. Guys who put winning and the team above themselves.

The contortionist act you pull to defend Anthony and escape logic in virtually every scenario that comes up, BTW, is hardly rational (though it is entertaining). PG is the most important position in the game today, and he makes more money than three of the best PGs in the game, all of whom are more valuable and simply better players than he is.

Again, when is the last time a player in the NBA made such a subjective comment to the press about another player, much less a teammate, trying to get paid? There was absolutely no reason for him to make that comment, not just because Lin is trying to do the same thing the vast majority of guys would do in his situation (try to get paid), but because Anthony has done so many things that one can term as ridiculous, too.

Of course, it's a business decision. Everything they've done starting with the Anthony trade and since has been a business decision, because they certainly haven't been basketball decisions. They certainly haven't been aimed at winning.

Oh, please. You're not even a Knicks fan. Why shouldnt I support him? Unlike you, I'm a Knicks fan. You're the one who abandoned ship and roots for some random Western Conference team.

Sorry but I just don't take you seriously on anything Anthony related, especially after you buried your head in the sand and were nowhere to be found when he was the league's best player during the critical portion of the season.

And besides, that trade is looking more and more like a steal, especially when you consider Mozgov played in more games last year than both Gallinari and Chandler, and Felton is right back on the Knicks again.

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07-16-2012, 11:47 AM
  #261
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And this "D'antoni's system" is such garbage. What system is that? Oh, the not winning and ignoring defense system? Where do I sign?

When can we officially change it to the "Steve Nash is my Starting Point Guard System".

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07-16-2012, 11:51 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Yea because now that Lin isn't here anymore the media will suddenly decide to turn their attention to the Rangers. As both a diehard Rangers and Knicks fan I know the Knicks will always, I repeat, ALWAYS, get more coverage than the Ranger because quite frankly there a at least quadruple the number of Knicks fans to Ranger fans. So the idea that a player is no longer on the team anymore, or how/bad good they are, will suddenly draw attention away from the Knicks is nearly as laughable and not understanding the Rangers will always be 4th-5th string in this town.
Thats true, but the whole Lin thing still went so crazy and overboard last season that it was driving me nuts

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07-16-2012, 11:59 AM
  #263
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And this "D'antoni's system" is such garbage. What system is that? Oh, the not winning and ignoring defense system? Where do I sign?

When can we officially change it to the "Steve Nash is my Starting Point Guard System".
the system that more Boris Diaw,Barbosa and countless others look like All Stars?the System that took the Suns deep in the playoffs year after year?the system that made Stat and Nash the most lethal 1-2 combo in the league?

oh,THAT system

the system works when you have the right pieces to it.whether you play defense or not.the Suns proved that.the Knicks didnt have the right pieces and it showed

im not a fan of the system but if you build the right team for it,it can work wonders

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07-16-2012, 12:09 PM
  #264
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Thats true, but the whole Lin thing still went so crazy and overboard last season that it was driving me nuts
EVERYONE loves an underdog story. This isn't something that's singular because it's the Knicks. An underdog success story will get airtime no matter what team, sport he plays. See Prucha, Peter.

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07-16-2012, 12:12 PM
  #265
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Oh, please. You're not even a Knicks fan. Why shouldnt I support him? Unlike you, I'm a Knicks fan. You're the one who abandoned ship and roots for some random Western Conference team.
I never said you shouldn't support him. But there's a difference between supporting and weaving between fact and logic to come up with convenient defenses for the plethora of occasions when Anthony does something that deserves to be criticized.

And I don't feel that I abandoned anything. I think the Knicks abandoned two crucial draws for me as a sports fan, at least in my opinion: the drive to win, and the desire to win while exhibiting at least a modicum of class. When those two things were left at the side of the road, I decided to start rooting for a team that symbolized both qualities.

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Sorry but I just don't take you seriously on anything Anthony related, especially after you buried your head in the sand and were nowhere to be found when he was the league's best player during the critical portion of the season.
Perhaps you didn't notice, but my activity was highly limited during that period of time on the entire board, not just this thread. Unfortunately, I had more pressing concerns in my life than posting here during that tine. But I did have enough time to watch sports, even if I didn't have the time to post about them here. At no point was Anthony the league's best player last season (talk about ridiculous), and I'm pretty sure that during the most critical portion of the season, the playoffs, he did just as he always has: lost immediately.

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And besides, that trade is looking more and more like a steal, especially when you consider Mozgov played in more games last year than both Gallinari and Chandler, and Felton is right back on the Knicks again.
How could that trade be a steal if the Nuggets were a better team and had a more successful season last year than the Knicks did? We'll see how much of a factor injuries are going forward, but I'd much rather have two quality starters who are effective at both ends of the floor and a solid backup center than one black hole who doesn't defend.

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And this "D'antoni's system" is such garbage. What system is that? Oh, the not winning and ignoring defense system? Where do I sign?

When can we officially change it to the "Steve Nash is my Starting Point Guard System".
You already did: Carmelo Anthony.

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07-16-2012, 12:55 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Oh, please. You're not even a Knicks fan. Why shouldnt I support him? Unlike you, I'm a Knicks fan. You're the one who abandoned ship and roots for some random Western Conference team.

Sorry but I just don't take you seriously on anything Anthony related, especially after you buried your head in the sand and were nowhere to be found when he was the league's best player during the critical portion of the season.

