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Shane Doan (Re-signs with Yotes)

View Poll Results: Do you want Doan?
Yes , At any cost/term 3 7.50%
Yes but only at reasonable cost/term 34 85.00%
Nope 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-09-2012, 10:14 AM
  #476
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I would be OK with giving up a 1st if we really had to, nothing more than that. But I doubt LA does it.
Ok, glad we can agree on that. If it also takes a 4th or even a 3rd on top of that, I think that is a small price to close a good hockey deal.

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08-09-2012, 10:15 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Which ones?
Just look at the 2011 roster until now.
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The team still only has four top-6 forwards. The team has not had a #3 defenseman since Campbell was traded, and the defensive core as a whole is therefore weaker. Still no second line center.Awful team defense (IMO this is both a coaching and roster problem - two things Stan has control over).
I agree with all of these. I've had a huge problem with the coaching and that falls on Stan even if he doesn't have authority to bump Q around
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Goaltending has gotten worse since Stan took over.
I don't get this. They were spending a fortune on the net and buried one contract and waived Khabibulin. Khabibulin had one good most-of-a-year (when he was healthy) on his contract. Niemi was a mess until the final few games of that season. Goaltending has been weak, but it hasn't been strong in a really long time in Chicago.
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Lack of toughness throughout the lineup.
As much a philosophical issue as a roster one. They weren't any more or less tough in 09 or 10 than they were last year on the whole. This is not going to change much with Quenneville and Bowmans calling the shots. I agree it's a weakness, but it's unlikely to be a priority as long as those 3 are in Chicago in my opinion.
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I disagree. I don't really see improvement in any of these areas. They have all stayed the same or gotten worse through Bowman's tenure.
I think there were a number of issues that have been addressed that aren't on your list there.

We all knew the team was going to be gutted. 2 years ago, they barely had 8 NHL forwards and 5 NHL defensemen with uncertainty surrounding a couple of the really good players' future. They didn't have a goalie, cap space, a system with an intact organizational infrastructure or the personnel to fit to it.

There were a group of really good players surrounded by pretty much nothing no matter who was gm unless 2 or 3 of the big players were traded. There were many more holes a couple years ago than there are now. I don't care if it was Bowman or Holland or Lamoriello or Chiarelli, I really don't think they were going to fix more than one or two other holes than the Hawks have now without leaving other deficiencies. As it stands now, the systemic holes are filled or have been addressed, most of the depth has been addressed in one form or another, the most important players are on good contracts, there is much better talent on the bottom 2 lines and 5-8 dmen, and a number of the specific role players have been identified to plug in holes that had been there for two years.

When people say that nothing has happened, I disagree, I think quite a bit has happened and I think the team is back to moving forward again even though some big holes remain (I think goaltending questions are a tradition at this point). Many of the larger issues have been addressed already.

Yes, Bowman could have done more. Trading options that don't create more holes are few and far between. Since maybe around 30% of UFA signings work out well across the league (fewer live up to their contract), I'm not as alarmed by the lack of FA signings, I'm actually glad he's not trying to plug many holes on the FA market. I think the risk of a mistake is much greater than the chance of making the team more likely to win anything.

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08-09-2012, 11:33 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
So your willing to give up Saad or TT and at least 1 first round pick and maybe more. Bjustad is along with Huberdeau the Panthers best prospect so don't think Morin or Beach is getting it done.
Huberdeau is a much better prospect than Saad.

Bjustad is a slightly better prospect than Saad considering he is a center and Saad is a wing.

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08-09-2012, 11:56 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
When people say that nothing has happened, I disagree, I think quite a bit has happened and I think the team is back to moving forward again even though some big holes remain (I think goaltending questions are a tradition at this point). Many of the larger issues have been addressed already.
.
Which large issues are you referring to, that have been fixed? Bringing in Carcillo and Mayers has helped somewhat, as has the play of Shaw to some degree, and I suppose Brookbank will help the grit in the back end, but other than that, we still have the same holes. IE. between the pipes, no natural 2nd line centerman and a rather soft defense.
The above are more baby steps in the right direction, imo, not enough.

