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UFA frenzy 2012 Part 2: now with 46% less frenzy than the leading brand.

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Old
07-07-2012, 02:52 AM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
I'd take two more Havlat's too as long as the bench is covered in pillows so all three of them don't get killed hopping over it.
I literally burst out laughing at this...

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07-07-2012, 02:55 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
The only thing I'm going to comment on is the bolded (I pretty much agree with the rest). Joe Thornton came in a got the team to the playoffs in 06, but Marleau got the team to the second round. 9 goals in 11 games, I believe.
Except that some of those goals were Marleau taking feeds from Thorton. Thorton's passing was lights out that year. Looking back at the box scores, the sharks were pretty dominant so it was hardly that Marleau got us there although he was pretty consistent at finishing. I guess that's what he does though... scores like crazy one round per year...


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07-07-2012, 03:02 AM
  #653
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First of all this isn't Marleau sucks. Marleau is a good player but not a great player. Thornton is a great player, he is one of the best players of his generation. Thornton is better. Should we trade either? NO. We should be playing them as a 1-2-3 punch at center (Thornton, Marleau, Couture) and rolling three lines, but TM doesn't understand the concept of depth.

As for the Marleau ever leading this team somewhere.

The farthest the Sharks have been in the playoffs was in 2003-2004 when Damphousse was leading the team through the playoffs. He didn't have a good regular season, but he tore it up in the playoffs. Marleau that year had 8goals (with 6 goals in just 2 games) while Damphousse had 7goals (no multi goal games), Damphousse was consistent and leading the team that playoffs. We had 10 wins in the playoffs.

After Damphousse left, this was Marleau's team to start the 05-06 season, but the Sharks were terrible to start that season.

Then Joe Thornton came and took this team from out of the playoffs to the 5th seed and into the 2nd round. After that year the deepest we have gone is 9 wins in the playoffs. Although we have consistently have been one of the top teams in the NHL until this past year.

In short, we shouldn't trade Thornton or Marleau we need them both. Thornton is the better/more talented/more consistent player of the two.
The whole Damphousse/Marleau thing boils down to this. The team doesn't get that far w/o either. That was a team that relied on three scoring lines and three solid pairs of d-men in front of a very good goalie. Yeah, Damphousse was more consistent but he wasn't winning games by himself. Marleau did that twice...maybe not that impressive but more than anyone else was doing at the time. But Marleau was playing more than any other forward just slightly ahead of Damphousse. To say Damphousse led that team and Marleau didn't is just not something I'm willing to agree with.

As for the 2005-06 season, what were you expecting? That wasn't the 2003-04 team just w/o Damphousse. That was missing another great leader in Mike Ricci. It was missing Alexander Korolyuk. It was missing Mike Rathje. And their replacements were guys like Josh Gorges and Rob Davison for Rathje. They went with Goc in the 2nd line pivot because McCauley wasn't playing well and starting his descent as a player. They had to go with rookie wingers because they couldn't sign back the depth that they lost. And it didn't help that Nabokov stunk that year and he was just as much of a leader on both years as anyone else.

I don't think they should trade either Thornton or Marleau. A team that wants to win now doesn't trade its #1 center and it's most prolific goal scorer and fastest player. When it came to if you had to choose one, who do you choose to move? I chose Thornton because once that comes to pass, you're rebuilding. He is the most valuable. He'll get you the most in a trade. He also is the guy you have to trade in order to even really do a rebuild because you won't be bad enough with him to do a real rebuild...you'll be Calgary or Toronto with him. Not good enough to make the playoffs but not crappy enough for a chance at the #1.

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07-07-2012, 03:08 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Except that some of those goals were Marleau taking feeds from Thorton. Thorton's passing was lights out that year. Looking back at the box scores, the sharks were pretty dominant so it was hardly that Marleau got us there although he was pretty consistent at finishing. I guess that's what he does though... scores like crazy one round per year...
Marleau had four power play goals in that first round series and only one of them was a good Thornton pass that set it up. One was a deflection from Ehrhoff. The other was a ricochet from a Thornton shovel shot to the net. The other was a rebound from a scrum in front that popped out to the point off of Cheechoo's stick.

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07-07-2012, 03:21 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Except that some of those goals were Marleau taking feeds from Thorton. Thorton's passing was lights out that year. Looking back at the box scores, the sharks were pretty dominant so it was hardly that Marleau got us there although he was pretty consistent at finishing. I guess that's what he does though... scores like crazy one round per year...
Nah, I don't recall more than one or two of Marleau's goals being assisted by Jumbo. You can't claim that the Sharks would have gotten to where they did without those nine goals. He was easily our Conn Smythe that season. But yeah, he does usually go nuts in one round and then disappear for the next...

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07-07-2012, 09:09 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
The only things which stood out to me in the Marleau-Bieksa beatdown were

A.) ******* patty you picked a dumb guy to rumble with. I don't even think Bieksa knew what to do the first few seconds. Like he was going "wait. no way. really? k"B.) He displayed some massive balls taking him on and taking that beating

So respect but ******* son you aint Jumbo Joe. But yeah him and Joe were the best Sharks that series.
Thats when Patty shoulda thrown a haymaker, might have change the misfortune into fortune...................or not!

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07-07-2012, 09:53 AM
  #657
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Thats when Patty shoulda thrown a haymaker, might have change the misfortune into fortune...................or not!
Patty doesn't have that in him ...

