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Free Agency & General Offseason Discussion Thread: Part II

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07-09-2012, 12:06 PM
  #801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
I find it amusing that after 7 years with the Caps (and constantly re-signing him when there was sure to be many suitors given his production) they're just figuring this stuff out now, weird. You'd think if nobody liked him, and he was the 'ultimate coach killer' they could have taken care of that problem many times over.
You don't give up on a kid with his skill at a young age. You try and develop him and teach him to play the way you want him to play, but at a certain point it becomes evident that the words are just falling on deaf ears and it's time for a change. Both sides need the separation.

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07-09-2012, 12:07 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
I find it amusing that after 7 years with the Caps (and constantly re-signing him when there was sure to be many suitors given his production) they're just figuring this stuff out now, weird. You'd think if nobody liked him, and he was the 'ultimate coach killer' they could have taken care of that problem many times over.
Its very easy to let these kind of things slide when you have been a perennial cup contender year in and year out and you are accustomed to winning

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07-09-2012, 12:13 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
Its very easy to let these kind of things slide when you have been a perennial cup contender year in and year out and you are accustomed to winning
When were they ever a cup contender though? They've never made it past the 2nd round. It just seems weird to me that now that all the wheels are falling off and they're not as successful all the blame is pretty much being put on Semin. I've barely heard anything about Ovechkin and the rest of the gang like Green and Vokoun (though their goaltending woes are well documented.)

I still feel like a lot of it is a deflection of blame and that he's a bit of a scapegoat. I'm sure that he has issues, like most players, but most of them are so overblown and peoples' willingness to jump on any Russian makes it even worse.

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07-09-2012, 12:13 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
Its very easy to let these kind of things slide when you have been a perennial cup contender year in and year out and you are accustomed to winning
The exact opposite could also be said to be true. If Semin was dragging his team down when they were so close, not giving him a 6.7 million dollar contract and letting him go should of been the easiest thing in the world.

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07-09-2012, 12:14 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
When were they ever a cup contender though? They've never made it past the 2nd round. It just seems weird to me that now that all the wheels are falling off and they're not as successful all the blame is pretty much being put on Semin. I've barely heard anything about Ovechkin and the rest of the gang like Green and Vokoun (though their goaltending woes are well documented.)

I still feel like a lot of it is a deflection of blame and that he's a bit of a scapegoat. I'm sure that he has issues, like most players, but most of them are so overblown and peoples' willingness to jump on any Russian makes it even worse.
Are you joking? Ovechkin was RIPPED on the ENTIRE season this year. Far more then Semin until Semin pulled a Houdini in the playoffs.

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07-09-2012, 12:18 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
Are you joking? Ovechkin was RIPPED on the ENTIRE season this year. Far more then Semin until Semin pulled a Houdini in the playoffs.
I certainly didn't notice it being even close to what Semin is getting. Everyone was remarking on him not being as good of a player anymore, and that he'll likely never reach the heights he had earlier in his career...but I don't remember him being ripped on very often in the media.

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07-09-2012, 12:19 PM
  #807
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Maybe someone with a bit of spare time can post a transcript of that part of the segment with Simpson. I thought it was really interesting. I like Simpson, he's very blunt about certain things and doesn't sugar-coat his opinions. He does have a tendency to keep re-hashing the same things over and over though (but a lot of that has to do with the TGOR guys always asking the same questions).

In any case, it's another opinion in a war of opinions. I see a lot of apologists when it comes to Semin, but I don't see a lot of them with Simpson's credibility. Matt Bradley was easy enough to dismiss, but not so with Simpson.

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07-09-2012, 12:23 PM
  #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
I certainly didn't notice it being even close to what Semin is getting. Everyone was remarking on him not being as good of a player anymore, and that he'll likely never reach the heights he had earlier in his career...but I don't remember him being ripped on very often in the media.
Then you didn't pay that close of attention this year.

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07-09-2012, 12:25 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
Then you didn't pay that close of attention this year.
He hears what he wants to hear, and dismisses what is contrary to his pre-formed opinions.

