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Can Bettman truly be that stupid?

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08-10-2012, 09:51 AM
  #1
Desert Panther
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Can Bettman truly be that stupid?

A lockout if there is no CBA by the expiry? Revenues are at an all-time high, the owners basically got everything they wanted in the last CBA. This is about the worst possible thing he could do since the NHLPA has already said that they would be willing to continue playing under the expired contract for as long as good-faith negotiations show progress.


http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/82...ates-cba-talks

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08-10-2012, 10:09 AM
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adam graves
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I don't have all the facts to know whose more greedy here, but I will simply say a px on both houses if they can't figure this out and if it ends up killing the sport so be it they get what they deserve.

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08-10-2012, 10:16 AM
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It puts pressure on the NHLPA.

Obviously it's not him by himself who decided that. I would think the (some)owners wanted him to do that.

Still time left. Not going to sweat it.

Lock out? Whatever, let the millionaires/billionaires kill this league

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08-10-2012, 10:58 AM
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I May Be Wrong
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It's always about the money, and it always will be.

That's all that really needs to be said here.

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08-10-2012, 11:11 AM
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Dr Beinfest
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Short answer -

No, I don't think either side can be that stupid. The sport is still getting off the ground from the last time it was knocked over.

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08-10-2012, 12:59 PM
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I'm really hoping that this thing gets solved in the next month. I can't forget the last lockout and how horrible it was not knowing when it would come back. The Panthers would be one of the worst teams affected by it when they're just on the verge of changing things around with the team and fanbase.

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08-10-2012, 04:07 PM
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Ghoste
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I guess when they come back they can say, ”If a team made the playoffs once in the last decade, they get docked one ping pong ball.”

-ghoste

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08-10-2012, 04:32 PM
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It's not just Bettman's decision, he just speaks for the owners. The owners are greedy, the players are greedy too. Unfortunately I expect a lockout for at least a couple months. The owners won last time so the players aren't going to budge this time, especially with Fehr at the helm. The owners though are trying to get rid of the ridiculous longterm cap-circumventing contracts though, so I do give them points for that.

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08-10-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
I don't have all the facts to know whose more greedy here, but I will simply say a px on both houses if they can't figure this out and if it ends up killing the sport so be it they get what they deserve.
I dunno dude, it wouldn't be what we deserve. 3rd lockout under Bettman? Unreal.

How could we possibly come up with representatives as fans and what we think we should pay all these AH's?

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08-10-2012, 04:58 PM
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What terrible Publicity if the nhl lockouts again. But I wont ever complain about Bettman. It concerns me when he is no longer nhl headmaster some canadian will take over that despises southern teams. Bettman does everything he can to support southern franchises such as our own (Exception being Atl).

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08-10-2012, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
Bettman does everything he can to support southern franchises such as our own (Exception being Atl).
That's a helluva exception. The idea is they support you until they don't. It's a business.

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08-10-2012, 06:13 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
What terrible Publicity if the nhl lockouts again. But I wont ever complain about Bettman. It concerns me when he is no longer nhl headmaster some canadian will take over that despises southern teams. Bettman does everything he can to support southern franchises such as our own (Exception being Atl).
I'm sure he did what he could with ATL. I've always been on the line with that guy. Sometimes I hate him, sometimes I feel bad about it!

This just sucks. For all of us. Are we not the schmucks that feel the extreme need to fill these guys' pockets?

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08-10-2012, 06:14 PM
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He'd be stupid to go into the season without a CBA... come playoff time with no CBA and the players are now at a point where all of their salary has been paid and the owners are about to hit their highest revenue point.

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08-10-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
What terrible Publicity if the nhl lockouts again. But I wont ever complain about Bettman. It concerns me when he is no longer nhl headmaster some canadian will take over that despises southern teams. Bettman does everything he can to support southern franchises such as our own (Exception being Atl).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Hole View Post
That's a helluva exception. The idea is they support you until they don't. It's a business.
There's nothing Bettman could have done for ATL. Tell me what he could have done? The NHL owns PHX, it's quite different.

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08-10-2012, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
There's nothing Bettman could have done for ATL. Tell me what he could have done? The NHL owns PHX, it's quite different.
I dont really blame though he is an easy target and scapegoat. The question is why didnt the nhl buy the thrashers the way they bought the coyotes. But its a moot point now.

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08-10-2012, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
I guess when they come back they can say, ”If a team made the playoffs once in the last decade, they get docked one ping pong ball.”

-ghoste

Well played.

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08-11-2012, 02:46 AM
  #17
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Well played.
Thanks rat. ...I'll just lose the rest of my faith in humanity if these guys can't come to an agreement before the deadline. I'm joking of course but kinda not, really. It would totally be a huge bummer especially since it seems we are finally, finally on the right track. Please make things happen gentlemen!

Sincerely,

-ghoste

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08-11-2012, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
I may not know everything (as perhaps most of us here don't) but what do revenues have to do with profits ?

A biz can have $1.00 in revenues and as much as .99 in profits or they can be losing an unlimited amount of money.

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08-11-2012, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
It's not just Bettman's decision, he just speaks for the owners. The owners are greedy, the players are greedy too. Unfortunately I expect a lockout for at least a couple months. The owners won last time so the players aren't going to budge this time, especially with Fehr at the helm. The owners though are trying to get rid of the ridiculous longterm cap-circumventing contracts though, so I do give them points for that.
Bettman is hired by and works for the 29 NHL owners. He represents them , their views and strategies going forward. One must assume that the owners know all that he and his team are saying and doing on their behalf. He can make recommendations to them but in the end the owners have a short list committee of owners that signs off or okays a deal because here's a religious revelation, it is their money and not his.

