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Old
07-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #651
KingPurpleDinosaur
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Anyone remember this?
never heard the words "hometown discount" thrown around like it's an expectation? Or how Penner should re-sign for $2 mil? or Stoll for that matter? come on... I have a bad memory, but even I read enough of that to remember how people throw out ridiculous low-ball numbers as if it were reasonable to have them re-sign at that price.

btw, you're probably not comprehending my point if you were taking my example literally. Good for you.

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07-13-2012, 04:00 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
never heard the words "hometown discount" thrown around like it's an expectation? Or how Penner should re-sign for $2 mil? or Stoll for that matter? come on... I have a bad memory, but even I read enough of that to remember how people throw out ridiculous low-ball numbers as if it were reasonable to have them re-sign at that price.

btw, you're probably not comprehending my point if you were taking my example literally. Good for you.
Well, my point is that no one has been that ridiculous. Just because a GM of an Eastern Conference team might be stupid enough to offer Doan $30M over 4 years doesn't mean that is his true value, as you suggested.

There is such a thing as overpaying, and that would be a gross overpayment.

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07-14-2012, 01:32 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
for those of you who think Doan is 35+, so we should only offer him a $3-4 mil / 1 year take-it-or-leave-it deal, an eastern conference team just offered a $30+ mil for 4 years. proof that the armchair GMs on this board have a real ear to the ground on market value...

https://twitter.com/Gambo620/status/223841139659259905
If that was true, then why hasn't he signed there yet?

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07-14-2012, 01:47 AM
  #654
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If that was true, then why hasn't he signed there yet?
Maybe he is that committed to staying the west coast that the offers from VAN, LA and SJ are close enough.

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07-15-2012, 08:51 PM
  #655
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I will believe someone offered Doan $10m per for four years when I see him sign the deal. He simply wont get more than $4/6ish m per year for whatever the length. If he does then that GM should be flogged and then fired on the spot.

Good player but not even close to that kind of money.

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07-15-2012, 09:13 PM
  #656
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That rumor is a whole load of B.S. No reputable reporter or hockey site has picked up on this. If it was true, you would've heard it on TSN or from Dreger or McKenzie or Sportsnet. Not one of them has backed this one up.

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07-15-2012, 10:15 PM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
never heard the words "hometown discount" thrown around like it's an expectation? Or how Penner should re-sign for $2 mil? or Stoll for that matter? come on... I have a bad memory, but even I read enough of that to remember how people throw out ridiculous low-ball numbers as if it were reasonable to have them re-sign at that price.

btw, you're probably not comprehending my point if you were taking my example literally. Good for you.
There are two different times for gauging salaries the last six months: before the new cap number was announced and after. Before, you could see a player like Stoll or Penner be paid that little because cap space was so tight at that moment and the Kings hadn't won anything yet. we didn't know if the cap would go down or up...and i think few laypeople knew it was going to go up by a lot.

After it was announced was close to after the Kings won it all and both gave significant cause to pay both players more.

Of course right now is after when almost every team is now under the cap, so some ridiculous offers have been thrown around. Everyone has money so everything turns into a bidding war...now.

Plus the new Parise contact sets a new precedent for winger contracts.

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07-15-2012, 11:39 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
That rumor is a whole load of B.S. No reputable reporter or hockey site has picked up on this. If it was true, you would've heard it on TSN or from Dreger or McKenzie or Sportsnet. Not one of them has backed this one up.
I don't know, looks like a couple of legitimate sources to me:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...nference-team/

Quote:
An Eastern Conference team has presented Coyotes captain Shane Doan with a four-year, $30 million-plus contract offer, John Gambadoro of Sports 620 KTAR Phoenix is reporting by way of an NHL source.


Gambadoro is the same guy who first reported Steve Nash had been traded to the Lakers, if you’re wondering about legitimacy.
And then there is this:

Quote:
Hockey Buzz Eklund ‏@Eklund Ok..The team I believe is Montreal. I know for fact they made an overture and Doan respectfully declined…but Habs looking at another star..
Say what you want about the sources, but I don't think you can just dismiss it as a B.S. rumor...there's got to be some legs to it.

But the offer is out of sight. Doesn't make economic sense, really.

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Old
07-15-2012, 11:41 PM
  #659
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You provided links to people commenting on the B.S. rumor that was posted. As I stated before, none of the reliable reporters or hockey news sites have picked up on it, hence my claims of the rumor being B.S. still stands.

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07-16-2012, 01:36 AM
  #660
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I think that Eastern Conference team is Winnipeg. Makes too much sense.

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:29 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I think that Eastern Conference team is Winnipeg. Makes too much sense.
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think they would pay, according to the above report 4yrs/$30 million plus for him. Remember, he only spent one year with the Jets before the franchise moved to PHX. People seem to think he is so tied to Winnipeg but he had only the one season there.