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07-09-2012, 12:30 PM
  #810
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I just think there is a difference between being moody and being a cancer. I don't think the 'team ruining' has ever been established.

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07-09-2012, 12:31 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
It says that Pittsburgh values him enough to make him a serious offer. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't mean he'd be a good fit on the Sens.
Ok, fair enough but why isnt he a good fit on the sens? The only arguments I have seen on here so far is that he has a questionable work ethic. I think what CJam is trying to say is that why isnt that an issue for a championship level team like the Penguins and not on a team like the Senators?

As stated in earlier posts I clearly am a fan of bringing him in if the price is right and the term isnt outrageous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilfverBullet View Post
Pittsburgh = Powerful/dominant team that is going to contend for the Stanley Cup again with an elite Russian center that I'm sure would get along fine with Semin.

Ottawa = Young team that may or may not make the playoffs and is by no means contending for the Stanley Cup.

As you can see, they're basically the same team!
Is the point not to compete for the Stanley Cup? Not sure if you noticed but outside of Karlsson every elite player on this team is 28 or older. Yes they have some good young players but they arent proven. Its not like Semin is 35 like Kovalev was he is 28 years old.

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07-09-2012, 12:34 PM
  #812
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Ok, fair enough but why isnt he a good fit on the sens? The only arguments I have seen on here so far is that he has a questionable work ethic. I think what CJam is trying to say is that why isnt that an issue for a championship level team like the Penguins and not on a team like the Senators?

As stated in earlier posts I clearly am a fan of bringing him in if the price is right and the term isnt outrageous.
Put simply, different teams have different locker room cultures. Maclean's been promoting a very tight-knit "family" of players. Maybe Pittsburgh can afford to be more individualistic, which is fine for them. If the comments about his attitude are true though, it could very well disrupt the team's chemistry.

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07-09-2012, 12:36 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
He hears what he wants to hear, and dismisses what is contrary to his pre-formed opinions.
When did I dismiss anything and what is my 'pre-formed' opinion? Could some evidence of Ovechkin being 'RIPPED' on 'ALL YEAR' be provided please? I said I didn't remember hearing or seeing it nearly as bad as what Semin is getting now. So inform me.

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07-09-2012, 12:37 PM
  #814
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I just think there is a difference between being moody and being a cancer. I don't think the 'team ruining' has ever been established.
I'm not arguing that it has, but I still don't think he's a fit with the way this team has been built.

We spent years getting out from under this "individuals playing a team game" cloud. We finally had a team last year, for the first time since maybe the SCF year. That's a fragile thing, and I'd love to see it keep going.

Nobody's questioning this guy's obvious talent, but I think there are enough red flags surrounding his attitude and commitment that we should take a pass. I'd rather score less pretty goals and keep seeing what I saw last year: players who play for each other, prospects given a chance to develop and shine.

It's not like we're desperate for goal scoring.

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07-09-2012, 12:39 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
When did I dismiss anything and what is my 'pre-formed' opinion? Could some evidence of Ovechkin being 'RIPPED' on 'ALL YEAR' be provided please? I said I didn't remember hearing or seeing it nearly as bad as what Semin is getting now. So inform me.
This discussion is about Alexander Semin, why do you persist on bringing Ovechkin into it? He's not a free agent or trade target, last I checked.

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07-09-2012, 12:40 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
Put simply, different teams have different locker room cultures. Maclean's been promoting a very tight-knit "family" of players. Maybe Pittsburgh can afford to be more individualistic, which is fine for them. If the comments about his attitude are true though, it could very well disrupt the team's chemistry.
...and if the comments about his attitude are not true? Most videos I've seen of him he is smiling, joking around and laughing up until this year when everything went to **** in Washington. Then again I'm not at practice or in the locker room with these guys so I don't know. All I know is that we need a top 6 forward, and we're under the cap floor -- he presents easily the most skilled option at a top 6 forward, he won't cost us any assets and he'd put us over the cap floor.