As a side note, if a long term CBA were to be signed (say 10 years) and the US economy recovers significantly during that period, the Cdn teams which for the most part currently support the league with the strong Cdn Dollar but should it weaken to any great extent with the exception of Mtl & Toronto, who is going to be the huge profit base to then to support the league.

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08-11-2012, 06:52 AM
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Desert Panther
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Originally Posted by HabFan4Ever View Post
I may not know everything (as perhaps most of us here don't) but what do revenues have to do with profits ?

A biz can have $1.00 in revenues and as much as .99 in profits or they can be losing an unlimited amount of money.
I get that, however since the salaries of players are the most significant piece in the other side of that equation, it is once again "save us from ourselves" as far as the owners are concerned.

Pretty hypocritical that Minnesota's owner complains about player salaries on one hand and then signs the 2 biggest contracts in this years' market.

The point is the owners got everything they wanted in the last deal and it took only a few short years for them to figure out how to screw that up.

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08-11-2012, 11:05 AM
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I get that, however since the salaries of players are the most significant piece in the other side of that equation, it is once again "save us from ourselves" as far as the owners are concerned.
Please explain as I don't understand where the connection is that you're making. The players have no real or significant expenses so their salaries (revenues) are their net bottom line (profits), whereas the owners have revenues minus expenses = + or - profits.

I guess what I'm asking is why do they talk about revenues when they maybe should be talking profit sharing but in order to or get to that stage the players would have to assume a percentage of the risk that the owners currently incur at the 100% level.

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Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post

Pretty hypocritical that Minnesota's owner complains about player salaries on one hand and then signs the 2 biggest contracts in this years' market.
Not sure if it's hypocritical or not for an owner to complain anymore than it is for a payer or his union to do so.

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The point is the owners got everything they wanted in the last deal and it took only a few short years for them to figure out how to screw that up.
Did they screw it up or did they figure out that they got a good deal the last go around and now want more or a revised deal ?

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08-11-2012, 11:50 AM
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Desert Panther
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Originally Posted by HabFan4Ever View Post
Please explain as I don't understand where the connection is that you're making. The players have no real or significant expenses so their salaries (revenues) are their net bottom line (profits), whereas the owners have revenues minus expenses = + or - profits.
I'm saying that the most significant piece (by far) of the owners' expenses are the payment of players' salaries. Nothing more. The reason they can complain about "profits" is because they are choosing to overspend on operating costs (e.g., salaries). It's a "save us from ourselves" scenario.


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Originally Posted by HabFan4Ever View Post
I guess what I'm asking is why do they talk about revenues when they maybe should be talking profit sharing but in order to or get to that stage the players would have to assume a percentage of the risk that the owners currently incur at the 100% level.
They should be talking more about revenue sharing, however by choosing to payout these bloated salaries (in what universe is Dennis Wideman worth $5.25MM, is Matt Carle worth $5.5MM, or is Alex Semin worth $7MM?) the owners are self-inflicting their own wounds and then crying foul.


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Originally Posted by HabFan4Ever View Post
Not sure if it's hypocritical or not for an owner to complain anymore than it is for a payer or his union to do so.
The hypocritical part of this is the same owner turns around after complaining and spends $196MM for 2 players. I liken this to Darrelle Revis' *****ing about how he's not being paid enough for his work 2 years after holding out and signing a new 4 year deal. He got everything he wanted and it wasn't enough.


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Originally Posted by HabFan4Ever View Post
Did they screw it up or did they figure out that they got a good deal the last go around and now want more or a revised deal ?
They screwed it up. Hence all the 10 and 15 year contracts with cap circumvention salary structures. Once again, it's a "save us from ourselves" mentality for the owners.

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08-11-2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post

They should be talking more about revenue sharing, however by choosing to payout these bloated salaries (in what universe is Dennis Wideman worth $5.25MM, is Matt Carle worth $5.5MM, or is Alex Semin worth $7MM?) the owners are self-inflicting their own wounds and then crying foul.
This is about revenue sharing, instead of rich teams giving more to revenue sharing, NHL wants players to do same.

JOL

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08-12-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
A lockout if there is no CBA by the expiry? Revenues are at an all-time high, the owners basically got everything they wanted in the last CBA. This is about the worst possible thing he could do since the NHLPA has already said that they would be willing to continue playing under the expired contract for as long as good-faith negotiations show progress.


http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/82...ates-cba-talks
You must not be familiar with Fehr ,,, When he was MLBPA president he made same claims only to lead the players on a mid season strike. If NHL were to go into next season without CBA and play then there is no doubt Fehr would do the same again

NHL owners will not let him do that to them ,,, They saw what he did with MLB

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08-12-2012, 06:22 PM
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You must not be familiar with Fehr ,,, When he was MLBPA president he made same claims only to lead the players on a mid season strike. If NHL were to go into next season without CBA and play then there is no doubt Fehr would do the same again

NHL owners will not let him do that to them ,,, They saw what he did with MLB
Have to agree with this. No way you let the season start without a new agreement with Fehr in charge. You get 3/4 of the way through the season and then the players decide to strike right before the playoffs would be way worse than a lockout.

If the season doesn't start on time can season ticket holders just say screw it give me my money back?

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