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Panthers Free Agency 2012! Part 2

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08-01-2012, 08:15 AM
  #826
Panteras
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Originally Posted by JP Mick View Post
Also the prospect or two we would have to give up. We are still in rebuild mode IMO, now is not the time to be trading any potentially valuable prospects away.
Indeed, I think we've done really well for ourselves in building a solid pool of prospects to break that balance for something that will not only burden us financially but for an area that we don't need help in specially since we just signed Clemmensen...

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08-01-2012, 08:34 AM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
In case people didnt see it, I'm now working at Cliff Viner's investment company. Anyway, I got a chance to meet & talk with him today. He said its pretty clear that other teams have gotten better and its uncertain whether we improved enough to match them. But he was pretty high on Mueller and thinks he's gonna be a great signing. He was talking about how he was a former top 10 pick and just 24 yrs old so sounds like the org is very high on what Mueller is gonna do this yr.

Also spoke with one of the other partners at the investment company and he said he got to sit in on a meeting with Viner and Tallon. Apparently there was a discussion regarding budget and what players they could get at different budget amounts. One name mentioned was Parise, obviously before signing with Minny, who apparently did have mutual interest. But it sounds like he was at the upper end of the budget situation and not sure that anything was actually offered. Also we talked about Luongo briefly and he didnt think that was even a possibility. I even mentioned how the reports were saying that Tallon got Viner's approval to add Luongo and he didnt seem to buy into that. This confirmed exactly what I knew was the truth, the Panthers are still going to be a budget conscious team and not going to be breaking the bank right now.
Which is why some think a casino deal would bring this budget conscious team to a more competitive level.

Parise would have been sweet.

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08-01-2012, 08:45 AM
  #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
Right on, thanks for the info.

-ghoste
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Originally Posted by gizmo12688 View Post
You are our new insider, lol. Good info.
Well I even forgot to mention some things but remembered them this morning so wanted to add...
  • They know there is some correlation on how much they're spending on players and the success on the ice. But didn't sound like they're ready to spend too much
  • They are really hoping that Club Red is going to sell well but seemed a little nervous about it.
  • They do want to get the price per ticket to increase so don't expect your prices to stay fixed. But that should be expected if they keep putting a winner on the ice, right?
I dont know that I'll necessarily be an insider with that much info. But the other partner at my firm (not a Panthers owner) said he has heard of moves before they were announced. So if I do hear of anything, I will obviously convey that to you guys.


Last edited by Coolburn: 08-01-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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08-01-2012, 09:16 AM
  #829
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Congrats on the job Coolburn and thanks for the info. Viner is no idiot, that's for sure. I think he's making the right moves to slowly build this team into a competitive and profitable business (people often forget that's what a sports team is, especially in the eyes of the owner).

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08-01-2012, 11:03 AM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
by taking 5+million a year for a looooooong time , which means that even though your short-term mentally is telling you that Luongo might be helpful this upcoming season and school Markstrom the season after, we would be paying a ludicrous contract for a back up after that...

I'm willing to take the short term mentality risk for a forward player where we actually need help, not for a goalie which was one of our bright spots last season...
I have short term mentality? Do you not read any of my posts?? Lol, I trust Tallon. If he thinks Luongo here is a wise move, I'll trust him. I certainly don't think a prospect will be moved if he is sent over, and I think comparable salary over a reasonable amount of time will be sent back. Some one tweeted, don't remember who, that our offer was Upshall, Matthias, and a 2nd. Pretty sure most of us could live with that.

Thought everyone saw enough at the deadline, over the past couple years, and his time at Chicago that Tallon will not veer off course and certainly won't move valuable pieces to hurry things along.

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08-01-2012, 11:06 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Well I even forgot to mention some things but remembered them this morning so wanted to add...
  • They know there is some correlation on how much they're spending on players and the success on the ice. But didn't sound like they're ready to spend too much
  • They are really hoping that Club Red is going to sell well but seemed a little nervous about it.
  • They do want to get the price per ticket to increase so don't expect your prices to stay fixed. But that should be expected if they keep putting a winner on the ice, right?
I dont know that I'll necessarily be an insider with that much info. But the other partner at my firm (not a Panthers owner) said he has heard of moves before they were announced. So if I do hear of anything, I will obviously convey that to you guys.
That Club Red is really going to be a hit or miss project. They are banking on the rich thinking it is some type of exclusive club, and I just do not see the incentive, considering the stage the team is in, the arena/team being in Sunrise, competition with arguably the biggest sporting attraction in the country (Heat), and a terrible economy. I can understand the concept, I just think it is terrible timing, they should have waited another year or two, when the team was probably a bit more competitive, playoff wise.

