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Shakespear: Whats so good about him?

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01-06-2005, 11:05 PM
  #51
Shane
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I like how most of the people denouncing Shakespeare are all under the age of eighteen.

When I was in highschool and I had to read A Midsummer's Night Dream, and Romeo and Juliet, I thought they were completely lame.

On the other hand though, when I got to read Hamlet, MacBeth, Julius Caesar, King Lear, and a hefty protion of his sonnets did I realize just how good Shakespeare really was.

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01-06-2005, 11:08 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Porn*
I loved King Lear!!!
Yeah, King Lear was my favourite as well.

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01-06-2005, 11:21 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
I like how most of the people denouncing Shakespeare are all under the age of eighteen.

When I was in highschool and I had to read A Midsummer's Night Dream, and Romeo and Juliet, I thought they were completely lame.

On the other hand though, when I got to read Hamlet, MacBeth, Julius Caesar, King Lear, and a hefty protion of his sonnets did I realize just how good Shakespeare really was.
There is an age limit? I am 23 but I guess that still counts as young for you. Still, the fact that I have read over 250 books just over the course of the past two years does make me think that my negative views towards Shakespeare at the very least worthy of note. I read for pleasure as well as for academic reasons and those books that I have had to read by Shakespeare are easily among those I care for the least, right beside two rather dry Archaeology textbooks.

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01-06-2005, 11:27 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Christ
There is an age limit? I am 23 but I guess that still counts as young for you. Still, the fact that I have read over 250 books just over the course of the past two years does make me think that my negative views towards Shakespeare at the very least worthy of note. I read for pleasure as well as for academic reasons and those books that I have had to read by Shakespeare are easily among those I care for the least, right beside two rather dry Archaeology textbooks.
Note the presence of the word "most" as opposed to the word "all" in my original statement.

Not that I blame you for glossing over it, with all the reading you've done, it's probably become second nature.

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01-07-2005, 01:35 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Christ
I know that Skakespeare was popular in his day, but like 17ster, I do not believe that his work has any relevance to modern English.
He coined many phrases which we still use. His plays have repeatedly been adapted to modern contexts, and very effectively.

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His work is outdated,
His themes are universal, which is why they can be reworked so easily.

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his story's
If you're going to tout your own extensive background in literature, then you probably shouldn't make such fundamental errors as this one.

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are not all that creative in comparison with other famous writers and his sentense structure is absurd,
"Sentense" structure? Are you freakin' kidding me? It's iambic pentameter, not conversational English.

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even in comparison with the works of other playrights from his time.
So who are these far less absurd, "playrights?" The old style (like that of Marlowe) was full of exaggerated and droning speeches, which was far less natural than Shakespeare's language ever was.

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If I was teaching an English course I would only use Shakespeare's work as an example of what not to do when writing.
It's pretty apparent you shouldn't under any circumstances be teaching English to anyone, considering that you made 4 grammatical / spelling errors in a mere two "sentenses."

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01-07-2005, 01:50 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
You shouldn't criticize things that are simply over your head.

Thank you.

Also, the man who said


"Brevity is the soul of wit."

and

"The object of art is to give life a shape."

and

"This above all; to thine own self be true."

and

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. "

should not have to endure the taunting of a pubescent boy, even post-mortem.


Last edited by Captain Conservative: 01-07-2005 at 02:01 AM.
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Old
01-07-2005, 02:34 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Captain Conservative

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. "
Great soliloquy. Great play. Great writer.

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Old
01-07-2005, 05:30 AM
  #58
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i would suggest that those who are putting down shakespearE (had to correct some people's spelling) are either too young to realize his genius or just plain don't like literature (and i don't mean comic books). shakespeare was a master of his time, yes his plays are often hard to read and even harder to understand, however there's planty of resourses out there that can help you translate his words into modern english so the reader can better understand what he was saying.

in 7th grade we read king lear, thankfully when my mother and i went to border's books we found an edition of king lear that had the translation. some passages of text had a superscript number after them and on the page across from it it had the numbers and a pretty good translation of what it meant. there were a lot of kids in the class who kept saying ''what's that mean, the teacher ended up just having me translate from my copy rather instead of explaining it herself.

everyone has their own opinions, but to say shakespeare and his works are crap is like saying gretzky in his prime was nothing more than a glorified 4th liner.

