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Shane Doan (Re-signs with Yotes)

View Poll Results: Do you want Doan?
Yes , At any cost/term 3 7.50%
Yes but only at reasonable cost/term 34 85.00%
Nope 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:41 PM
  #151
Blue Liner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Seriously? Comparing Doan to Kostitsyn.

Not only is Doan better offensively, he is a leader, he is tougher, he is a heart and soul guy, and he is better defensively. Those 2 should never be mentioned in the same breathe.

There is no one out there like Doan. The only reason I am skeptical about signing him to more than a 1-2 year deal is because of whats available next year.
I didn't really follow the comparison, either, but..

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07-11-2012, 04:50 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Not only is Doan better offensively, he is a leader, he is tougher, he is a heart and soul guy, and he is better defensively. Those 2 should never be mentioned in the same breathe.
Considering the added risks Doan brings he should be exceptionally better in every category than AK is over the life of the contract and that just isn't true. AK can pot 20 goals a year, can be physical, isn't bad defensively at all, and comes cheaper and with less risk. Tell me exactly in what area (other than the ever so popular intangible of "heart and soul") does Doan represent a substantial enough upgrade over AK to be worth 10x the risk.

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07-11-2012, 04:59 PM
  #153
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Doan is a much better option than AK. If the Hawks don't sign Doan, I'd prefer them not even to look at AK.

I can't believe these 2 are getting compared on here. He also isn't 10x the risk than AK is. AK is no guarantee himself.

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07-11-2012, 04:59 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
Considering the added risks Doan brings he should be exceptionally better in every category than AK is over the life of the contract and that just isn't true. AK can pot 20 goals a year, can be physical, isn't bad defensively at all, and comes cheaper and with less risk. Tell me exactly in what area (other than the ever so popular intangible of "heart and soul") does Doan represent a substantial enough upgrade over AK to be worth 10x the risk.
When a guy like Toews is trying to get him on our team, and doesnt say a thing about Kostitsyn, that means a lot.

And..

Stats - Doan/AK
Goals - 22/16
Assists - 28/20
Hits - 205/112
SOG - 226/122
PPP - 14/2
BLKs - 29/9
+ all the other stats I could add

Add to all that Doan is the better teammate, while Kostitsyns goes out drinking the night before the most important game in Nashvilles history.

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07-11-2012, 05:02 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein View Post
Doan is a much better option than AK.
Why? You all keep saying Doan is a much better option than AK is explain it to me. Explain to me what part of Doan's game makes him a much better option to justify the additional risks he brings, because I just don't see it.

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07-11-2012, 05:15 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
When a guy like Toews is trying to get him on our team, and doesnt say a thing about Kostitsyn, that means a lot.

And..

Stats - Doan/AK
Goals - 22/16 -> 6 more goals. And Doan got more pp time and was on a better team.
Assists - 28/20 -> 8 more assists and Doan got more pp time on a better team
Hits - 205/112 -> Subjective, but I'll concede this is the 1 area where Doan represents any type of significant upgrade.
SOG - 226/122 -> Doan had more ice time and was on a better team. AK did convert a higher percentage of his chances though.
PPP - 14/2 -> 14/6 actually and Doan had more pp time.
BLKs - 29/9 -> 27/9 and still doesn't represent a significant upgrade overall.
+ all the other stats I could add (keep trying)
Responses are bolded.

14 points, 90 hits, and a big name. Still not worth the added risk of a 35+ contract for multiple years at market value.

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07-11-2012, 05:17 PM
  #157
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If you dont think Doan is a MUCH better option than AK, there is no point of even discussing this with you.

There is a reason almost every team in the league is after him, and a reason why no one cares about AK.

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07-11-2012, 05:27 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
Responses are bolded.

14 points, 90 hits, and a big name. Still not worth the added risk of a 35+ contract for multiple years at market value.
Nashville was better than Phoenix. They had seven more points in a tougher division. Not sure why you keep saying Doan was on a better team, that's 100% wrong.

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07-11-2012, 05:30 PM
  #159
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I think Doan is a better player than Kostitsyn and more of what we need.. but if you can't get Doan and Kostitsyn comes here, on a 1-year contract, I think he'd be a very good guy to play with Bolland.

Saad - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Kruger (?) - Hossa
Stalberg - Bolland - Kostitsyn
Shaw - Mayers - Carcillo

I'm not sold, at all, on Kostitsyn's character.. but, he's a talented player who does bring a decent amount of grit and would be a complement to Bolland if he's motivated and focused on the right things.. which has been a problem with AK.

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07-11-2012, 05:31 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by RayP View Post
Nashville was better than Phoenix. They had seven more points in a tougher division. Not sure why you keep saying Doan was on a better team, that's 100% wrong.
Because AK played on Montreal for more than half the season...