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08-01-2012, 12:08 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Well I even forgot to mention some things but remembered them this morning so wanted to add...
  • They know there is some correlation on how much they're spending on players and the success on the ice. But didn't sound like they're ready to spend too much
  • They are really hoping that Club Red is going to sell well but seemed a little nervous about it.
  • They do want to get the price per ticket to increase so don't expect your prices to stay fixed. But that should be expected if they keep putting a winner on the ice, right?
I dont know that I'll necessarily be an insider with that much info. But the other partner at my firm (not a Panthers owner) said he has heard of moves before they were announced. So if I do hear of anything, I will obviously convey that to you guys.
Yeah, congrats on job but suspect you won't be in it long if you are always leaking stuff to this forum.

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08-01-2012, 12:21 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
That Club Red is really going to be a hit or miss project. They are banking on the rich thinking it is some type of exclusive club, and I just do not see the incentive, considering the stage the team is in, the arena/team being in Sunrise, competition with arguably the biggest sporting attraction in the country (Heat), and a terrible economy. I can understand the concept, I just think it is terrible timing, they should have waited another year or two, when the team was probably a bit more competitive, playoff wise.
I wouldn't be surprised if "Club Red" was removed within five years from now due to no one being interested in paying $25,000+ for seats to watch the Florida Panthers. Just being honest.

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08-01-2012, 12:30 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I have short term mentality? Do you not read any of my posts?? Lol, I trust Tallon. If he thinks Luongo here is a wise move, I'll trust him. I certainly don't think a prospect will be moved if he is sent over, and I think comparable salary over a reasonable amount of time will be sent back. Some one tweeted, don't remember who, that our offer was Upshall, Matthias, and a 2nd. Pretty sure most of us could live with that.

Thought everyone saw enough at the deadline, over the past couple years, and his time at Chicago that Tallon will not veer off course and certainly won't move valuable pieces to hurry things along.
Do you hear yourself? You sound like a cult member or something lols "if dear leader Dale Tallon says its wise I don't question it".....really dude, that's your excuse...umm ok, well no, I don't think it's a wise move and yes it's a short term mentality because he'll be able to "help" us for a short term, while his presence will be felt for a while ...it doesn't matter if we send back players which will ultimately equal Luongo's cap hit because 1) they're younger and fill roles that Vancouver might need and 2) Vancouver won't have to deal with that cap hit for as long we'll endure Luongo's ....again, short term mentality


Last edited by Panteras: 08-01-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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08-01-2012, 01:17 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
Do you hear yourself? You sound like a cult member or something lols "if dear leader Dale Tallon says its wise I don't question it".....really dude, that's your excuse...umm ok, well no, I don't think it's a wise move and yes it's a short term mentality because he'll be able to "help" us for a short term, while his presence will be felt for a while ...it doesn't matter if we send back players which will ultimately equal Luongo's cap hit because 1) they're younger and fill roles that Vancouver might need and 2) Vancouver won't have to deal with that cap hit for as long we'll endure Luongo's ....again, short term mentality
Alot of us, Pant, trust Tallon. His track record is awesome, and his blueprint is working here. I dont think its irrational to believe in him and go with what he decides unless or untill he screws up consistently.

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08-01-2012, 01:22 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Well I even forgot to mention some things but remembered them this morning so wanted to add...
  • They know there is some correlation on how much they're spending on players and the success on the ice. But didn't sound like they're ready to spend too much
  • They are really hoping that Club Red is going to sell well but seemed a little nervous about it.
  • They do want to get the price per ticket to increase so don't expect your prices to stay fixed. But that should be expected if they keep putting a winner on the ice, right?
I dont know that I'll necessarily be an insider with that much info. But the other partner at my firm (not a Panthers owner) said he has heard of moves before they were announced. So if I do hear of anything, I will obviously convey that to you guys.
I see Cliff alot between periods and he is great to talk to.

That said there are some flaws in the above.

You cant start a "club red" before a seriously successful product is rolled out. This wa way premature, insulting good sth's etc. It will be sad to see all those empties on TVin prime spots, and will make the arena quieter. IMHO a huge mistake in timing.

I have no problem with a ticket increase if you give me a good product. There is a clear corelation to spending and if thy want me to spend more, so do they.

