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Flames player development, was Erixon right?

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Old
07-03-2012, 02:19 PM
  #1
CGYPUKSUX
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Flames player development, was Erixon right?

I know it's early in the off-season, and there is time to make more moves, but I'm wondering about the direction Feaster is going so far. The team is close to being pretty well set with all the veterans he's signed, leaving no room for young guys to make the team in camp. I really don't like seeing a roster already filled out, with no holes for kids, and we haven't even reached prospect camp. This leaves me wondering, how does this impact the young players in the organization? Do they look at the roster and give up hope for earning a job? Does this leave the team open to other players doing whatever it takes to get out of the Calgary system and into others where players get a chance to play in the NHL?

This has to be pretty disheartening to players like Horak, who was on the roster all last season, Nemisz and Bouma, who looked good in their call ups, Byron, who has been trying to break in for the past two years, and youngsters like Reinhart, who Feaster commented during the AHL playoffs had a chance to make the club this year.

Is this also a reason why Calgary has a reputation of having a horrible development system? They never give their home grown players a chance to play, fearing success and the moves they would then be forced to make? I look back to last season the Flames played their best when half the veterans were injured and young kids were doing their thing. Discuss.

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07-03-2012, 02:21 PM
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So were just suppose to leave roster spots empty to slot a prospect in. Its their job to earn a spot not have one given to them. Baertschi is expected to make the team, even Feaster has said so. Bouma will probably make it to, so what is the problem.

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07-03-2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I know it's early in the off-season, and there is time to make more moves, but I'm wondering about the direction Feaster is going so far. The team is close to being pretty well set with all the veterans he's signed, leaving no room for young guys to make the team in camp. I really don't like seeing a roster already filled out, with no holes for kids, and we haven't even reached prospect camp. This leaves me wondering, how does this impact the young players in the organization? Do they look at the roster and give up hope for earning a job? Does this leave the team open to other players doing whatever it takes to get out of the Calgary system and into others where players get a chance to play in the NHL?

This has to be pretty disheartening to players like Horak, who was on the roster all last season, Nemisz and Bouma, who looked good in their call ups, Byron, who has been trying to break in for the past two years, and youngsters like Reinhart, who Feaster commented during the AHL playoffs had a chance to make the club this year.

Is this also a reason why Calgary has a reputation of having a horrible development system? They never give their home grown players a chance to play, fearing success and the moves they would then be forced to make? I look back to last season the Flames played their best when half the veterans were injured and young kids were doing their thing. Discuss.
How did I know it would be you when I clicked on the thread title.

How many games did Erixon play in NY this season? Because he would of played 82 here.

I think its got more to do with a lack of prospects who can push for a roster spot. I agree that we should be giving young guys more of a chance instead of filling those bottom-6 spots with guys like Stemp.

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07-03-2012, 02:24 PM
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We already have a couple spots in our bottom 6 for the named rookies to compete for. Any injury or trade also will open spots. I expect the same amount of playing time for these guys as last year. IMO None of them have completely earned a spot on the team.

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07-03-2012, 02:39 PM
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#timerixonwho?

He would have been given every chance to play in the NHL with the Flames last season - instead Brodie got that opportunity and ran with it.

He wanted to be part of the Rangers organization - and got his wish. The development excuse was just that - an excuse.

Going into next season, the Flames will most likely have at least four guys aged 22 and under in the lineup (Backlund, Baertschi, Brodie, and Bouma) - and apparently we didn't get past the "B's" in the scouting reports... Horak, Byron, and Nemisz won't be just given a roster spot, they will have to take them away from guys like Comeau, Jackman or whoever.

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07-03-2012, 02:40 PM
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If we have even half of the amount of injuries this year as we did last year, there will be some playing time for prospects. Likewise, after the trade deadline could mean big NHL minutes for youngsters. With a surplus of players, we could package quanitity for quality and then give out spots to prospects. Or we could trade players after training camp because they lost a job to a prospect. The chances are there.

Those who came making an impact last year (ie, Aliu and Baertschi) can have a spot if they display the same performance during training camp. No question.

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07-03-2012, 02:44 PM
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Look how well Brodie excelled last season. If Erixon was here, he'd have been able to do that.

Players like Nemisz, Horak... they simply aren't ready (especially Nemisz). Nemisz couldn't skate out of a paper bag, and while Horak was solid defensively, he still has a lot to learn in terms of the offensive side of his game.

Baertschi will get his chance, obviously.

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07-03-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
So were just suppose to leave roster spots empty to slot a prospect in. Its their job to earn a spot not have one given to them. Baertschi is expected to make the team, even Feaster has said so. Bouma will probably make it to, so what is the problem.
Count the one-way contracts on the projected lineup.

