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Capitals Free Agency III (Capital Hillen Edition)

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:05 AM
  #726
CapsWolverinesUSA
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Holy over reactions batman!

Who is a better hockey player, Alzner or Semin.

What is more important, 2nd line high skill wingers, or middle pair dmen. Do salaries around the league, generally support this? Or are they more... even.

Are the best players on your team generally the most important?
Middle pair, eh? Well, if we're going to wildly skew the picture, how about this:

What is more important, a formerly great head-case winger or an elite young top pairing defensemen? Who makes more money - Ryan Suter or Jonathan Cheechoo?

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:06 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Holy over reactions batman!

Who is a better hockey player, Alzner or Semin.

What is more important, 2nd line high skill wingers, or middle pair dmen. Do salaries around the league, generally support this? Or are they more... even.

Are the best players on your team generally the most important?
Alzner is a top-pairing defenceman who plays against other teams top players. 99% percent of people here would take him over Semin.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:27 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
Alzner is a top-pairing defenceman who plays against other teams top players. 99% percent of people here would take him over Semin.
i like sasha, and i want him to resign, but there is no way i would take sasha over alzner

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:33 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Holy over reactions batman!

Who is a better hockey player, Alzner or Semin.

What is more important, 2nd line high skill wingers, or middle pair dmen. Do salaries around the league, generally support this? Or are they more... even.

Are the best players on your team generally the most important?
It's hard to compare defensive defensemen and offensive forwards but looking at the current team composition, Alzner is massively more important to the Caps than Semin. With no Alzner, the 1LD is either Hamrlik or Schultz. Oof. Alzner skated 21 minutes a game, tops for LD on the team.

If one is a believer in advanced stats, Alzner was 9th in Corsi Rel QoC last year at ES. 9th. Unless one places massive importance on points, calling Alzner a middle pair dman is downright laughable. If Carlson hadn't take a massive dump on the ice during the regular season, their pairing would have been in the conversation for one of the top tandems in the league.

Semin might be a more skilled player, but I wouldn't say he's a better hockey player.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:35 AM
  #730
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I'd easily take Alzner over Semin.

Semin/Carlson is the bigger tossup with Carlson having way more "potential" to be important. But a dog ass Semin beats a dog ass Carlson.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:49 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Middle pair, eh? Well, if we're going to wildly skew the picture, how about this:

What is more important, a formerly great head-case winger or an elite young top pairing defensemen? Who makes more money - Ryan Suter or Jonathan Cheechoo?
Semin - second line eh?

I think he would be on the top line of many other teams. What proof do you have he is a "head case"?

Middle pair eh.... um yeah indeed. If Alzner is not a middle pair Dman right now, why are some clamoring for a 1LD? "Top pair" dmen play all situations in my book. Top pair isnt always defined by stats.

Apples to oranges, but the over reactions are entertaining to get us through the long summer.

Its funny how some players can do no wrong, and the mass of fans rushing to defend them. I probably like Alzner better than you do, ha imagine that.

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07-06-2012, 09:54 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Semin - second line eh?

I think he would be on the top line of many other teams. What proof do you have he is a "head case"?

Middle pair eh.... um yeah indeed. If Alzner is not a middle pair Dman right now, why are some clamoring for a 1LD? "Top pair" dmen play all situations in my book. Top pair isnt always defined by stats.

Apples to oranges, but the over reactions are entertaining to get us through the long summer.

Its funny how some players can do no wrong, and the mass of fans rushing to defend them. I probably like Alzner better than you do, ha imagine that.

They're scrambling because after Alzner there is a steep decline in talent at that position.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:04 AM
  #733
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I just can't buy into NBTW's idea that this is a better Caps team than the one eliminated by the Rags. Not yet, not today.

There's no depth right now. Any injuries would decimate the team as it's currently put together. That's why I expect 1-2 more depth pickups or trades to happen before opening night.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:07 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
The current Caps + Alexander Semin are not a SCF team either, of course. This team's defense is woefully thin on May hockey players.
Not so sure I agree with that. Its a young defense, but I think Hamrlik is considered a "May hockey player", as is Carlson and Alzner. Erskine has done well in the playoffs too.

Green is a huge question mark, as is Orlov. But that isnt a fair assessment you made, in my book.