I would suspect a team like Philly or the Rangers would throw out an offer like that for Doan. Don't know how/if the cap numbers would work for those teams but I would say they are more likely a suitor for Doan.

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Old
07-16-2012, 10:27 AM
  #662
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I dont think that anyone is disputing the legitimacy of there being a number of teams interested in Doan and the teams mentioned in the rumors being among them.

What is way out of whack and totally without merit is the dollar amount. Doan simply doesn't come close to a four year thirty mil deal. The guy is good and brings allot to the table but not that much.

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Old
07-16-2012, 10:31 AM
  #663
Jason Lewis
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If Doan is indeed asking for that much it would be the largest dollar amount contract he would have in his career.


I don't even think his agent would be that stupid

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Old
07-16-2012, 10:42 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by kovacro View Post
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think they would pay, according to the above report 4yrs/$30 million plus for him. Remember, he only spent one year with the Jets before the franchise moved to PHX. People seem to think he is so tied to Winnipeg but he had only the one season there.

I would suspect a team like Philly or the Rangers would throw out an offer like that for Doan. Don't know how/if the cap numbers would work for those teams but I would say they are more likely a suitor for Doan.
I think it'd rather be Winnipeg from a cap stand point, they at least have the cap space to not completely wreck their cap if he retires/gets injured a year or two in... The Rangers and Flyers just don't have that flexibility to take the chance.

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07-16-2012, 10:45 AM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I dont think that anyone is disputing the legitimacy of there being a number of teams interested in Doan and the teams mentioned in the rumors being among them.

What is way out of whack and totally without merit is the dollar amount. Doan simply doesn't come close to a four year thirty mil deal. The guy is good and brings allot to the table but not that much.
I think to a team like Winnipeg he would be worth that kind of money though, granted it's a young team in need of an identity and leader. Doan brings all of those things with him and I could see a team like that taking a chance with him by throwing dollars his way to win his services knowing that he'll have to take less to play for a contender.

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07-16-2012, 10:49 AM
  #666
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
I think to a team like Winnipeg he would be worth that kind of money though, granted it's a young team in need of an identity and leader. Doan brings all of those things with him and I could see a team like that taking a chance with him by throwing dollars his way to win his services knowing that he'll have to take less to play for a contender.
I don't see it but I have been wrong before on these things. Giving a player like Doan over $7m per season at 35 would be a first and imo a mistake. It's just too much money for what he brings to the table but weirder things have happened.

I do agree that wpg would be the most ideal fit for Doan and can see them offering the most next to Pho. Pho should pay him the most, his leaving the dirt dogs would definitely be a bad sign for the players and the team to me.

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Old
07-16-2012, 11:11 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I don't see it but I have been wrong before on these things. Giving a player like Doan over $7m per season at 35 would be a first and imo a mistake. It's just too much money for what he brings to the table but weirder things have happened.

I do agree that wpg would be the most ideal fit for Doan and can see them offering the most next to Pho. Pho should pay him the most, his leaving the dirt dogs would definitely be a bad sign for the players and the team to me.
I think this team moves to Quebec in the next 2 years regardless of what happens.

They will have their new arena done by 2014-2015 season, and they have an older and smaller arena that seats a similar amount to MTS centre in Winnipeg.

If you are the NHL would you rather be fighting constantly to put 12,000 ***** in the seats in Scottsdale, or not worry about it and plant 15,000 for a season, and then likely 19,000 from here to eternity in Quebec?

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Old
07-16-2012, 11:24 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I think this team moves to Quebec in the next 2 years regardless of what happens.

They will have their new arena done by 2014-2015 season, and they have an older and smaller arena that seats a similar amount to MTS centre in Winnipeg.

If you are the NHL would you rather be fighting constantly to put 12,000 ***** in the seats in Scottsdale, or not worry about it and plant 15,000 for a season, and then likely 19,000 from here to eternity in Quebec?
I think you are right about the move but I have been saying so for the past 3 years. I mentioned it once and got a reprimand on these very boards. There will be a return of the Nordis thank God. I will have my 2nd favorite team back. It will take time to get over the fact that they were dirt dogs but I will get over it eventually.

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Old
07-16-2012, 11:47 AM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I don't see it but I have been wrong before on these things. Giving a player like Doan over $7m per season at 35 would be a first and imo a mistake. It's just too much money for what he brings to the table but weirder things have happened.

I do agree that wpg would be the most ideal fit for Doan and can see them offering the most next to Pho. Pho should pay him the most, his leaving the dirt dogs would definitely be a bad sign for the players and the team to me.
Pronger? Yeah, it'd be a risk but that's why I think Winnipeg could be one of the few teams to take that risk. The deal also wouldn't have the years at the end of it tacked on to reduce the hit like Prongers but throwing money at someone on a 35+ deal isn't unheard of.

