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Free Agency & General Offseason Discussion Thread: Part II

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Old
07-09-2012, 12:00 PM
  #826
Cujomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
All due respect, CJam, but I'll take the word of an ex-teammate and a former Capitals executive before I take the word of an anonymous poster on a message board. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
I can't speak to his locker-room or practice presence, and I've never said so. However, I am going to doubt stuff like that when I see an on-ice product that doesn't agree with some of the comments. There have been a few players in the NHL that people have heard nothing but bad things about, and then they end up on the right team and perform well. Perception is easily influenced and I just choose to question what I hear and what I see as opposed to just accepting what I am being told.

So anyway, like I said, I don't know what kind of player he would be in Ottawa in terms of his relationship with other players...but I do know that he produces and he tries hard on the ice most of the time. That's why I'd like Ottawa to get him -- he fills a lot of needs and there are conflicting reports about what he's like. I guess it just comes down to what you believe.

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07-09-2012, 12:02 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
Different animal entirely. The rumblings around Turris weren't that he was malcontent and disliked in the room, but rather that he just wanted out of Phoenix.
...and that he handled himself in a childish, selfish and anti-team manner. Oh, and that he was a mommies boy and was getting hyped up by his family and thus had a huge ego.

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07-09-2012, 12:03 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
Fair enough, however I believe that is the goal of every hockey club that operates at a decently high level. I think you make a good point team chemistry definitely helped the sens overachieve last season despite the lack of talent across the board.

Addressing talent and getting to the cap floor are two of the teams biggest deficiencies and he does address two of those needs in a big way. However you may be right at the cost of disrupting an overachieving room it may not be worth it.

He also may just want to be the go to winger on his team and wasnt treated as so, getting out from Ovechkin's spotlight could also do wonders for his attitude. Sometimes a change of scenery can change a player completely. Especially a guy that has his talent that has been in one organization his entire career.

I dont think any of us really know if he would be a good fit in the room or not its very situational.
Good post.

You're right that none of us here really know, but there are enough red flags that I would be extremely wary of attempting the experiment. It could work out, it could be disastrous. It seems like the safe status quo, while boring, is the smartest course of action. It does seem like most teams agree. To re-use the same analogy that was used above, there's simply too much smoke in this case.

There's also of course the Melnyk factor. Anybody remember his rant about how "any idiot can go and spend to the cap? Does that sound like an owner willing to dish out big bucks to a potential malcontent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melnyk
You can spend to the cap — it’s very easy. Any idiot can do that. The really elite teams are the ones that can (put in) elite management and elite coaching, that can put a competitive team on the ice year-after-year, and not have to buy that team.

They can do it through internal growth. And that’s the sign of a really elite group. And that’s what we want to be.
http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/se...+%2F+Hockey%29

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07-09-2012, 12:04 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
Different animal entirely. The rumblings around Turris weren't that he was malcontent and disliked in the room, but rather that he just wanted out of Phoenix.
Dissagree, how do you know Semins malcontent and poor work ethic had to do with not liking the organization he was in like Turris? You don't know anything for fact, I have also never heard he was disliked just that players around him didnt like his work ethic. Probably because he was playing ahead of them just based on talent and production.

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07-09-2012, 12:07 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
...and that he handled himself in a childish, selfish and anti-team manner. Oh, and that he was a mommies boy and was getting hyped up by his family and thus had a huge ego.
He did. He obviously got some very bad advice, and handled it very poorly.

Obviously it looks like it's going to work out -- it's not guaranteed yet but it's looking good. There's no questioning however that this is something that will probably follow Turris around for a while, and rightfully so.

I think the biggest difference here was the relatively short term (2 years), his age (where he'd be more likely to defer to the vets on the team and not try to make too many waves) and probably most important of all: his low salary -- Melnyk's running a tight ship these days.

And it's not like most people here were happy about the trade. Most were pretty pissed off.

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Old
07-09-2012, 12:08 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
...and that he handled himself in a childish, selfish and anti-team manner. Oh, and that he was a mommies boy and was getting hyped up by his family and thus had a huge ego.
True. He unfairly handcuffed his team and didn't handle it professionally by any stretch of the imagination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert View Post
Dissagree, how do you know Semins malcontent and poor work ethic had to do with not liking the organization he was in like Turris? You don't know anything for fact, I have also never heard he was disliked just that players around him didnt like his work ethic. Probably because he was playing ahead of them just based on talent and production.
I don't. My point isn't that there are no parallels. It's that, for better or worse, Turris was classified as a hard-working kid who wanted out. Semin is being classified as a non-hard-working kid who wants out. I can only go based on what I know. I wouldn't dare speculate as to whether that's true or not -- I'll leave that to the pros.

