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Shane Doan (Re-signs with Yotes)

View Poll Results: Do you want Doan?
Yes , At any cost/term 3 7.50%
Yes but only at reasonable cost/term 34 85.00%
Nope 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-09-2012, 03:00 PM
  #501
Sir Psycho T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
when did I say I would give this up for Luongo?

you really need to stop that put words into others mouth thing you have going.


Tallon is not interested in this deal as isn't Bowman willing to give up a guy like Saad
Then your not getting Luongo, if you think a late first round pick and a mid level prospect will get Luongo your kidding yourself.

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08-09-2012, 03:04 PM
  #502
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On Bernier and Luongo...I have it on good authority that the Hawks have kicked the tires on both, but neither team will be trading either to the Hawks any time soon. Not interested in helping a team they have a decent chance of meeting in the playoffs.

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Old
08-09-2012, 03:05 PM
  #503
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if they get Doan, they won't have a chance to keep him.

1. Would be way over the Cap (that's why they couldn't get salary in return)
2. He said he wants to go
3. he has a NTC and is not willing to go to a team like CBJ or EDM

all in all, it comes down to TO, FLA & the Hawks. No team is desperate enough to pay a premium and VAN won't go into the season with Luongo on the roster

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Old
08-09-2012, 03:10 PM
  #504
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My issue with JO is his game was never really needed on this team, PMD, the Hawks have those Keith, Leddy, and Montador when healthy. If Oduya was traded for for depth and to fill in for Montador fine, but he should have never been resigned to fill a hole the Hawks don't have and never for that much money.

The Hawks have too many similar players on the back end, 6'0'' 200lb light hittind and not defensive minded. Outside of Seabrook no one fills that role, would have rather the Hawks not signed Oduya and instead got Allen who is bigger, blocks more shots, hits more, and is better in his own end then Oduya.

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08-09-2012, 04:11 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Then your not getting Luongo, if you think a late first round pick and a mid level prospect will get Luongo your kidding yourself.
Good ... I would rather kid myself than have lou and his contract...

He's been out there and Schneider is signed...everybody knows it yet there is no deal. His contract is an anchor and anybody taking it on is doing the Nucks a favor, that will have a significant impact on the return...

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Old
08-09-2012, 04:14 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
My issue with JO is his game was never really needed on this team, PMD, the Hawks have those Keith, Leddy, and Montador when healthy. If Oduya was traded for for depth and to fill in for Montador fine, but he should have never been resigned to fill a hole the Hawks don't have and never for that much money.

The Hawks have too many similar players on the back end, 6'0'' 200lb light hittind and not defensive minded. Outside of Seabrook no one fills that role, would have rather the Hawks not signed Oduya and instead got Allen who is bigger, blocks more shots, hits more, and is better in his own end then Oduya.
Oh-do-Yah isn't ideal, but he is good. I am glad he was resigned and didn't walk, at least we can get some return on our investment (2nd/3rd rounders).

I know that is why everybody is high on Johns... he goes out of his way to hit...
Seabs, Olsen, Johns.... That gives us size and snarl... but it's a ways away..


Last edited by unbridledid: 08-09-2012 at 04:20 PM.
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Old
08-09-2012, 04:35 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
WOW! You'd rather the team fail at making a trade so you can tell people I told you so, then the trade work out and the Hawks are better off.

Good to see where your priorities are.
Obviously I want Chicago to do as best as possible, and win every trade. I just would like to see the reaction if that ever did happen. It would be mass hysteria!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
LOL ...You keep digging. Hopefully the shot blocking JO will show up this coming season. I certainly didnít see much of it last season with the Hawks.
Did you watch any of the games then?

Playoffs - Oduya was 2nd on the team with 10 blocked shots
Regular season w/ Chicago - 42 blocked shots in 18 games..IIRC..it was the 2nd most in that time span.

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Old
08-09-2012, 04:59 PM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
My issue with JO is his game was never really needed on this team, PMD, the Hawks have those Keith, Leddy, and Montador when healthy. If Oduya was traded for for depth and to fill in for Montador fine, but he should have never been resigned to fill a hole the Hawks don't have and never for that much money.