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01-07-2005, 10:40 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
Maybe I missed this question, but how in the world does a self-respecting Englishman mispell "Shakespeare"?
Me self-respecting :lol :lol

Dude i still go to secondary school which is like your high school i think. Anyway i couldn't care less about his name or his works right now. I've just litterally had an english exam comparing poems adn writing descripitively. I know nobody probably liked his works at my age but reaaly COMMON they suck. Yeah yeah i'll get to like as i mature but i don't see it happening. For a start our generation don't read that much nomore. I think Shakespeare is gonna slowly become a distant memmory.

Whoever said what are you like 4 because i haven't seen "Dude where is my car" add 1 years and you got it. When was it made?

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01-07-2005, 10:56 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Volante
Unparalleled crap.

Edit : before someone comes crying : hyperbole. I'm just pushing it the other way around. I think Shakespeare is to literature what Hitchcock is to cinema : a technically sound pretty ordinary creator that couldn't quite get out of pre-structured genres, just stretch them a bit.
Alright snob - then give me some examples of a more than ordinary creator who was able to get of pre-structured genres...

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01-07-2005, 11:01 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
I'm sure you guys have heard of Shakespear the god damn poet. What is so good about his works. I've had to read Macbeth and read and write an essay on Romeo and Juliet for school. I found the language crappy and dumb, the plots queer and weird and that it had no relevance today. I do not see why he is so popular and well renound. I mean i think i could do better. Its worse than poetry. And that sucks like Vicktor Kozlov does at fighting or Kobe Bryant does at being a role model or a good basketball player.
Here. This might help you out.

http://uninteresting.myby.co.uk/noeffort/romjul.htm

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01-07-2005, 12:33 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_servo
:lol :lol

Better than da original. The giant red cup? I'm voting for that as film of the year. Suddenly Shakespeare doesn't suck, well that version doesn't.

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01-07-2005, 12:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by J17ster
I'm sure you guys have heard of Shakespear the god damn poet.
Oddly enough, thats what it says on his tombstone.

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01-07-2005, 01:20 PM
  #64
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Shakespear is to litterature what Bach is to music. You either like him alot or hate him but denying his genius isnt a very smart thing to do. All you have to do is compare him with the other works of his time and you'll understand how superior those guys were. Ever read the very popular Faust from Goethe, it was written a lot of years later yet you can easily compare Shakespeares works, same with Molière. Look at "Die Leiden des jungen Werther", that is an overrated work, not Hamlet, Hamlet has is a masterpiece form and writing wise and it has a very philosophical approach, which you wouldnt expect from a theatre piece at that time.

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01-07-2005, 01:34 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Shakespear is to litterature what Bach is to music. You either like him alot or hate him but denying his genius isnt a very smart thing to do. All you have to do is compare him with the other works of his time and you'll understand how superior those guys were. Ever read the very popular Faust from Goethe, it was written a lot of years later yet you can easily compare Shakespeares works, same with Molière. Look at "Die Leiden des jungen Werther", that is an overrated work, not Hamlet, Hamlet has is a masterpiece form and writing wise and it has a very philosophical approach, which you wouldnt expect from a theatre piece at that time.
Everyone should definitely heed any insight and opinion that you may have on art and literature.

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01-07-2005, 01:37 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by WrightOn
Everyone should definitely heed any insight and opinion that you may have on art and literature.

I'm lost, is that sarcasm?

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01-07-2005, 01:44 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster

Thanks. I'm extremely happy though that his works aren't a major part of the course. Unless i go to do English at College, screw that then i don't have to do much on him. Instead i gotta learn and rememeber 60 snoozing poems and only one will come up in my exam.
Why is Romeo and Juliet called the best love story of all time? It is very far fetched. I did my essay and got a B with even understanding the stroy.
No offense to your educator, but it sounds like (s)he doesn't appear to be presenting the material in a way that would allow many people to enjoy it.The whole memorize and recite thing is damn near pointless, imo, and doesn't lend itself to an appreciation or true understanding of the work.

If you're not real big on reading the plays, go rent some movies dealing with Shakespeare's work and give it a shot that way. I'd recommend Hamlet (2000, Ethan Hawke stars), Looking for Richard (Al Pacino) and Henry V (1989, Branagh). The first is a modern adaptation, the second is sort of a "behind the scenes" look at Pacino and Co. preparing to do the play Richard III and the last is a more traditional take on doing Shakespeare.