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07-09-2012, 12:09 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
Semin is being classified as a non-hard-working kid who wants out.
It's weird because in the most recent interview I've seen of Semin he seems fairly jovial and he mentions wanting to stay in DC for another 10 years if possible as he's joking around about being old with the reporter. I've never heard of him wanting out of Washington. Mind you, that was before how badly this season went for that team.



Comes off as just a fairly quiet, introvert IMO.

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07-09-2012, 12:10 PM
  #833
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Dmitry Chesnokov‏@dchesnokov

As some asked re: the 3 year $30m reported offer to Semin from the KHL - false on both the term and the money.

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Old
07-09-2012, 12:11 PM
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
It's weird because in the most recent interview I've seen of Semin he seems fairly jovial and he mentions wanting to stay in DC for another 10 years if possible as he's joking around about being old with the reporter. I've never heard of him wanting out of Washington.



Comes off as just a fairly quiet, introvert IMO.
You're right, that's my mistake. I meant to say that the team apparently wants him out. Mea culpa.

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07-09-2012, 12:22 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
Good post.

You're right that none of us here really know, but there are enough red flags that I would be extremely wary of attempting the experiment. It could work out, it could be disastrous. It seems like the safe status quo, while boring, is the smartest course of action. It does seem like most teams agree. To re-use the same analogy that was used above, there's simply too much smoke in this case.

There's also of course the Melnyk factor. Anybody remember his rant about how "any idiot can go and spend to the cap? Does that sound like an owner willing to dish out big bucks to a potential malcontent?



http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/se...+%2F+Hockey%29
Thank you and you make really good points. I guess I am just a risk taker and given the style of the sens, Mcleans coaching style/experience with Russians in Detroit I think he is worth the risk. Especially given the sens cap situation and the other options available on the market.

Melnyk makes a good point but mixing the two management styles together isnt always a bad thing, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Detroit have all done it and it resulted in Stanley Cups. (I wonder if this comment by Melnyk has anything to do with Kovalev he seems to be very reactionary see “Anybody that says we should blow up this organization should get their own bomb and go blow themselves up,”. Haha

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07-09-2012, 01:06 PM
  #836
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Some fair points on why Semin is still available. Also, interesting to hear Mcguire trash a player, when does Mcguire EVER do that? He's usually slurpin every one of them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...5351--nhl.html

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07-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #837
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I think Melnyk would prefer keeping his money than signing a controversial UFA player, especially considering we already have enough one-way contracts and NHL-ready prospects up front to ice a 12 man group with a healthy scratch or two. That's not to say Melnyk's making the calls, just that I don't see ownership pressuring Murray to hasten the rebuild.

I know Murray's been looking to deal for a more established star, but I just am not sure he'd take the gamble on Semin.

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07-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Some fair points on why Semin is still available. Also, interesting to hear Mcguire trash a player, when does Mcguire EVER do that? He's usually slurpin every one of them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...5351--nhl.html
Wow, an uncharacteristically well-written article about Semin. That's a nice change.

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07-09-2012, 01:21 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
When were they ever a cup contender though? They've never made it past the 2nd round. It just seems weird to me that now that all the wheels are falling off and they're not as successful all the blame is pretty much being put on Semin. I've barely heard anything about Ovechkin and the rest of the gang like Green and Vokoun (though their goaltending woes are well documented.)

I still feel like a lot of it is a deflection of blame and that he's a bit of a scapegoat. I'm sure that he has issues, like most players, but most of them are so overblown and peoples' willingness to jump on any Russian makes it even worse.
Your kidding right? Before the seasons ever started the Caps were considered one of if not the favorite to win the Cup for several seasons.

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The exact opposite could also be said to be true. If Semin was dragging his team down when they were so close, not giving him a 6.7 million dollar contract and letting him go should of been the easiest thing in the world.
Could be, but they didn't. It's not as easy as you think to trade/release that caliber of player on your team when winning is so common for their organization. Why disrupt a "winning" culture?