The Hawks have too many similar players on the back end, 6'0'' 200lb light hittind and not defensive minded. Outside of Seabrook no one fills that role, would have rather the Hawks not signed Oduya and instead got Allen who is bigger, blocks more shots, hits more, and is better in his own end then Oduya.
No doubt about that ... and it really makes me wonder about Stan and his knowledge of the NHL game when it comes to building a team that compliments one another. That is sadly lacking in the back end, and if heaven forbid, Seabrook gets hurt for any length of time we are all the more vulnerable because of it. On the bright side, Olsen could help alleviate that gap after gaining some valuable experience last season.

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Old
08-09-2012, 05:06 PM
  #509
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Except Oduya WAS brought in to replace what Monty was supposed to do. With the uncertainty re: Montadors concussion, he was resigned and is now higher on the depth chart than Monty.

Defense depth still looks better than last year:

12-13 11-12
Keith > Keith
Seabrook = Seabrook
Leddy > Leddy
Oduya > Montador
Montador > Lepisto
Brookbank >>> OD

I think that is a fair assessment.

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Old
08-09-2012, 07:38 PM
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Except Oduya WAS brought in to replace what Monty was supposed to do. With the uncertainty re: Montadors concussion, he was resigned and is now higher on the depth chart than Monty.

Defense depth still looks better than last year:

12-13 11-12
Keith > Keith
Seabrook = Seabrook
Leddy > Leddy
Oduya > Montador
Montador > Lepisto
Brookbank >>> OD

I think that is a fair assessment.
How do you know Keith will be better, he might be getting worse because he is older and can't be the same athlete he was 3 years ago, no sure thing he is better.

You didn't mention Hammer.

Fine there is more talent, what's the difference between, Montador, Hammer, Leddy, Oduya, Brookbank? They are all almost the exact same size, they all don't hit much, they all don't block tons of shots. That is my issue, Bowman is trying to put together 6 Keiths as his defense instead of 3 Keiths and 3 Searbooks which is what it would take to win, balance not 6 undersized PMD.

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:12 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
How do you know Keith will be better, he might be getting worse because he is older and can't be the same athlete he was 3 years ago, no sure thing he is better.

You didn't mention Hammer.

Fine there is more talent, what's the difference between, Montador, Hammer, Leddy, Oduya, Brookbank? They are all almost the exact same size, they all don't hit much, they all don't block tons of shots. That is my issue, Bowman is trying to put together 6 Keiths as his defense instead of 3 Keiths and 3 Searbooks which is what it would take to win, balance not 6 undersized PMD.
I'm optimistic, unlike you.
Hammer will be like he always is.


There is a difference between those players, none have the exact same game.

Brookbank is fairly physical, and blocks a decent amount of shots, and is a SAH Dman and good defensively
Montador is a mix of PMD and SAH, not great at anything, not bad at anything
Oduya is a PMD who blocks a lot of shots, and is a great skater, avg defensively
Leddy is a great skater, PMD, who isn't great defensively (yet)
Hammer is a SAH dman who tries to move the puck, but shouldnt, good defensively
Don't have to tell you about the other two.

Keith Seabrook
Oduya PMD Hammer SAH
Leddy PMD Brookbank SAH

I dont see the issue.

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08-09-2012, 08:24 PM
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
How do you know Keith will be better, he might be getting worse because he is older and can't be the same athlete he was 3 years ago, no sure thing he is better.

You didn't mention Hammer.

Fine there is more talent, what's the difference between, Montador, Hammer, Leddy, Oduya, Brookbank? They are all almost the exact same size, they all don't hit much, they all don't block tons of shots. That is my issue, Bowman is trying to put together 6 Keiths as his defense instead of 3 Keiths and 3 Searbooks which is what it would take to win, balance not 6 undersized PMD.

Yea, at 29 I figure Keith needs to be sent to the glue factory....

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Old
08-09-2012, 08:36 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by unbridledid View Post
Yea, at 29 I figure Keith needs to be sent to the glue factory....
Hey look at you taking something that I said completely out of context, AGAIN!

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08-09-2012, 08:38 PM
  #514
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Yea, at 29 I figure Keith needs to be sent to the glue factory....