And the Caps "as is" + Semin is better than the Caps "as is". If we fill Semin's salary slot with someone else, then I reserve the right to change my perspective.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:09 AM
  #735
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stat wise u can replace alzner on free agency better than semin, it deosnt even matter if the caps play runandgun or defense, semin can play both. its like on draft day, u go for talent before need, after that its up to the gm to manage the roster, if i remember the caps played without any shut down pair and with 3oremore and did ok actually they didn't need to worry about missing the playoffs till the last game of the season. of course semin had a bad year so did ovy and the rest of the team...if ovechkin is a 60point player it doesnt matter who the first paring d-man or 2second line winger is anyway.

just in case they go off again i want to have a ppg player on the second line.

all ur love for carlzner is because u followed them closely for years, on the other side we have the mediashy stereotype russian and yet he brings more to the table than both of them.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:11 AM
  #736
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Come on, Erskine can't even get a sweater and although he played well in the postseason, Hamrlik is older than dirt.

Carlson and Alzner are it for playoff (well) performing D. The Caps ARE woefully thin.

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07-06-2012, 10:11 AM
  #737
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I just can't buy into NBTW's idea that this is a better Caps team than the one eliminated by the Rags. Not yet, not today.

There's no depth right now. Any injuries would decimate the team as it's currently put together. That's why I expect 1-2 more depth pickups or trades to happen before opening night.
If Green and Backstrom are 100%...the addition of Ribiero...the subtraction of Semin, Knuble, and Wideman.

I dunno. Its close.

But yeah, they are a few injuries away from being really ******.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:12 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by kmart View Post
stat wise u can replace alzner on free agency better than semin, it deosnt even matter if the caps play runandgun or defense, semin can play both. its like on draft day, u go for talent before need, after that its up to the gm to manage the roster, if i remember the caps played without any shut down pair and with 3oremore and did ok actually they didn't need to worry about missing the playoffs till the last game of the season. of course semin had a bad year so did ovy and the rest of the team...if ovechkin is a 60point player it doesnt matter who the first paring d-man or 2second line winger is anyway.

just in case they go off again i want to have a ppg player on the second line.

all ur love for carlzner is because u followed them closely for years, on the other side we have the mediashy stereotype russian and yet he brings more to the table than both of them.
No, all of our love for Carlzner is that they've been absurdly good in the postseason considering their age. They're a bonafide shutdown pair in the playoffs, and Alzner is the older one at 23.

Spare me the Russian persecution complex.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:13 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by kmart View Post
stat wise u can replace alzner on free agency better than semin, it deosnt even matter if the caps play runandgun or defense, semin can play both.
...but Alzner isn't important because of his stats.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:14 AM
  #740
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So the Caps right now have 7 top 6 forwards.
Ovechkin
Backstrom
Ribeiro
Brouwer (his "20" goals are the Semin replacement plan, so he's obviously top 6)
Laich
Perreault (part of the elite forward of the team, they see him on the top lines)
Johansson (they see him with Backstrom)

Laich and Brouwer are the only "net presence" guys. Johansson has his "chemistry with Backstrom". Who gets pushed out?

I'd put Laich on the table for a 1b/2a LD. Laich + Schultz + possible pick should be plenty of value, plus a replacement LD for the trade partner.

Caps will probably roll with this roster and push Laich to 3C and Beagle to 4C.


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Old
07-06-2012, 10:17 AM
  #741
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That's why I expect 1-2 more depth pickups or trades to happen before opening night.
I'm waiting for the Brunette and Sturm signings too.

Former Caps(like every ****ing inbred decision this team seems to make)? Check.
GRINDERS(for NBTW)? Check.
Cheap as ****(like the other FAs)? Check.
Should be playing in the minors/Europe or scratched(like the other FAs)? Check.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:20 AM
  #742
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They're scrambling because after Alzner there is a steep decline in talent at that position.
I never stated who I thought was more important nor better, I merely asked.

I love Alzner and hope he develops the offensive side of his game to become a true top pair LD in this league. But the powers never let him get a sniff on the PP which pisses me off. I have envisioned him with Green since drafted but meet resistance when I suggest it because he played with Carlson in Hershey. As Benny Hill would say... big.... deal.

Some here wanted Suter. Was that a statement that posters didn't think Alzner could be our 1LD for the next decade? No, they just thought it was important to get better there.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:21 AM
  #743
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I'd put Laich on the table for a 1b/2a LD. Laich + Schultz + possible pick should be plenty of value, plus a replacement LD for the trade partner.
I never understand this.

We are so eager and willing to get rid of Schultz/Like/Ward...but seem to think we will get considerable value for them. If they are so valuable, why are they also so easily expendable?

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07-06-2012, 10:22 AM
  #744
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This team could really use Kuznetsov. Just sayin'.

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07-06-2012, 10:23 AM
  #745
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
...but Alzner isn't important because of his stats.
of course that was not my point, u know that... alzner is the best d-man the caps have and still its easier to replace him than a close to ppg player like semin.