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07-09-2012, 01:23 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Some fair points on why Semin is still available. Also, interesting to hear Mcguire trash a player, when does Mcguire EVER do that? He's usually slurpin every one of them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...5351--nhl.html
Well Semin did say Kane was better than Crosby that probably explains a tiny bit of Pierre's hatred.

It seems to me that McGuire just likes to jump on the band wagon, he was on the sens for a while then he just ripped on them then he was on Buffalo's then Pittsburghs. I cant stand him more then anything, the best part about it is he thinks everyone likes him when atleast from what I have heard from the players I know they dont respect him one iota.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6_kQfqYJy8

Turco haha. Does anyone remember when I think it was Tkachuk had a bounty out for whoever hits him with a puck in the bench?

Sorry for getting off topic, I dont think anyone here debates why Semin is still available but thats the reason he is in this discussion and why he isnt getting Parise money. There is clearly a risk, but I think its a risk worth taking you cant teach goals and you cant teach skill and it adds to the assets of the team.

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07-09-2012, 01:26 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
I think Melnyk would prefer keeping his money than signing a controversial UFA player, especially considering we already have enough one-way contracts and NHL-ready prospects up front to ice a 12 man group with a healthy scratch or two. That's not to say Melnyk's making the calls, just that I don't see ownership pressuring Murray to hasten the rebuild.

I know Murray's been looking to deal for a more established star, but I just am not sure he'd take the gamble on Semin.
Well they are going to have to do something to get to the cap floor, id prefer they do it without giving up assets or taking on a really bad contract.

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07-09-2012, 02:04 PM
  #842
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Sorry for getting off topic, I dont think anyone here debates why Semin is still available but thats the reason he is in this discussion and why he isnt getting Parise money. There is clearly a risk, but I think its a risk worth taking you cant teach goals and you cant teach skill and it adds to the assets of the team.
Semin is still available because he doesn't like the offers he's received. There's been a lot of speculated interest from NHL teams and KHL teams...but maybe he's getting lowballed right now because of all the media hubaloo or maybe his agent is a tool and messing things up. Who knows?

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07-09-2012, 02:09 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Semin is still available because he doesn't like the offers he's received. There's been a lot of speculated interest from NHL teams and KHL teams...but maybe he's getting lowballed right now because of all the media hubaloo or maybe his agent is a tool and messing things up. Who knows?
Mark Gandler is a tool and messing things up for his client?

No way, buster. That's just not possible. Give your head a shake for even suggesting such a thing.


















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07-09-2012, 02:43 PM
  #844
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Does the Heatstick lose his A and get demoted to the second powerplay in Minneapolis?

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07-09-2012, 02:48 PM
  #845
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Lets assume for a second that the capfloor is not lowered and the SENS need $5 million to hit the cap floor. Just assume it ok?

Would the SENS take a salary dump/reclemation project + a solid young prospect/1st round pick and trade back something not needed?

A good example is the Lombardi + Franson = I cant even remember trade lol. Lombardi is the dump and Franson has some value, more than the player the leafs dumped. Franson was playing top 4 d minutes in Nashville before being shipped out however was severely protected by Weber and Suter. He crashed and burned in Toronto but who doesnt in that uniform.

Who would you think is available and someone Murray would take? Douglas Murray perhaps.

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07-09-2012, 02:59 PM
  #846
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I woke up, came on HF, saw this thread and prayed to GOD that the Semin bull**** would be done with.

There is no God.

One thing that I've read the last 2 pages from CJam that just makes me laugh is how you persistently and constantly bring up that Semin looked happy in this video or that video. He was joking around here and there. Are you serious? So because you have watched some interviews or practices or God knows what and he doesn't SEEM to be a ********* when he's by himself is proof that this is all one big misunderstanding? It's baffling as to how anyone would want this guy on our team. It's like I've gone back to 2008 and we're talking about getting Kovalev.

Ovechkin has been ripped on much more than Semin has this past season. If you believe the contrary, you haven't been listening.

The Turris situation is Phoenix is entirely different from the Semin situation in Washington. Like HAWT said, Turris was not known to be or rumoured to be a guy in the locker room with such evident work ethic and attitude problems. Semin was given all the chances in the world to succeed with one of the most top heavy offenses in the league and has basically been given everything he's ever wanted. Kyle Turris was not given ice-time or an opportunity to do a damn thing and thus wanted out of the organization. Completely different animal.