Tanguay-Cammalleri-Iginla
Glencross-Cervenka*-Hudler
Bartschi-Stajan-Stempniak
Comeau-Backlund-Jackman
Jones

Bouwmeester-Butler
Giordano-Wideman
Smith-Sarich
Brodie-Babchuk

Kiprusoff
Irving
Karlsson

*Cervenka is pretty well on a one way contract. He has an out clause in his entry level deal that if he does not make the team, or is demoted at any time, he can return to Europe and play for the highest bidder.

Where is the space for the youth? And yes, after the past three seasons, and especially after the job done to get back in the race last season, this team should be leaving room at the bottom for youth.

I'm a little surprised no one else has picked up on this, considering the team was all about intellectual honesty and making changes. Frankly, I don't see replacing Jokinen with Cervenka, Hannan with Wideman, and Moss with Hudler as massive change. Some of the guys that we could have improved upon from within, like Jackman, Stempniak and Comeau, especially Comeau, being brought back seems counter productive to a team that floundered last season. I'd just rather see Bouma and Nemisz on the 4th line and Horak getting a shot on the third.

Hey, maybe Feaster will surprise and move Stajan, Babchuk and Jackman to make room. Maybe he'll really surprise and move Bouwmeester and Backlund and really shake things up. I just think its time to give our own developing players a chance to play.

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07-03-2012, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
So were just suppose to leave roster spots empty to slot a prospect in. Its their job to earn a spot not have one given to them. Baertschi is expected to make the team, even Feaster has said so. Bouma will probably make it to, so what is the problem.
I'm not sure how you can logically expect a prospect to earn a spot if there's more than a dozen one way contracts in front of him, all of whom are making salaries of a million plus. Feaster did the exact same thing Sutter did, pronounce a number of prospects good enough to be on the NHL roster for the next season, but then sign a slew of vets to one way contracts in free agency, essentially burying those prospects. Comeau was grossly unneeded, his role could have easily been filled by Nemisz or Aliu. Jackman could have been replaced by Bouma.

Prospects should have to earn a spot on a roster, but the team should also give them the opportunity to earn said spot. The Flames don't do that.

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07-03-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I know it's early in the off-season, and there is time to make more moves, but I'm wondering about the direction Feaster is going so far. The team is close to being pretty well set with all the veterans he's signed, leaving no room for young guys to make the team in camp. I really don't like seeing a roster already filled out, with no holes for kids, and we haven't even reached prospect camp. This leaves me wondering, how does this impact the young players in the organization? Do they look at the roster and give up hope for earning a job? Does this leave the team open to other players doing whatever it takes to get out of the Calgary system and into others where players get a chance to play in the NHL?

This has to be pretty disheartening to players like Horak, who was on the roster all last season, Nemisz and Bouma, who looked good in their call ups, Byron, who has been trying to break in for the past two years, and youngsters like Reinhart, who Feaster commented during the AHL playoffs had a chance to make the club this year.

Is this also a reason why Calgary has a reputation of having a horrible development system? They never give their home grown players a chance to play, fearing success and the moves they would then be forced to make? I look back to last season the Flames played their best when half the veterans were injured and young kids were doing their thing. Discuss.
its almost mandatory that you play in the AHL for 2-3 years if your a detroit prospect. they seem to be doing just fine.....

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07-03-2012, 02:53 PM
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Mostly because most of our prospects aren't at that stage where they can be NHL regulars. They'll see time from callups here and there

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07-03-2012, 02:56 PM
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Baertschi, Bouma, Iriving, Brodie, Backlund, Cervenka....

Maybe Aliu (doubt it.)

You have to earn it. You can't have young guns feeling entitled to anything. It's the NHL. Earn it!

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07-03-2012, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
How did I know it would be you when I clicked on the thread title.
You mean you couldn't tell before you came into the thread? The name of the thread starter was right there. I mean, it isn't brain surgery to figure out who started the thread.



Quote:
How many games did Erixon play in NY this season? Because he would of played 82 here.
That's kind of the point. It would have been better for Erixon to stay in Calgary, but he elected to go elsewhere where he believed he would get a better chance of playing. Does Calgary have, or are they developing a reputation of not giving kids a chance? I know back in the day, there were teams you did not want to play for because they played favorites or didn't give younger guys a chance. Are the Flames becoming one of those?

Quote:
I think its got more to do with a lack of prospects who can push for a roster spot. I agree that we should be giving young guys more of a chance instead of filling those bottom-6 spots with guys like Stemp.
Okay, so we agree we should be giving growing opportunities. Why the dickish response?

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07-03-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Count the one-way contracts on the projected lineup.

Tanguay-Cammalleri-Iginla
Glencross-Cervenka*-Hudler
Bartschi-Stajan-Stempniak
Comeau-Backlund-Jackman
Jones

Bouwmeester-Butler
Giordano-Wideman
Smith-Sarich
Brodie-Babchuk

Kiprusoff
Irving
Karlsson
A one-way contract doesn't mean that much. On that list, guys who could easily lose their job to someone from the minors include Jackman, Jones, Comeau, Babchuk (already lost his job IMO), and Karlsson (the backup job is already as good as lost, unless Irving goes to Europe). However, those jobs must be earned.