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07-11-2012, 05:33 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
Considering the added risks Doan brings he should be exceptionally better in every category than AK is over the life of the contract and that just isn't true. AK can pot 20 goals a year, can be physical, isn't bad defensively at all, and comes cheaper and with less risk. Tell me exactly in what area (other than the ever so popular intangible of "heart and soul") does Doan represent a substantial enough upgrade over AK to be worth 10x the risk.
The real question is what does AK bring to this team it needs?

He isn't physical, great he can be but he isn't, he isn't good defensively, not bad, the Hawks are filled with not bad, how about good. He doesn't go to the dirty areas to make plays, he isn't an agitator like Doan is, and that "heart and soul" intangelable you laugh at and mock is exactly what this team lacked. Doan also brings leadership and a kill to win mentality, AK brings no leadership and a would rather party then win mentality.

The Hawks need a Doan, they don't need an AK.

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07-11-2012, 05:34 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Because AK played on Montreal for more than half the season...
Duh, completely forgot about that.

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07-11-2012, 05:34 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
If you dont think Doan is a MUCH better option than AK, there is no point of even discussing this with you.
Doan is a better player, not a better option for the Hawks. For a team like the Nucks, Yotes, or SJ, I understand the signing completely. The Hawks not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
There is a reason almost every team in the league is after him, and a reason why no one cares about AK.
Because he is the better player, the bigger name, and will sell a crap load of tickets just by virtue of being on the team. It still doesn't mean he is worth the contract he will be offered.

I think you all are misunderstand my point. I'm not saying AK is a better player than Doan. I'm not saying AK is a better teammate than Doan. I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to watch Doan play for the Hawks. What I am saying is that I don't Bowman to overpay for Doan, which I think he will have to for the Hawks to land him. I don't believe Doan is worth all the added risks (that will come with his contract) over someone like AK.

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07-11-2012, 05:35 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
When a guy like Toews is trying to get him on our team, and doesnt say a thing about Kostitsyn, that means a lot.

And..

Stats - Doan/AK
Goals - 22/16
Assists - 28/20
Hits - 205/112
SOG - 226/122
PPP - 14/2
BLKs - 29/9
+ all the other stats I could add

Add to all that Doan is the better teammate, while Kostitsyns goes out drinking the night before the most important game in Nashvilles history.
Those AK stats are those of yet another half-miler which likely has Stan's interest ... DOH!

There is no contest. The only objection to Doan should be his age. If he has stayed in shape over the years and with his style of play, I don't see that as an issue at all. As I said before, if one of our prospects (Saad or perhaps Morin or Beach) proves to be better in a few years, Doan is well equipped to take on the bottom 6 role, and do it quite well.

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07-11-2012, 05:39 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
The real question is what does AK bring to this team it needs?

He isn't physical, great he can be but he isn't, he isn't good defensively, not bad, the Hawks are filled with not bad, how about good. He doesn't go to the dirty areas to make plays, he isn't an agitator like Doan is, and that "heart and soul" intangelable you laugh at and mock is exactly what this team lacked. Doan also brings leadership and a kill to win mentality, AK brings no leadership and a would rather party then win mentality.

The Hawks need a Doan, they don't need an AK.
Exactly!!

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07-11-2012, 05:39 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
Doan is a better player, not a better option for the Hawks. For a team like the Nucks, Yotes, or SJ, I understand the signing completely. The Hawks not so much.



Because he is the better player, the bigger name, and will sell a crap load of tickets just by virtue of being on the team. It still doesn't mean he is worth the contract he will be offered.

I think you all are misunderstand my point. I'm not saying AK is a better player than Doan. I'm not saying AK is a better teammate than Doan. I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to watch Doan play for the Hawks. What I am saying is that I don't Bowman to overpay for Doan, which I think he will have to for the Hawks to land him. I don't believe Doan is worth all the added risks (that will come with his contract) over someone like AK.
That's a very good point. Doan, at 35, could start to get significantly worse by the year.. especially with the kind of game he plays. Now, he keeps himself in excellent condition, but that can only do so much for someone who's getting to be around 40.

Would you rather have Doan on a 4-year, 22-24M deal or have AK on a 1/2-year deal at 5-6M? (2.5-3M per)

EDIT: Doan will be 36 on October 10th.. so, basically at the time the season starts.

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07-11-2012, 05:54 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
That's a very good point. Doan, at 35, could start to get significantly worse by the year.. especially with the kind of game he plays. Now, he keeps himself in excellent condition, but that can only do so much for someone who's getting to be around 40.

Would you rather have Doan on a 4-year, 22-24M deal or have AK on a 1/2-year deal at 5-6M? (2.5-3M per)

EDIT: Doan will be 36 on October 10th.. so, basically at the time the season starts.
Doan!!!