We don't need Semin and I don't understand the reasoning behind a signing such as this. He doesn't play a consistent or hard working game at both ends of the rink and he's an extremely controversial, flashy, Russian forward. I think we've had enough problems with the above. No thanks.

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07-09-2012, 03:12 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Wow, an uncharacteristically well-written article about Semin. That's a nice change.
The interesting point that I find is the teams who are in on Ryan and Nash, supposedly Semin is just as talented as those guys and put up just as good stats, so why are those teams willing to give up roster pieces for those guys, when someone like Semin can be had without the loss of anyone from their roster?

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07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
  #848
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I woke up, came on HF, saw this thread and prayed to GOD that the Semin bull**** would be done with.

There is no God.

One thing that I've read the last 2 pages from CJam that just makes me laugh is how you persistently and constantly bring up that Semin looked happy in this video or that video. He was joking around here and there. Are you serious? So because you have watched some interviews or practices or God knows what and he doesn't SEEM to be a ********* when he's by himself is proof that this is all one big misunderstanding? It's baffling as to how anyone would want this guy on our team. It's like I've gone back to 2008 and we're talking about getting Kovalev.

Ovechkin has been ripped on much more than Semin has this past season. If you believe the contrary, you haven't been listening.

The Turris situation is Phoenix is entirely different from the Semin situation in Washington. Like HAWT said, Turris was not known to be or rumoured to be a guy in the locker room with such evident work ethic and attitude problems. Semin was given all the chances in the world to succeed with one of the most top heavy offenses in the league and has basically been given everything he's ever wanted. Kyle Turris was not given ice-time or an opportunity to do a damn thing and thus wanted out of the organization. Completely different animal.

We don't need Semin and I don't understand the reasoning behind a signing such as this. He doesn't play a consistent or hard working game at both ends of the rink and he's an extremely controversial, flashy, Russian forward. I think we've had enough problems with the above. No thanks.
Argh..... Not that you have to agree with everything that has been said but if you did read the thread maybe you could have addressed some of the arguments that were actually made towards the sens showing interest in Semin if the right deal came along. Or maybe suggested another way the sens get to the cap floor.

How you compare a 28 year old Semin in his prime to a 36 year old Kovalev is beyond me.

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07-09-2012, 03:43 PM
  #849
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If we sign semin I'll delete my account. Cross your fingers cjam

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07-09-2012, 03:48 PM
  #850
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Originally Posted by TheSilfverBullet View Post
I woke up, came on HF, saw this thread and prayed to GOD that the Semin bull**** would be done with.

There is no God.

One thing that I've read the last 2 pages from CJam that just makes me laugh is how you persistently and constantly bring up that Semin looked happy in this video or that video. He was joking around here and there. Are you serious? So because you have watched some interviews or practices or God knows what and he doesn't SEEM to be a ********* when he's by himself is proof that this is all one big misunderstanding? It's baffling as to how anyone would want this guy on our team. It's like I've gone back to 2008 and we're talking about getting Kovalev.
Where have I said that those things are proof of anything? Boudreau said there was no issue with Semin and he was the coach. Guys that have left the organization have said things afterwards. What I see with my eyes and what Boudreau say cause me to question all the bull**** flying around about this guy in the media as we all know how quickly those things can snowball and with the anti-Russian bias it's even more susceptible to it happening.

At no point have I ever said that he's not a locker room cancer, or that he's not a coach killer, or that all of his teammates don't like him. I only said it's worth questioning when you see something different than you are hearing and you have also had conflicting reports from other people that have worked with him.

So I don't know if you have an issue with God or with reading comprehension but I suggest instead of coming in an acting like an ass you rethink your approach.

Quote:
We don't need Semin and I don't understand the reasoning behind a signing such as this. He doesn't play a consistent or hard working game at both ends of the rink and he's an extremely controversial, flashy, Russian forward. I think we've had enough problems with the above. No thanks.
Thank you for showing your true colours at least. Yes, he's Russian. However, he has played consistently throughout his career -- he has consistently been one of the top forwards in +/-, PPG, and GPG over the last 5 years and has played well, for the most part, on both ends of the ice.

On top of this, whether or not you agree with his defensive aptitude, he fills organizational needs in a big way in that we need a top 6 winger to play with Spezza/Turris to bolster our offence as well as more money to reach the cap floor. What is hard to understand about signing him for those reasons?

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