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Brandon Saad, Teuvo Teravainen lead the way in Chicago Blackhawks' top 20

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Old
09-16-2012, 04:15 PM
  #1
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Brandon Saad, Teuvo Teravainen lead the way in Chicago Blackhawks' top 20


Three of the Blackhawks' new additions from the 2012 NHL Draft make their debut in the new edition of the team's top 20 rankings, but the most significant storylines heading into the season belong to the prospects playing at the pro level. The NHL work stoppage will lead to a bevy of talent in the Rockford IceHogs lineup, including players like Nick Leddy, Marcus Kruger, and Brandon Saad who would have had a good chance of breaking camp with a spot in the Blackhawks lineup.



Prospects returning to Rockford after NHL experience last season like Andrew Shaw, Jimmy Hayes, Brandon Pirri, and Dylan Olsen will have to fend off challenges from the likes of third-year pros Jeremy Morin and Kyle Beach looking to regain their standing as top prospects within the organization and newcomers like Adam Clendening and Klas Dahlbeck hoping to make a strong first impression at the pro level.… read more



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09-16-2012, 05:11 PM
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BobbyJet
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We keep hearing how great our prospects are but Ice Hogs continue to be basement dwellers. Doesn't speak much for our coaching at any level in the organization.

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09-16-2012, 05:30 PM
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HockeySensible
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We keep hearing how great our prospects are but Ice Hogs continue to be basement dwellers. Doesn't speak much for our coaching at any level in the organization.
Well, first of all, alot of Chicago's best prospects haven't been in Rockford. Brandon Saad, Teuvo Teravainen, Mark McNeill, Phillip Danault, Stephen Johns, Kevin Hayes, Adam Clendening, etc.

Secondly, I think it was Mark Bernard (Icehogs GM) in a Rockford update video that said the Icehogs have been the youngest or second youngest team in the AHL over the past two years. Add to that questionable goaltending at times over the past two years, lengthy injuries to key players (Morin, Beach) and the fact that - especially last year - alot of guys have spent significant time in the NHL and it's tough to get a read on how good the Icehogs might have been.

However, this year, given the roster they'll have (and alot of AHL teams will have good rosters), the Icehogs should be expected to make the playoffs. They seem to have found a solid starter and alot of players will be entering their second or third AHL season. Should be a fun year.

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09-16-2012, 05:41 PM
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Blackhawkswincup
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Lalonde really shouldn't be in top 20 anymore

I dont see anything of quality from him nor expect him to make it to NHL at this point with the Hawks organization

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09-16-2012, 06:18 PM
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As far as the prospect rankings, consider the source. HFs opinion is no better or worse than any poster here. Just another source that happens to put it in print but yeah, Lalonde should not be in the top 20.

As far as the Hogs go, the coaching has changed. Since Haviland, its been less than adequate. Also the depth hasnt been there since Haviland was head coach. I mean Danis-Pepin was just cut. 7th, 8th round draft picks and FAs filling out the d. Richards taking over for Crawford. As much as I was down on Crawford in goal, he was miles better than Richards. At least Haviland had many prospects to work with who would eventually make the core of this team. The pipeline hasnt been filled until Stan started restocking.

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09-16-2012, 08:22 PM
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Hawkaholic
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We keep hearing how great our prospects are but Ice Hogs continue to be basement dwellers. Doesn't speak much for our coaching at any level in the organization.
You can blame Tallon for drafting like crap. Most of the guys Bowman has drafted havent even reached the age to play in the AHL or are in College.

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09-16-2012, 09:37 PM
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pvr
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
As far as the prospect rankings, consider the source. HFs opinion is no better or worse than any poster here. Just another source that happens to put it in print but yeah, Lalonde should not be in the top 20.

As far as the Hogs go, the coaching has changed. Since Haviland, its been less than adequate. Also the depth hasnt been there since Haviland was head coach. I mean Danis-Pepin was just cut. 7th, 8th round draft picks and FAs filling out the d. Richards taking over for Crawford. As much as I was down on Crawford in goal, he was miles better than Richards. At least Haviland had many prospects to work with who would eventually make the core of this team. The pipeline hasnt been filled until Stan started restocking.
Agree with your view of the HF eval to some extent. There is also a lack of internal cosistency in their ratings. Currently the Sharks' prospect ratings are up there with the Hawks on the HF home site. Comparing the two teams' prospect pool ratings for the top 20, one would think that San Jose is better (and it's not). Until there is a standardized rating system across teams, not just individuals ranking a single teams' prospects, the ratings mean little for comparison outside of an organization. Regarding Lalonde...well, not many 20th ranked propects ever pan out within an organization. It doesn't really matter where he's ranked vis a vis other "lower-ranked" Hawks prospects.