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07-06-2012, 10:25 AM
  #746
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As good as Alzner looked in the playoffs Hamrlik was about as effective with a partner who didn't play as well as Alzner's partner. Alzner's play at this point is comparable to Stuart, Salvador, Jackman. Guys who went for under 4 in free agency. Perhaps a bit better, though he'll surpass them by a ton pretty soon.

Aside from Parise there's no one on Semin's level available. I assume that's what he was referring to.

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07-06-2012, 10:26 AM
  #747
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of course that was not my point, u know that... alzner is the best d-man the caps have and still its easier to replace him than a close to ppg player like semin.
As someone who doesn't blind bash Semin because Semin wouldn't sign my kid's jersey after a game or read to him some Dr. Seuss books at the library...

I disagree. A steady Eddy defenseman is a lot harder to replace than a scorer.

I'd personally rather have a...

+50 DMan + 60 pt Winger

than

+0 DMan + 80 pt Winger

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:27 AM
  #748
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I never understand this.

We are so eager and willing to get rid of Schultz/Like/Ward...but seem to think we will get considerable value for them. If they are so valuable, why are they also so easily expendable?
Why do you think I'm "eager" to get rid of them? I just don't want to go into the season with Alzner/Hamrlik/Schultz as my 3 LD. Laich is the only movable roster forward asset. If I'm upgrading LD, Schultz at 2.75 in the press box is silly, so I'd want to send him back as part of the deal. And I never even mentioned Ward.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:30 AM
  #749
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Why do you think I'm "eager" to get rid of them? I just don't want to go into the season with Alzner/Hamrlik/Schultz as my 3 LD. Laich is the only movable roster forward asset. If I'm upgrading LD, Schultz at 2.75 in the press box is silly, so I'd want to send him back as part of the deal. And I never even mentioned Ward.
This isn't aimed at just you.

It's that literally every proposal is centered around Laich/Schultz/Ward and somehow we're able to catch a decent sized fish with that bait. I personally don't see it. If we're "win now" Mojo/Kuz are the good chum.

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07-06-2012, 10:31 AM
  #750
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I don't think the current Caps are a SCF team. I think they're a slightly improved version of a very flawed team from last year.

That said, they showed a lot of playoff heart last season and it wouldn't surprise me if they progress further this year with the current lineup, assuming that the coaching is better (which we don't have any idea about at this point).

I still think, as I've been saying for a few years, that they desperately need a 1LD (or at least a very competent 2LD) to pair with Green. His accomplishments are incredible when you consider the crap he's been partnered with. If they can get him a steady, reliable partner that can also move the puck, the holes in his game will be much more effectively patched and every aspect of this team will improve.

I'm decidedly anti-Semin. Not because I dislike skilled players, don't want more scoring, or want more grinders, as some like to absurdly purport, but because I don't think the flashes of offensive skill we see are worth the headaches he causes.

I would like to see the team add some scoring depth. I'm not against it by any stretch. But I'd much rather them go in a new direction. Stalberg, Ryder, Setoguchi, Morrow or Grabner on the trade market would be good additions, and wouldn't cost the assets to acquire that some higher-end additions (Marleau, Ryan) would.

Let's say, after extending Green and Carlson, the team has cap space in the $10M-$11M range. Let's also assume that they want to bank some space (maybe $1M-$2M or so) for possible deadline additions. I'd MUCH rather gets a $6M defensman and a $3M winger than the other way around. And if they add just one big ticket player, it should be, without a doubt, a defensman in my mind. It's mystifying to me that people are so adamant about the 2nd line winger issue, yet say very little about the top pairing defenseman issue.
you are right on all counts, and while I understand the Anti-Semin thing, I dont fully agree with it. He has his warts, and his salary last year was not in range with his production. All of that is true.

I still think he's a bit of a lost soul, and that he needs nurturing. Sounds a little pansyish, but thats Semin. With the correct coach (Oates?) he may flourish again. Then again, he may not. Thats why all else failing (some of the guys you've mentioned I like, as I also liked some that have already signed, which is MY frustration), I like Semin on another one year deal. See what Oates can do with him. If it craps the bed, you know it isnt working and you trade him for salary coming back.

This team needs to add the 10m in salary to have a chance to win it all. How they do so if obviusly up for debate. I'd rather they moved away from Semin too, but it doesnt seem likely now that GMGM has sidestepped the early FA period. I dont want to lose more cupboard assets to get that salary either, so my point on Semin *now* makes sense. He didnt on June 30th, but now on July 6th, he does.

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