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08-09-2012, 12:14 PM
  #480
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Back on topic. I’ve read recently that Rangers are the favourite to grab Doan if he makes himself available. Also that Preds have entered into the mix, but other than the original story from a “source”, I still have not heard that outrageous price tag of $ 7 M mentioned by anyone creditable.

On TSN website, Doan himself did say that if he left Phoenix, he was seeking a “long term” deal which is likely 4 years, but money was not mentioned. If he is insisting on a 4 year deal, I doubt we are in the running.

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08-09-2012, 01:28 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Ok, glad we can agree on that. If it also takes a 4th or even a 3rd on top of that, I think that is a small price to close a good hockey deal.
In your mind perhaps.

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08-09-2012, 01:31 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Back on topic. I’ve read recently that Rangers are the favourite to grab Doan if he makes himself available. Also that Preds have entered into the mix, but other than the original story from a “source”, I still have not heard that outrageous price tag of $ 7 M mentioned by anyone creditable.

On TSN website, Doan himself did say that if he left Phoenix, he was seeking a “long term” deal which is likely 4 years, but money was not mentioned. If he is insisting on a 4 year deal, I doubt we are in the running.


...and I applaud Stan for taking that stance...

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08-09-2012, 02:03 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by unbridledid View Post

...and I applaud Stan for taking that stance...
Yeah, few people don't.

Doan is really looking to cash in, it sounds like. I can see Sather being dumb enough to give in to Doan's salary and term demands.

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08-09-2012, 02:19 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Which large issues are you referring to, that have been fixed? Bringing in Carcillo and Mayers has helped somewhat, as has the play of Shaw to some degree, and I suppose Brookbank will help the grit in the back end, but other than that, we still have the same holes. IE. between the pipes, no natural 2nd line centerman and a rather soft defense.
The above are more baby steps in the right direction, imo, not enough.
They had to rebuild, there were a bunch of massive holes.

The team had 12 or 14 legitimate roster players in 2011 and very few assets to work with. How was there not significant progress made?

That doesn't mean one of the issues at net, 2c, or 3d couldn't be addressed but I think there have been bigger issues than individual positions that have been addressed, hopefully successfully.


Last edited by hockeydoug: 08-09-2012 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Same comments copied twice, bad formatting.
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08-09-2012, 02:21 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Doan is really looking to cash in, it sounds like. I can see Sather being dumb enough to give in to Doan's salary and term demands.
I agree. I don't think too many people would be shocked to see another ridiculous signing by Sather.

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08-09-2012, 02:34 PM
  #486
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Like hell he is! Not even close actually.
You really, really need to re-watch some Hawk games from last year. Oduya is twice the player Campoli is and Campoli is just as "soft".

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08-09-2012, 02:36 PM
  #487
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Anyone who'd give up a 1st for Bernier hasn't watched enough of Bernier in the NHL over the past 2 seasons.

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08-09-2012, 02:46 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
You really, really need to re-watch some Hawk games from last year. Oduya is twice the player Campoli is and Campoli is just as "soft".

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08-09-2012, 02:47 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
Go re-watch some Hawk games from last year. Campoli was a turnover machine and was just as good at getting hit.

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08-09-2012, 03:03 PM
  #490
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Ya, Campoli was awful, i'll take Oduya over him every day of the week.

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08-09-2012, 03:05 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Ok, glad we can agree on that. If it also takes a 4th or even a 3rd on top of that, I think that is a small price to close a good hockey deal.
I still think it is far too much. The ONLY reason I would do it is because there is nothing out there right now. I would prefer we stay with Crawford and wait till next year, but if the GM pulls the trigger with the 1st, I wouldn't be terribly upset. (just a little)

I would love for it to happen, and then watch Bernier be just as bad as Crawford, and then watch all of you tell us how bad Bowman is for trading a 1st for him.

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08-09-2012, 03:05 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Go re-watch some Hawk games from last year. Campoli was a turnover machine and was just as good at getting hit.
Between ott and chicago campoli had 99hits in 10-11, between wpg and chicago, oduya had 64 last year. Campoli was a much more physical player than oduya. Now I can't find a site to look up just each of their stats on chicago outside of just the basics like points(1g 6a +3 in 19gp for campoli and 1g 4a +3 in 18gp for oduya), but I remember campoli playing better for us than oduya did.