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07-07-2012, 10:40 AM
  #658
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Go with Thornton-Marleau-Couture as our centers, win the cup, and then start this arguement up over who was the weaker player in winning the cup.

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07-07-2012, 11:07 AM
  #659
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Go with Thornton-Marleau-Couture as our centers, win the cup, and then start this arguement up over who was the weaker player in winning the cup.
This is when Hamilton is called up for the playoffs, gets shorthanded hat tricks and the cup clinching goal. Then we decide that Couture is expendable and try to trade him.

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07-07-2012, 12:18 PM
  #660
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Both Marleau and Thornton haven't got in done because we still haven't won a Cup. Neither have had a 20+ point post-seasons where they just dominate. And given their star status and high paycheques it's not an unreasonable request. It is really disappointing for everyone.

Having a team get one game closer to the Cup Final is really a nothing accomplishment (no one ever said it was) but you can't make the argument that we've done better in the playoffs with Thornton. We have gotten no closer to winning a Cup since Thornton arrived.

That being said, both have had their moments and both have had very good post-seasons. Both get blasted by the media way harder than they should. Thornton had problems earlier in his career with the post-season but lately he really hasn't been the problem. Marleau was actually considered a clutch playoff performer before Thornton got traded to the team, and has been clutch many times since Thornton got here, but one bad series and it's "what have you done for me lately Marleau". It's a team game, and with a better supporting staff there is really no doubt Marleau or Thornton could be a key piece on a Cup winning team. I am not saying they are blameless either, but there is only so much one player can do.

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07-07-2012, 12:24 PM
  #661
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I really hope that no one trades for Roberto. The Canucks don't deserve such a favor. They should have to sit and rot with that ridiculous contract they gave him. They don't deserve to have that cap space freed up while receiving a player or pick that could help them.

The Panthers will be fine without taking that contract on, Theo and Scott did well for them last season and Markstrom should be ready soon.

Burkie shouldn't take on that albatross of a contract for a 33 year old that can't even keep a starting job.

I don't mean to vent but I'm tired of reading/hearing all the speculation around this mediocre goalie who has a contract through 2022! If the Leafs, Hawks or Panthers need an upgrade in the net they should talk to DW about Nemo. He's only 28 and signed at a $3.8 million cap hit for 3 more seasons.

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07-07-2012, 12:28 PM
  #662
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Add in the fact that butterfly goaltenders almost always fall off a cliff when they hit their early thirties. I hope Vancouver is stuck with Luongo.

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07-07-2012, 12:32 PM
  #663
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Add in the fact that butterfly goaltenders almost always fall off a cliff when they hit their early thirties. I hope Vancouver is stuck with Luongo.
Great point. They deserve to be stuck with him and he deserves it too for signing that deal.

I remember reading/hearing last season that the Nucks were the most hated team in the NHL. I don't know why anyone would be so desperate to help them out of this bind...

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07-07-2012, 01:43 PM
  #664
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Add in the fact that butterfly goaltenders almost always fall off a cliff when they hit their early thirties. I hope Vancouver is stuck with Luongo.
Not to say I disagree with you and I know it's an extreme example, but Hasek was effective way past 30. It can be done, and Lu is kind of an athletic freak, if he has a great work ethic with it...

There are probably others, Hasek just stood out in my mind when I read that, and with good reason. Didn't Hank just win a vezina at age 30 also? Doubt he falls off that much.

EDIT:

Tretiak and Nabby played very well past 30 as well. The more I think about it, I don't think Butterfly declines at a much more rapid rate than Stand up goalies, do they?


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07-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #665
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Nabokov is closer to a hybrid/stand-up goalie than he is a butterfly goalie.

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07-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #666
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I was on the borderline on that, but fair enough...

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07-07-2012, 02:13 PM
  #667
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Nabby is styled a lot like Brodeur, right? He's still doing fine at 40.

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07-07-2012, 02:19 PM
  #668
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Nabby is styled a lot like Brodeur, right? He's still doing fine at 40.
Yes. Nabby was not a butterfly goaltender.

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07-07-2012, 02:44 PM
  #669
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speaking of nabs, why is he not our goalie coach yet?

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07-07-2012, 02:53 PM
  #670
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Great point. They deserve to be stuck with him and he deserves it too for signing that deal.

I remember reading/hearing last season that the Nucks were the most hated team in the NHL. I don't know why anyone would be so desperate to help them out of this bind...
Why does he deserve it for signing a deal like that? I would have too. Vancouver is dumb enough to offer it so they deserve the scorn moreso than Lu.

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07-07-2012, 02:55 PM
  #671
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Can someone explain how RFA contracts work? And when would a RFA turn into a UFA???

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07-07-2012, 03:01 PM
  #672
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If you're a RFA then your team has the opportunity to match any offer sheet that you sign. To be a UFA you have to be over 27 or played in the league for 7 years.

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07-07-2012, 03:09 PM
  #673
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speaking of nabs, why is he not our goalie coach yet?
I think he still plays.. Not sure though.

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07-07-2012, 03:14 PM
  #674
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speaking of nabs, why is he not our goalie coach yet?
He still plays for the Islanders

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07-07-2012, 03:22 PM
  #675
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nabby signed a contract (multi year?) with the Islanders. the fans like him a lot over there.


http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1224357

He's their opening day starter on most rosters.

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