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07-03-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
You mean you couldn't tell before you came into the thread? The name of the thread starter was right there. I mean, it isn't brain surgery to figure out who started the thread.





That's kind of the point. It would have been better for Erixon to stay in Calgary, but he elected to go elsewhere where he believed he would get a better chance of playing. Does Calgary have, or are they developing a reputation of not giving kids a chance? I know back in the day, there were teams you did not want to play for because they played favorites or didn't give younger guys a chance. Are the Flames becoming one of those?



Okay, so we agree we should be giving growing opportunities. Why the dickish response?
I dont usually look to see who started the thread

As to the bold, no he didn't he wanted to be a Ranger. I think the prospects who have/will earned a spot will play on the team.

As to the response I am kind of a dick Its because you usually start generally negative threads lol.

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07-03-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
I'm not sure how you can logically expect a prospect to earn a spot if there's more than a dozen one way contracts in front of him, all of whom are making salaries of a million plus. Feaster did the exact same thing Sutter did, pronounce a number of prospects good enough to be on the NHL roster for the next season, but then sign a slew of vets to one way contracts in free agency, essentially burying those prospects. Comeau was grossly unneeded, his role could have easily been filled by Nemisz or Aliu. Jackman could have been replaced by Bouma.

Prospects should have to earn a spot on a roster, but the team should also give them the opportunity to earn said spot. The Flames don't do that.
Our depth contracts are short in term and small in $$$. If a kid earns a spot out of camp we have easily movable contracts (ex. Comeau, Stemps, Cervenka, etc...) to bring back something of value like a low pick. In Cervenka's case even lower down in value to waiver material.

I have not seen any flames prospect outside of most of HF's mock lineups for the flames that is better than any of the current players already filling up those positions. It is easy to see where Bartschi will fit, and I'd say he is the only (IMO) lock to make the team. If others do the same (Bouma, Nemisz, Aliu) then I would expect them to be in the lineup opening night. Injuries are always relevent when talking about roster spots, having extra bodies is good. Besides we are so far from the start of the season, I'm definitely expecting more moves.

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07-03-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wally31 View Post
Comeau, Jackman, Karlsson, Stempniak, Cervenka....

You have to earn it. You can't have veterans feeling entitled to anything. It's the NHL. Earn it!
Doesn't this work too?

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07-03-2012, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Doesn't this work too?
I agree. But there is no evidence to suggest we are suppressing our prospects, they simply are not ready outside of Bartschi and Bouma.

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07-03-2012, 03:47 PM
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The young guys have especially had ample time this past year to show what they can bring right now at the NHL level.

Horak has impressed for the first bit, but clearly a full NHL season was a bit much at first. No problem. He now knows what to prepare for and I'm sure management expects him to be back with the main club within a year and stay there.

Brodie? Part of it was that the Flames didn't have that extra #5 veteran defenseman and playing well enough consistently to be part of the big group. People were counting him as a lock I think the season before last year and it didn't happen because it looked like Brodie expected that he was going to be given the spot. The guy came back and competed and is really showing a lot of promise. So far, no problems here.

Irving, outplayed Karlsson. You could argue the team wasn't confident in front of Karlsson, but at the same time, why would they play any better against a tiny guy just from the AHL? Irving has also pushed him way onto the main roster because of his skills. Not because somebody gift wrapped it for him.

Bouma seems to have found his calling on the 4th line/13th forward and who knows? Maybe some more playing time will help him continue to grow nicely into that role but so far he's a forward most of us have been count on our rosters.

Everybody else, Nemisz, Howse, Reinhart, Wahl, Byron...they just need more time.

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07-03-2012, 04:09 PM
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Was Erixon right? Did he make an NHL team last year?

I rest my case.

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07-03-2012, 04:11 PM
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tyflames
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixons Dad View Post
Was Erixon right? Did he make an NHL team last year?

I rest my case.
But Your his dad. Where's the family support here

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07-03-2012, 04:12 PM
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But Your his dad. Where's the family support here

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07-03-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixons Dad View Post
Was Erixon right? Did he make an NHL team last year?

I rest my case.
You missed the point. The issue was the perception of opportunity in Calgary versus elsewhere, not whether he would make the team in New York.

I just hope that other prospects don't view Calgary as a team where young players don't get a chance. The Sutter regime always had the stigma of preferring veterans over youth, so that may be why our prospects never got more than a cup of coffee with the big team while a long list of washed up vets and experienced pluggers were brought in.

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07-03-2012, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Doesn't this work too?
Obviously.

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07-03-2012, 05:21 PM
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The perception is that way simply because we have not drafted well enough in the past to warrant these players getting a full time opportunity.

If they are good enough to play in the NHL, they will play. It's that simple.

Having spoiled, self centered pukes like Tim Erixon jump ship on the organization does not help either. He had the opportunity to play here, but playing time was never the issue. The problem was that Calgary was not associated with his father.

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