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09-16-2012, 09:45 PM
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ChiGuySez
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Agree with your view of the HF eval to some extent. There is also a lack of internal cosistency in their ratings. Currently the Sharks' prospect ratings are up there with the Hawks on the HF home site. Comparing the two teams' prospect pool ratings for the top 20, one would think that San Jose is better (and it's not). Until there is a standardized rating system across teams, not just individuals ranking a single teams' prospects, the ratings mean little for comparison outside of an organization. Regarding Lalonde...well, not many 20th ranked propects ever pan out within an organization. It doesn't really matter where he's ranked vis a vis other "lower-ranked" Hawks prospects.
Brad Grabner wrote the article. Decent writer but we've had the pleasure to see his prospect evalutions over his tenure at HF. Not saying it completely off base but just sayin.

BTW, Wisniewski was rated 4C... LMAO. OK Brad didnt make that valuation. Neither did JJ. In all fairness, HF didnt have a dedicated writer covering the Hawks at the time. It was all ad-hoc by committee.

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09-17-2012, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Lalonde really shouldn't be in top 20 anymore
Why?
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I dont see anything of quality from him nor expect him to make it to NHL at this point with the Hawks organization
I have to throw out the cliched "how much of Lalonde have you seen play lately" to this considering I have, and have seen him, in one year, become that much more proficient in his own zone while playing a whole lot tougher against tougher opposition while on the Hogs.

I will go as far as to say the only reason Leddy is on the Hawks instead of Lalonde is on account of who drafted one while who traded for the other. Similar players while one (Lalonde) is getting a bit more sand paper to his game. Lalonde will be an NHL'er at some point in his career, on the Hawks or what not remains to be seen, but giving up on him would be foolish.

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09-17-2012, 05:19 AM
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Lalonde > Leddy


needed a laugh and Martini delivered

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09-17-2012, 07:27 AM
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pvr
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^I don't see where Martini wrote that Lalonde is better than Leddy, do you? He used the comparative word "similar", not ">". To me that translates to something on the lines of "more or less", or "about the same". Not surprisingly, he gives the observation that Lalonde improved over the past year on the Hogs. Seems likely enough to me.

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09-17-2012, 09:06 AM
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As far as the Hogs go, the coaching has changed. Since Haviland, its been less than adequate. Also the depth hasnt been there since Haviland was head coach. I mean Danis-Pepin was just cut. 7th, 8th round draft picks and FAs filling out the d. Richards taking over for Crawford. As much as I was down on Crawford in goal, he was miles better than Richards. At least Haviland had many prospects to work with who would eventually make the core of this team. The pipeline hasnt been filled until Stan started restocking.

The organizational infrastructure wasn't there and it was neglected anyway. Tallon wasn't suited to manage all the needs of both clubs either, and it's not as if he had much help anyway. Poor drafts aren't excuse enough to justify all the losing and terrible play in Rockford the last seasons.

If Rockford doesn't take a step forward this year, I'm going to have some big questions about management and hires at both levels.

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09-17-2012, 09:40 AM
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^I don't see where Martini wrote that Lalonde is better than Leddy, do you? He used the comparative word "similar", not ">". To me that translates to something on the lines of "more or less", or "about the same". Not surprisingly, he gives the observation that Lalonde improved over the past year on the Hogs. Seems likely enough to me.
.. LaLonde also has an edge to his game that Leddy doesn't. More penalty minutes last year and he went from a -16 to a -2.

He is only 22 so I don't see him as a bust... I look forward to your insights martini... I hope to catch a couple of games against the wolves at the allstate.

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09-17-2012, 11:07 AM
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ChiGuySez
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The organizational infrastructure wasn't there and it was neglected anyway. Tallon wasn't suited to manage all the needs of both clubs either, and it's not as if he had much help anyway. Poor drafts aren't excuse enough to justify all the losing and terrible play in Rockford the last seasons.