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08-09-2012, 03:07 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
Between ott and chicago campoli had 99hits in 10-11, between wpg and chicago, oduya had 64 last year. Campoli was a much more physical player than oduya. Now I can't find a site to look up just each of their stats on chicago outside of just the basics like points(1g 6a +3 in 19gp for campoli and 1g 4a +3 in 18gp for oduya), but I remember campoli playing better for us than oduya did.
Wow, a whole .4hits per game more. He is much more physical.

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08-09-2012, 03:11 PM
  #494
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Wow, a whole .4hits per game more. He is much more physical.
Psh no difference between 64pts and 99pts, just .4ppg. that's actually ~50% more hits. Now you look pretty silly when it gets framed in a way that actually makes sense, don't you? Not to mention, he was more physical not just by hitting more. He was better around the net and boards and actually used his body even though he's not really much bigger than oduya.

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08-09-2012, 03:20 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
Psh no difference between 64pts and 99pts, just .4ppg. that's actually ~50% more hits. Now you look pretty silly when it gets framed in a way that actually makes sense, don't you? Not to mention, he was more physical not just by hitting more. He was better around the net and boards and actually used his body even though he's not really much bigger than oduya.
Uhh, do 200 NHLers score 100pts or more every season? What a stupid comparison.

0.4hits per game more, that is all you need to hear. It's nothing.

Blocked shots count as not being soft too,

blocked shots w/ CHI-OTT/WPG
Oduya - 140
Campoli - 91

I would much rather a puck moving Dman block shots than hit, and Oduya is miles ahead with blocking shots.

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08-09-2012, 03:29 PM
  #496
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You’re right madgoat. Objectivity goes out the window for a few here when Oduya’s or Kruger’s name gets mentioned. Both are pillowy soft. As for comparing the 2 players overall, I think we’ve been through this. JO probably has the edge over Campoli when he is on his game but there’s no way he is worth the money he is making, …. But some folks logic will always be: If Stan signed him for that much, he must be worth it. Campoli showed some good chemistry here and played much better with us than he did with Ottawa and so far in Montreal (though a bad groin injury set him back last season with the Habs).

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08-09-2012, 03:29 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I would love for it to happen, and then watch Bernier be just as bad as Crawford, and then watch all of you tell us how bad Bowman is for trading a 1st for him.
Nobody who wants it now would say anything bad about it later. Come on, you know that. Oduya, I trashed that one the second I heard it and stick by that. Big difference.

I admit though, he is not one of those guys I really, really want to get like others might. I lean more toward you, there isn't anything better out there, he has high end potential, let's try it.

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08-09-2012, 03:42 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I still think it is far too much. The ONLY reason I would do it is because there is nothing out there right now. I would prefer we stay with Crawford and wait till next year, but if the GM pulls the trigger with the 1st, I wouldn't be terribly upset. (just a little)

I would love for it to happen, and then watch Bernier be just as bad as Crawford, and then watch all of you tell us how bad Bowman is for trading a 1st for him.
WOW! You'd rather the team fail at making a trade so you can tell people I told you so, then the trade work out and the Hawks are better off.

Good to see where your priorities are.

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08-09-2012, 03:43 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Uhh, do 200 NHLers score 100pts or more every season? What a stupid comparison.

0.4hits per game more, that is all you need to hear. It's nothing.

Blocked shots count as not being soft too,

blocked shots w/ CHI-OTT/WPG
Oduya - 140
Campoli - 91

I would much rather a puck moving Dman block shots than hit, and Oduya is miles ahead with blocking shots.

LOL ...You keep digging. Hopefully the shot blocking JO will show up this coming season. I certainly didn’t see much of it last season with the Hawks.

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08-09-2012, 03:59 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
So your willing to give up Saad or TT and at least 1 first round pick and maybe more. Bjustad is along with Huberdeau the Panthers best prospect so don't think Morin or Beach is getting it done.
when did I say I would give this up for Luongo?

you really need to stop that put words into others mouth thing you have going.


Tallon is not interested in this deal as isn't Bowman willing to give up a guy like Saad

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