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08-09-2012, 09:18 PM
  #515
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Hope they pick him up

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08-09-2012, 09:19 PM
  #516
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Real.nice acquisition for them

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08-10-2012, 05:49 AM
  #517
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@ Keith being old and can't play good

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08-10-2012, 08:13 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
@ Keith being old and can't play good

Let’s call a spade, a spade, shall we? I know you, and others, will defend Keith no matter how badly he plays, but it’s no laughing matter that Keith in his prime has digressed in his game. His play did come around somewhat last season after a dismal cup hangover year but he’s proven he can be much better. I think it is all psychological. The team needs him back to playing at, or at least close to the level he was at in the SC year. Additionally, Q needs to cut his ice time and quit coddling him; sit him when he plays poorly … as should be the case for all players on the team, with no exceptions.

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Old
08-10-2012, 08:41 AM
  #519
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Yeah, he's not as good as he was a couple years ago, but don't sit there and claim the isn't still a great defenseman.

Just because he's not the best in the league doesn't mean he suddenly sucks.

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08-10-2012, 08:53 AM
  #520
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Letís call a spade, a spade, shall we? I know you, and others, will defend Keith no matter how badly he plays, but itís no laughing matter that Keith in his prime has digressed in his game. His play did come around somewhat last season after a dismal cup hangover year but heís proven he can be much better. I think it is all psychological. The team needs him back to playing at, or at least close to the level he was at in the SC year. Additionally, Q needs to cut his ice time and quit coddling him; sit him when he plays poorly Ö as should be the case for all players on the team, with no exceptions.
I agree with this...especially the psychological part. It's almost like his head isn't in it.

And you're right about people sitting if they're playing badly. With Q it seems that certain players are guaranteed ice time irrespective of how they play. If people aren't showing up then they should spend a period watching from the bench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Yeah, he's not as good as he was a couple years ago, but don't sit there and claim the isn't still a great defenseman.

Just because he's not the best in the league doesn't mean he suddenly sucks.
I agree...but "not sucking" isn't enough. He needs to step up his game big time this year.

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08-10-2012, 09:02 AM
  #521
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Keith is fine, he doesn't need to be the best defensman in the league for Chicago to do well. His play last year put him in the top 10 Dmen category again, how can we complain about that?...wait, I'm on the Hawks msg board, we complain about everything!

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08-10-2012, 09:27 AM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Keith is fine, he doesn't need to be the best defensman in the league for Chicago to do well. His play last year put him in the top 10 Dmen category again, how can we complain about that?...wait, I'm on the Hawks msg board, we complain about everything!
That's Bowman's fault. He keeps saying the stars need to play like stars, the players need to play better, the coaches need to coach better. He won't stop saying those things, so some people are naturally going to take it and run with it.

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08-10-2012, 09:35 AM
  #523
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
That's Bowman's fault. He keeps saying the stars need to play like stars, the players need to play better, the coaches need to coach better. He won't stop saying those things, so some people are naturally going to take it and run with it.
...well what else do you expect a G.M to say... The status quo is acceptable ?

You and Stan agree on something..... I say hallelujah !

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08-10-2012, 09:40 AM
  #524
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...well what else do you expect a G.M to say... The status quo is acceptable ?

You and Stan agree on something..... I say hallelujah !
The stars are not the problem with this team. I am 100% satisfied with their performance last year. Would I have liked it to be a little better, especially the playoffs, sure, but it's not a video game, it's not NHL 12, that's what Bowman doesn't understand. This is the real life, the NHL, they played hard, had good years, sometimes Points Per Game averages, etc. don't bear out over a 6 game sample size....which is why....wait for it....you LOAD UP.

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08-10-2012, 09:40 AM
  #525
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Comparing him to how he played in 2010 to the last two years doesn't make too much sense to me. He used to be allowed to shoot more and float around where now he's in a more rigid system. He's not allowed to gamble as much anymore. His turnover to takeaway ratio is the best it's been in 4 years and his decision making was just as good (or bad for his detractors) last year as the year he won the Norris. If he played like he did in 2010 last year I think the Hawks would have had even more trouble in their own zone.

He just doesn't (or isn't allowed) to gamble as much as he used to, I think 2011 was a bad year for him but I thought we saw the player we were supposed to see last year.

He's an excellent defenseman and one of the best in the league overall, and he stays healthy for a cap hit of only 5.5. I don't think he should be expected to play much beyond how he played last year.

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