This is all likely moot though as I haven't heard anything about us offering him a contract, and he's likely looking to play for a team that is closer to cup contention like Pittsburgh.

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07-09-2012, 12:41 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
This discussion is about Alexander Semin, why do you persist on bringing Ovechkin into it? He's not a free agent or trade target, last I checked.
It's pretty clear as to why I brought up Ovechkin -- you can just read my post and figure that out for yourself. What was the point in making a post like yours which brings absolutely nothing to the discussion and has literally no basis? Why do you persist in making statements with no merit? Last I checked they weren't pertinent to any discussion.

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07-09-2012, 12:43 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
...and if the comments about his attitude are not true? Most videos I've seen of him he is smiling, joking around and laughing up until this year when everything went to **** in Washington. Then again I'm not at practice or in the locker room with these guys so I don't know. All I know is that we need a top 6 forward, and we're under the cap floor -- he presents easily the most skilled option at a top 6 forward, he won't cost us any assets and he'd put us over the cap floor.

This is all likely moot though as I haven't heard anything about us offering him a contract, and he's likely looking to play for a team that is closer to cup contention like Pittsburgh.
All due respect, CJam, but I'll take the word of an ex-teammate and a former Capitals executive before I take the word of an anonymous poster on a message board. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

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07-09-2012, 12:45 PM
  #819
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It's pretty clear as to why I brought up Ovechkin -- you can just read my post and figure that out for yourself. What was the point in making a post like yours which brings absolutely nothing to the discussion and has literally no basis? Why do you persist in making statements with no merit? Last I checked they weren't pertinent to any discussion.
What, you mean the post talking about Shawn Simpson's opinion of Semin? That's the post that has no basis and brings nothing to the discussion?

But wait, you've seen videos online... Alright then, I'll dismiss the opinion of a guy who spent years as director of hockey operations for the team that drafted Semin.

We should send the Team an email, so they can issue a correction to Simpson's segment. After all, CJam here has seen videos.

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07-09-2012, 12:45 PM
  #820
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This is the fun part where they start arguing about the argument.

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07-09-2012, 12:48 PM
  #821
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Where there is smoke there is usually fire. The question here is whether this fire burns you alive or merely warms the house a tad.

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07-09-2012, 12:55 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
Put simply, different teams have different locker room cultures. Maclean's been promoting a very tight-knit "family" of players. Maybe Pittsburgh can afford to be more individualistic, which is fine for them. If the comments about his attitude are true though, it could very well disrupt the team's chemistry.
Fair enough, however I believe that is the goal of every hockey club that operates at a decently high level. I think you make a good point team chemistry definitely helped the sens overachieve last season despite the lack of talent across the board.

Addressing talent and getting to the cap floor are two of the teams biggest deficiencies and he does address two of those needs in a big way. However you may be right at the cost of disrupting an overachieving room it may not be worth it.

He also may just want to be the go to winger on his team and wasnt treated as so, getting out from Ovechkin's spotlight could also do wonders for his attitude. Sometimes a change of scenery can change a player completely. Especially a guy that has his talent that has been in one organization his entire career.

I dont think any of us really know if he would be a good fit in the room or not its very situational.

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07-09-2012, 12:56 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
When did I dismiss anything and what is my 'pre-formed' opinion? Could some evidence of Ovechkin being 'RIPPED' on 'ALL YEAR' be provided please? I said I didn't remember hearing or seeing it nearly as bad as what Semin is getting now. So inform me.

The fact that you are even comparing Semin to Ovechkin is idiotic. There's a reason why Semin is flamed more and if you can't see why, then there really is no helping you.

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07-09-2012, 12:58 PM
  #824
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All due respect, CJam, but I'll take the word of an ex-teammate and a former Capitals executive before I take the word of an anonymous poster on a message board. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
Like with Turris?

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07-09-2012, 12:59 PM
  #825
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Like with Turris?
Different animal entirely. The rumblings around Turris weren't that he was malcontent and disliked in the room, but rather that he just wanted out of Phoenix.

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