This was awesome of you to share thank you so much.

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08-01-2012, 01:40 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
That Club Red is really going to be a hit or miss project. They are banking on the rich thinking it is some type of exclusive club, and I just do not see the incentive, considering the stage the team is in, the arena/team being in Sunrise, competition with arguably the biggest sporting attraction in the country (Heat), and a terrible economy. I can understand the concept, I just think it is terrible timing, they should have waited another year or two, when the team was probably a bit more competitive, playoff wise.
Club Red would work perfectly in downtown toronto or manhattan but in suburbia sunrise? The BAC and The Panthers simply don't have the flash the way downtown Miami/Heat do. No matter how good we are I dont think that will change. That being said the demographic of our fanbase is one of the highest end in all of professional sports. Mostly white collar workers and families from Weston, Parkland, and PBC. These people although wealthy wont be shelling out 25k for a seat any time soon.

If im going to shell out that kind of money im going to buy my own private suite for a 10 year rental, and have it as a tax write off. Much better and much more private than some club.

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08-01-2012, 01:44 PM
  #838
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Club Red would work perfectly in downtown toronto or manhattan but in suburbia sunrise? The BAC and The Panthers simply don't have the flash the way downtown Miami/Heat do. No matter how good we are I dont think that will change. That being said the demographic of our fanbase is one of the highest end in all of professional sports. Mostly white collar workers and families from Weston, Parkland, and PBC. These people although wealthy wont be shelling out 25k for a seat any time soon.

If im going to shell out that kind of money im going to buy my own private suite for a 10 year rental, and have it as a tax write off. Much better and much more private than some club.
It's not really for fans. It's for businesses.

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08-01-2012, 01:50 PM
  #839
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It's not really for fans. It's for businesses.
How many are there to fill up 25k dollar seats? The ADT club was the same thing except actually in the realm of affordability.

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08-01-2012, 02:14 PM
  #840
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How many are there to fill up 25k dollar seats? The ADT club was the same thing except actually in the realm of affordability.
How many are there what?

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08-01-2012, 02:23 PM
  #841
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How many are there what?
Businesses/Business People

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08-01-2012, 02:34 PM
  #842
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Alot of us, Pant, trust Tallon. His track record is awesome, and his blueprint is working here. I dont think its irrational to believe in him and go with what he decides unless or untill he screws up consistently.
Agree with this. However, it makes for a lousy discussion if your argument is: I trust Tallon... I mean, what do you say back to that? "I don't"?


Last edited by Tuco: 08-01-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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08-01-2012, 03:28 PM
  #843
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Agree with this. However, it makes for a lousy discussion if your argument is: I trust Tallon... I mean, what do you say back to that? "I don't"?
So much this.

I like Tallon as much as the next guy but like I've said before, I still remember "In Dudley we Trust," and "In Keenan we Trust," and "In Martin we Trust."

Gets a little old, fellas, and it doesn't exactly make for good conversation. Someone said earlier today that it sounded cult-like. They were spot on. It's okay to disagree with the moves of your general manager sometimes, and just because someone disagrees with the GM doesn't make them any less of a fan than you, or pessimistic, or a hater, or whatnot.

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08-01-2012, 03:45 PM
  #844
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if tallon brings in luongo at this stage in our development i will have serious doubts about his competency!!!!!!

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08-01-2012, 03:46 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Congrats on the job Coolburn and thanks for the info. Viner is no idiot, that's for sure. I think he's making the right moves to slowly build this team into a competitive and profitable business (people often forget that's what a sports team is, especially in the eyes of the owner).
Thanks and yes they realized when they hired Tallon that it was going to be a 3-5 yr plan and we're just going into yr 3 so we are technically ahead of that but still completely on track. I can tell in just a few days just how how smart a business person Viner is and I'm sure he has the same approach to the Panthers.
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
That Club Red is really going to be a hit or miss project. They are banking on the rich thinking it is some type of exclusive club, and I just do not see the incentive, considering the stage the team is in, the arena/team being in Sunrise, competition with arguably the biggest sporting attraction in the country (Heat), and a terrible economy. I can understand the concept, I just think it is terrible timing, they should have waited another year or two, when the team was probably a bit more competitive, playoff wise.
Yeah it definitely will be that. The other partner in the firm has apparently bought into the Club Red for next season so there are definitely some people that will buy into it. The question is really the long term viability of it and keeping people in there if you ask me.
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Originally Posted by hockey dude View Post
Yeah, congrats on job but suspect you won't be in it long if you are always leaking stuff to this forum.
I doubt that will be a problem and trust me, what I posted really isnt that surprising or something I couldnt have thought of on my own. I doubt I'll have that much access to inside info TBH.
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Originally Posted by MillarWithASave View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if "Club Red" was removed within five years from now due to no one being interested in paying $25,000+ for seats to watch the Florida Panthers. Just being honest.
Keep in mind that the Clud Red prices are not what you think they are. They have for just hockey season a price thats much lower. I asked my rep and for the hockey season he said something around $8,000 per spot. The rumored $25,000 per seat was for hockey, concerts, events, etc. I'm not even sure thats what they're charging in total.
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
I see Cliff alot between periods and he is great to talk to.