Don't you get it. We need the real deal, and AK is not it. I don't care if he plays for minimum salary, he won't fill any gaps on this club to the extent we need. You'd think the acquisitions of the likes of Bruno, Morrison, Olesz, JO, Frolik would teach us that we can't go cheapo and expect tangible results. Have you ever thought that grabbing Doan would take a lot of pressure off of Toews who has to be "the guy" pretty much every game? Well it would and that's an intangible that could prove to be key.

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07-11-2012, 06:01 PM
  #168
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Umm, Toews isn't "the guy" every game.. or did Patrick Kane, Marian Hossa and Patrick Sharp completely fall of the face of the earth?

Doan is going to be 36 years old in October. 36. Does anyone here really think his body can hold up, playing the kind of game he does, for even 2 years? And then what? If he retires, you're stuck with the caphit (Which would be 4.5M-5.5M) because he's a 35+ player.

Like I said, I'd be happy if Doan signed here.. but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have some serious questions about how he'd be playing in year 2, 3 or 4 (if he makes it that far) if he's handed out that length of contract, which he would likely have to be to land him.

We have alot of propsects knocking on the door in Beach, Morin and J.Hayes that all bring size and varying degrees of grit/physical play.. I don't think Doan is as big a need as we think he is, or at least, he won't be by the 2nd year of his contract IMO.

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07-11-2012, 06:03 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Umm, Toews isn't "the guy" every game.. or did Patrick Kane, Marian Hossa and Patrick Sharp completely fall of the face of the earth?

Doan is going to be 36 years old in October. 36. Does anyone here really think his body can hold up, playing the kind of game he does, for even 2 years? And then what? If he retires, you're stuck with the caphit (Which would be 4.5M-5.5M) because he's a 35+ player.

Like I said, I'd be happy if Doan signed here.. but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have some serious questions about how he'd be playing in year 2, 3 or 4 (if he makes it that far) if he's handed out that length of contract, which he would likely have to be to land him.

We have alot of propsects knocking on the door in Beach, Morin and J.Hayes that all bring size and varying degrees of grit/physical play.. I don't think Doan is as big a need as we think he is, or at least, he won't be by the 2nd year of his contract IMO.
Don't think anyone is giving him a 4 year deal. 3 probably the max.

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07-11-2012, 06:07 PM
  #170
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Don't think anyone is giving him a 4 year deal. 3 probably the max.
IMO, it's term that will be the deal-breaker for Doan, not money. At the end of the day, the money's going to be roughly the same no matter who he ends up with, but it will be the term that lands him if he decides to leave Phoenix.

A 3-year deal is likely the starting point.

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07-11-2012, 06:08 PM
  #171
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I think people are overlooking the leadership aspect of Doan, this is a man who captained Canada on more then one occasion, he just won the Messier Leadership award, and he has a leadership we need.

Toews is an excellent captain but isn't the type of player to get in someones face and call them out for underperforming or not playing their all, Doan is. During the Hawks 9 game losing streak Doan would have been in the locker room getting at guys for not putting their heart and soul into the game and then would go out and lead by example. Willing to bet if we had Doan on this team that losing streak ends well before it gets to 9.

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07-11-2012, 06:10 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
IMO, it's term that will be the deal-breaker for Doan, not money. At the end of the day, the money's going to be roughly the same no matter who he ends up with, but it will be the term that lands him if he decides to leave Phoenix.

A 3-year deal is likely the starting point.
I agree. Whitney got himself 2 years and 9 million. I think somebody is going to have to offer at least 18 million in a contract. I'm guessing 4x5-ish unless he's partial to geography. Just too many bidders for him, assuming he leaves PHX.

Maybe he takes 2X5.5 for the chance to win.

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07-11-2012, 06:11 PM
  #173
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Doan and Toews are very simular leaders. Both very serious, passionate players and both players lead by example more than lead by making speeches/rants/getting in guys faces. I don't think Doan is the kind of guy to get in any of his teammates faces.. but I don't doubt that he speaks up when he needs to, just like Toews.

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07-11-2012, 08:05 PM
  #174
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The thing about Doan is even if he starts to decline physically after 2-3 years, you can start to limit his minutes somewhat because guys like Saad, McNeill, etc. should be on the roster and playing significant roles by then.

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07-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by CPHawksFan View Post
The thing about Doan is even if he starts to decline physically after 2-3 years, you can start to limit his minutes somewhat because guys like Saad, McNeill, etc. should be on the roster and playing significant roles by then.
The problem is that he'll have a very large caphit.. and, if his minutes are getting seriously decreased because he's getting worn down as a player, he'd more than likely retire.. in that case, Chicago would be stuck with whatever Doan's caphit would be on the cap in dead weight.

Like I said, I'm definately not against signing Doan.. but there are risks and it may not be worth it with the players in the system.

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