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07-16-2012, 11:56 AM
  #670
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Pronger? Yeah, it'd be a risk but that's why I think Winnipeg could be one of the few teams to take that risk. The deal also wouldn't have the years at the end of it tacked on to reduce the hit like Prongers but throwing money at someone on a 35+ deal isn't unheard of.
I see Pronger as a completely different caliber of player who's positional value is equal to his additional skills but fair enough I suppose for comparison.

Is it unheard of? No I guess not but I would counter with the fact that there aren't but a couple of teams willing to overpay for his (SD) services driving the overall price down.

WPG or PHO are really the only two teams who look like they should be willing to overpay for Doan for two very good fit reasons. To me that drives the price down but like I said, weirder things have happened.

Another thing on the Pronger reference, I bet if you asked the Flyers today if they think that they are getting good value for Pronger's contract that they would tell you that they aren't and ad in a few expletives to boot.

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07-16-2012, 11:57 AM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I think this team moves to Quebec in the next 2 years regardless of what happens.

They will have their new arena done by 2014-2015 season, and they have an older and smaller arena that seats a similar amount to MTS centre in Winnipeg.

If you are the NHL would you rather be fighting constantly to put 12,000 ***** in the seats in Scottsdale, or not worry about it and plant 15,000 for a season, and then likely 19,000 from here to eternity in Quebec?
Very good points.

And it makes one wonder...why push Phoenix if they don't want hockey? I don't know what the capacity is at Jobing.com arena, but if you are averaging 13,000 fans per game then you are looking at at least 4,000 to 5,000 empty seats every game.

For 20 years?

I don't know why anyone would want to buy the team to keep it there...by the way, my personal preference is that they stay in Phoenix, as travel for the Kings is kept to a minimum.

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07-16-2012, 12:09 PM
  #672
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Very good points.

And it makes one wonder...why push Phoenix if they don't want hockey? I don't know what the capacity is at Jobing.com arena, but if you are averaging 13,000 fans per game then you are looking at at least 4,000 to 5,000 empty seats every game.

For 20 years?

I don't know why anyone would want to buy the team to keep it there...by the way, my personal preference is that they stay in Phoenix, as travel for the Kings is kept to a minimum.
I don't know that Phoenix doesn't want hockey. As far as the NHL pushing to keep it there it wouldn't surprise me if it had something to do with the NHL's deal with NBC. The Phoenix area is one of the larger markets in the U.S., if the Coyotes move to Quebec the NHL no longer has a team in one of the bigger markets in the U.S. to offer NBC.

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07-16-2012, 12:38 PM
  #673
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Very good points.

And it makes one wonder...why push Phoenix if they don't want hockey? I don't know what the capacity is at Jobing.com arena, but if you are averaging 13,000 fans per game then you are looking at at least 4,000 to 5,000 empty seats every game.

For 20 years?

I don't know why anyone would want to buy the team to keep it there...by the way, my personal preference is that they stay in Phoenix, as travel for the Kings is kept to a minimum.
If you looking at the attendance numbers they had remained steady until the team was being threatened to move. They had around 15k a game.

And maybe you don't remember the mid 80s when we were only getting 12-13k a game. And tickets were almost being given away to fill those seats. How would you have felt if the team up and moved due to lack of support? And look at where we are now.

The easy answer is to move the team but that risks losing many fans to the game. And the one that seems to have the most support around these forums, especially from our friends north of the border. But moving the team really does nothing to grow the game and in reality hurts the game. I think it is good that Jamison has said he wants to keep the team there for 5 years to see if they can turn it around. I just hope that is long enough and fans don't just think they are going to move anyway.

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Old
07-16-2012, 02:42 PM
  #674
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
WPG or PHO are really the only two teams who look like they should be willing to overpay for Doan for two very good fit reasons. To me that drives the price down but like I said, weirder things have happened.

Another thing on the Pronger reference, I bet if you asked the Flyers today if they think that they are getting good value for Pronger's contract that they would tell you that they aren't and ad in a few expletives to boot.
These two points I agree with entirely. THe Pronger contract looks terrible as it stands right now and Philly is possibly a better team chemistry wise with him out of the lineup. You're also right that it should drive the price down on Doan, but to me it comes down to this; does Doan want big money for multiple years, or does he want to win a Cup? If the answer is the first then I'd almost say he ends up in Winnipeg, NYI (throwing them in as another team in a similiar state to WPG only) or back in Phoenix. If the answer is the second option then he's gotta be looking at a team like LA, NYR, SJS, Philly or another that is a great team without him, and even better with him. Of course he'd have to take less money for it to work out on one of those.

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07-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #675
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Dwight King re-signed, two year deal.

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