That said there are some flaws in the above.

You cant start a "club red" before a seriously successful product is rolled out. This wa way premature, insulting good sth's etc. It will be sad to see all those empties on TVin prime spots, and will make the arena quieter. IMHO a huge mistake in timing.

I have no problem with a ticket increase if you give me a good product. There is a clear corelation to spending and if thy want me to spend more, so do they.

This was awesome of you to share thank you so much.
Yes I agree with the timing especially of doing this. But I have seen what it looks like as of 2 weeks ago and its not as big as I originally thought it would be (I was at the arena for a Cirque De Soleil show on 7/21). There are still seats above and below the "Club Red" area so there will still be fans there. But the area itself is kinda like the Patron Club up on the 3rd level from what I could see. It should look pretty cool actually on TV if you ask me.

Yeah I think they believe as they will spend more, the team will improve and thus be able to charge more in ticket sales. But I think they're being patient now while some of the youngsters are still developing.
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
Club Red would work perfectly in downtown toronto or manhattan but in suburbia sunrise? The BAC and The Panthers simply don't have the flash the way downtown Miami/Heat do. No matter how good we are I dont think that will change. That being said the demographic of our fanbase is one of the highest end in all of professional sports. Mostly white collar workers and families from Weston, Parkland, and PBC. These people although wealthy wont be shelling out 25k for a seat any time soon.

If im going to shell out that kind of money im going to buy my own private suite for a 10 year rental, and have it as a tax write off. Much better and much more private than some club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
How many are there to fill up 25k dollar seats? The ADT club was the same thing except actually in the realm of affordability.
You can see my comment above about actual prices cause the amount is different for just hockey. Those people you talked about could be willing to spend 8k instead of 25k and its within their reach financially (maybe not for most of us though).

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08-01-2012, 04:00 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by harv3317 View Post
if tallon brings in luongo at this stage in our development i will have serious doubts about his competency!!!!!!
If Tallon gets Luongo, sends a cap hit back, and keeps all of our top prospects, I dont know how you feel its anything but a win for him!

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08-01-2012, 04:28 PM
  #847
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So much this.

I like Tallon as much as the next guy but like I've said before, I still remember "In Dudley we Trust," and "In Keenan we Trust," and "In Martin we Trust."

Gets a little old, fellas, and it doesn't exactly make for good conversation. Someone said earlier today that it sounded cult-like. They were spot on. It's okay to disagree with the moves of your general manager sometimes, and just because someone disagrees with the GM doesn't make them any less of a fan than you, or pessimistic, or a hater, or whatnot.
Can you disagree with a move he hasn't made yet? It's ok to trust someone until they give you reasons not to. Tallon had a good record. I'm confident he'll make the right decision regarding Luongo. It's not fair to distrust Tallon for the mistakes of his predecessors.

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08-01-2012, 04:35 PM
  #848
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Can you disagree with a move he hasn't made yet? It's ok to trust someone until they give you reasons not to. Tallon had a good record. I'm confident he'll make the right decision regarding Luongo. It's not fair to distrust Tallon for the mistakes of his predecessors.
I can disagree with single moves or decisions that Tallon does, and still be a big fan of his overall.

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08-01-2012, 04:40 PM
  #849
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if tallon can get away with 1st, cap dump, and decent prospect for Luongo. Ill be ok with it.

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08-01-2012, 04:51 PM
  #850
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I can disagree with single moves or decisions that Tallon does, and still be a big fan of his overall.
You're very correct, as is Clint. The move in question, though, is a trade for Luongo. He's still on Vancouver's roster. The move hasn't happened. No one knows what Tallon would be sending the other way. There's nothing to disagree with yet. It might not (probably won't, in my opinion) happen.

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