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01-07-2005, 01:47 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
No offense to your educator, but it sounds like (s)he doesn't appear to be presenting the material in a way that would allow many people to enjoy it.The whole memorize and recite thing is damn near pointless, imo, and doesn't lend itself to an appreciation or true understanding of the work.

If you're not real big on reading the plays, go rent some movies dealing with Shakespeare's work and give it a shot that way. I'd recommend Hamlet (2000, Ethan Hawke stars), Looking for Richard (Al Pacino) and Henry V (1989, Branagh). The first is a modern adaptation, the second is sort of a "behind the scenes" look at Pacino and Co. preparing to do the play Richard III and the last is a more traditional take on doing Shakespeare.
I've seen both versions of Romeo and juliet on film. The modern wasn't bad cos i could understand the language.
Our teacher is pretty good though she has had like massive issues recently so haven't seen much of her. She tells what we need to know and she managed to get a lot of good essays out of us as a group. Its the whole language thing plus i don't read which makes it real hard to enjoy. I mean whats "do you bite your thumb at me sir" all about.

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01-07-2005, 01:59 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
I'm lost, is that sarcasm?
No fun.

Uh, .....yeah...it's sarcasm.
Apply your points about comparing an artist to his contemporaries to your incredibly enlightening Beatles arguement.

Bologna.

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01-07-2005, 02:02 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
i would suggest that those who are putting down shakespearE (had to correct some people's spelling) are either too young to realize his genius or just plain don't like literature (and i don't mean comic books).
Again, I don't fit in stupid generalizations. I must be a special one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Alright snob - then give me some examples of a more than ordinary creator who was able to get of pre-structured genres...
Proust, Joyce, Kafka, Burroughs, Miller,... My personal favorite would be Robbe-Grillet.

You see, people like Shakespeare, Balzac, Molière, (and Hitchcock, and Griffith) did "great things" for their time (in the sense that they went further than what preceded them), but in the end, they just contributed to flatten their art. Well, that's my opinion.

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01-07-2005, 02:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by WrightOn
No fun.

Uh, .....yeah...it's sarcasm.
Apply your points about comparing an artist to his contemporaries to your incredibly enlightening Beatles arguement.

Bologna.
Oh you mean, I should compare the Beatles with Jazz and Classical musicians, in other words, real musicians, musicians that actually took the time to look at the form and work on their art instead of making random catchy tunes? Get a few music classes, you'll understand.

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01-07-2005, 02:04 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
Get a few music classes, you'll understand.
Strike three.

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01-07-2005, 02:24 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
I've seen both versions of Romeo and juliet on film. The modern wasn't bad cos i could understand the language.
Our teacher is pretty good though she has had like massive issues recently so haven't seen much of her. She tells what we need to know and she managed to get a lot of good essays out of us as a group. Its the whole language thing plus i don't read which makes it real hard to enjoy. I mean whats "do you bite your thumb at me sir" all about.
The bite your thumb thing is just an old way people insulted eachother. If I remember right, it's kinda like flipping someone the bird today. I'm sure the meaning is different, but the intent is the same.

I would definitely recommend finding Looking for Richard. It does an excellent job at breaking down the play and shakespeare. The language can be a big roadblock, but seeing it performed helps a lot. Experiment with other videos and what not, and just try to find a different way to come at it. This past semester I had to study the Inferno, and while I couldn't really get into the reading, the professor had an excellent video series from the BBC about it that just made it clear as day for me.

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01-07-2005, 02:27 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Winger98
The bite your thumb thing is just an old way people insulted eachother. If I remember right, it's kinda like flipping someone the bird today. I'm sure the meaning is different, but the intent is the same.

I would definitely recommend finding Looking for Richard. It does an excellent job at breaking down the play and shakespeare. The language can be a big roadblock, but seeing it performed helps a lot. Experiment with other videos and what not, and just try to find a different way to come at it. This past semester I had to study the Inferno, and while I couldn't really get into the reading, the professor had an excellent video series from the BBC about it that just made it clear as day for me.

There are also book versions that offer old english and its modern translation, it can help a heck of a lot.

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