If Rockford doesn't take a step forward this year, I'm going to have some big questions about management and hires at both levels.
Agreed management infrastructure was bad. The Hawks transitioned from Norfolk to Rockford which switched affiliations from the UHL to the AHL. Tallon was focused on surviving under McD. Wound up making key acquisitions and won the cup after many FA failures, even if he overpaid and screwed the Hawks with the cap.

As far as the Rockfords player personal goes, Rockford didnt have any horses left after key players graduated. Bolland, Brower, Versteeg, Dowell et al. and just before that Keith, Wisniewski and few others. Cant win with that big of a talent drain with no incoming players to fill. Poor drafts under Tallon didnt help.

But yeah, Rockford needs to show something, even if they have I think one of the youngest clubs in the AHL. Not like the Wolves who dont care about development.

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09-17-2012, 11:30 AM
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I have to throw out the cliched "how much of Lalonde have you seen play lately" to this considering I have, and have seen him, in one year, become that much more proficient in his own zone while playing a whole lot tougher against tougher opposition while on the Hogs.
I don't think most people on this board have ever seen the Icehogs play and just base their opinions on what they have read on this site. Lavin was probably the best d-man for Rockford in the games I went to and I doubt most people on this site know absolutely anything about him. Lalonde was bad as an AHL rookie and people read about that and formed their opinion of him based off of that.

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09-17-2012, 11:44 AM
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Iíll probably get flamed for this but Leddy has disappointed me to date. Of course heís still very young and was certainly rushed into the Hawks line up due to our lack of depth in the back end, and I have by no means given up on him. However at this point in his career it looks like some Hawk fans may have overrated his potential. Thereís no question that he has great wheels and can play well offensively in flashes but the jury is still out when it comes to putting it all together defensively and his ability to play the physical game. This season Q needs to separate he and Oduya. That experiment didnít help his progress.
As for Lalonde, other than a few glimpses in training camp (he didn't look bad) and evaluations from folks here, I know nothing about him. Indeed, learning to play defensively in the minors can pay dividends and he certainly wouldnít be the first dman to emerge from the AHL as a pretty decent blue liner.

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09-17-2012, 11:56 AM
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Wait, what? All Leddy has done since his first NHL game is steadily improve.

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09-17-2012, 12:34 PM
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I don't think most people on this board have ever seen the Icehogs play and just base their opinions on what they have read on this site. Lavin was probably the best d-man for Rockford in the games I went to and I doubt most people on this site know absolutely anything about him. Lalonde was bad as an AHL rookie and people read about that and formed their opinion of him based off of that.
He played at Notre Dame for four years. His last year he played with Johns I know. Wasn't he the teams captain ?

Does he have offensive upside ? I heard he plays a sound game, and has some size. I wonder does he have an edge to his game ?

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09-17-2012, 04:23 PM
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Lavin was Captain as a Senior in 2011 for Notre Dame.

They made it to the Frozen Four and lost to Minnesota Duluth.

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09-17-2012, 05:29 PM
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The AHL is a developmental league if you want to ice a mediocre team. If you want your team to win, it's going to be propped up by veteran AHL talent playing ahead of the kids.

I've said elsewhere, but if we go with the current team in Rockford next year it's a whole lot of kids and St. Pierre. Expect another finish out of the playoffs while Haydar leads the Wolves in scoring and deep into the playoffs.

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09-17-2012, 05:38 PM
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What would people rather have?

Play the kids or make the po's with vets leading the way?

Kids for me.

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09-17-2012, 05:50 PM
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Which is fine, but going on deep playoff runs in the minor leagues in lessened roles has a much bigger impact then you're giving it credit for.

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09-17-2012, 05:56 PM
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There's nothing better for a player's development than a good coach and a winning team.

Dent and Co. improved a lot as the last season went on, but I'm not yet prepared to say Rockford has either.

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09-17-2012, 05:57 PM
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What would people rather have?

Play the kids or make the po's with vets leading the way?

Kids for me.
Too much ice time for the kids without veterans around them leads to bad habits and bad development most of the time in my opinion. I say play the kids, but limit the number of kids you are going to force ice time on. Too many kids getting too much ice time is almost counterproductive to an extent, especially when it comes to playing in a system.

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09-17-2012, 06:00 PM
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You need to make the kids earn the number one PP time. Icing a kid with lazy habits because he's clearly better then the rest of the kids is something you do in Bantam.

At the minor PRO level, forcing that kid to try by having a solid veteran scorer or three like St. Pierre, Krog, Haydar, etc. on the roster promotes competition which promotes growth.

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