And besides, that trade is looking more and more like a steal, especially when you consider Mozgov played in more games last year than both Gallinari and Chandler, and Felton is right back on the Knicks again.
I'm a die hard knicks fan actually, and I can tell you that the worst thing to happen to the Knicks since Isaiah is carmelo..Why? NYR STING has been stating reasons all season and I agree with everything he said about Carmelo

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07-16-2012, 01:27 PM
  #267
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Theres a team you can win with. Knicks were good and exciting for about a 15 game period last year, all without Carmelo Anthony in the fold.

Its a damn shame.

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07-16-2012, 01:30 PM
  #268
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Theres a team you can win with. Knicks were good and exciting for about a 15 game period last year, all without Carmelo Anthony in the fold.

Its a damn shame.
Seems like to me that they just had a hot streak for a few weeks, nothing more. The team was never very good and only got worse this offseason.

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07-16-2012, 01:37 PM
  #269
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Seems like to me that they just had a hot streak for a few weeks, nothing more. The team was never very good and only got worse this offseason.
Looked better in those games than they ever have with Melo/Stat running playing together..

They sure did get worse this offseason, silly move after silly move.

Only thing that would have made it worse was if they traded Shumpert for Nash, as rumored.

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07-16-2012, 02:09 PM
  #270
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Looked better in those games than they ever have with Melo/Stat running playing together..

They sure did get worse this offseason, silly move after silly move.

Only thing that would have made it worse was if they traded Shumpert for Nash, as rumored.
I like the camby signing alot

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07-16-2012, 02:16 PM
  #271
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Looked better in those games than they ever have with Melo/Stat running playing together..

They sure did get worse this offseason, silly move after silly move.

Only thing that would have made it worse was if they traded Shumpert for Nash, as rumored.
Who says they got worse this offseason? Only in your opinion they did. It's certainly not a fact yet as that's too be determined.

Did they get older? Yes. And even though I would have liked to have Lin back I won't be devastated over it.

I look at it like we have the deepest team in the NBA. While LeBron/Wade/Bosh>>Melo/STAT/Chandler they have nothing on our bench.

Health is a major issue. If we're healthy we have a chance to use our depth to devastate teams. Hell, our second unit is better than some teams starting line ups.

So your opinion that they got worse this offseason is baseless until we actually see them play. I look at it like they added great depth. Well see what it translates to on the court. Just hold off on the sinking ship belief.

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07-16-2012, 02:17 PM
  #272
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Alan Hahn: There have been suggestions that Melo was resentful of the attention Lin received last season and also that Lin's interest in remaining a Knick has waned because he doesn't want to play with Melo. The two went out to dinner in June, along with Tyson Chandler, in an attempt to develop a better understanding of each other, discuss the future and air out any lingering issues. Apparently it didn't work.

Still, Melo's strong words about Lin's impending big payday were troublesome and created a media firestorm that motivated Melo to fire back later in the day.

"I'm tired of people trying to blame me for the fact that the Knicks might not match," he said to Yahoo! Sports. "I want everybody to get paid if they have the opportunity."

If you know Melo, you know he is big on having players earn their stripes when they come into the NBA. He orders rookies to carry equipment and, occasionally, his bag. He believes status is something you earn over time, as you prove yourself in the league over the course of a season or two. So Lin's ascension into stardom and as a main face of the franchise is, without question, something Melo has tried to counter with some humble pie. That's been going on in the NBA for decades.

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07-16-2012, 02:18 PM
  #273
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Besides Lin, the only issue I have with the off-season is letting Jeffries go in favor of Kurt Thomas.

I mean really? Can he even still play? That is not a good move.

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07-16-2012, 02:22 PM
  #274
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Alan Hahn: There have been suggestions that Melo was resentful of the attention Lin received last season and also that Lin's interest in remaining a Knick has waned because he doesn't want to play with Melo. The two went out to dinner in June, along with Tyson Chandler, in an attempt to develop a better understanding of each other, discuss the future and air out any lingering issues. Apparently it didn't work.

Still, Melo's strong words about Lin's impending big payday were troublesome and created a media firestorm that motivated Melo to fire back later in the day.

"I'm tired of people trying to blame me for the fact that the Knicks might not match," he said to Yahoo! Sports. "I want everybody to get paid if they have the opportunity."

If you know Melo, you know he is big on having players earn their stripes when they come into the NBA. He orders rookies to carry equipment and, occasionally, his bag. He believes status is something you earn over time, as you prove yourself in the league over the course of a season or two. So Lin's ascension into stardom and as a main face of the franchise is, without question, something Melo has tried to counter with some humble pie. That's been going on in the NBA for decades.

Melo's "ridiculous" comments and J.R's comments suggest that they're jealous of Lin. imo.

Melo's seems like someone who wants the all the attention and the spot light always on him.
I like Melo and I'm saying this.

He reminds me of Arod a bit. With the constant insert foot in mouth comments.

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07-16-2012, 04:06 PM
  #275
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the system that more Boris Diaw,Barbosa and countless others look like All Stars?the System that took the Suns deep in the playoffs year after year?the system that made Stat and Nash the most lethal 1-2 combo in the league?

oh,THAT system

the system works when you have the right pieces to it.whether you play defense or not.the Suns proved that.the Knicks didnt have the right pieces and it showed

im not a fan of the system but if you build the right team for it,it can work wonders
No, I was talking about the system in which he's 156-243 without Steve Nash.

Nash was a two-time all star in Dallas. You know, the team he played for before he went to Phoenix.

Mike Woodson had the same pieces D'antoni had. I guess Dan Gadzuric was the key to the Knicks' success under Woodson.

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