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7 Game Series 84 Oilers or 02 Wings (All Players in Prime)

View Poll Results: Who Wins?
Oilers in 4 20 8.40%
Wings in 4 10 4.20%
Oilers in 5 43 18.07%
Wings in 5 31 13.03%
Oilers in 6 35 14.71%
Wings in 6 58 24.37%
Oilers in 7 9 3.78%
Wings in 7 32 13.45%
Voters: 238. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-04-2012, 01:04 PM
  #1
IggyFan12
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7 Game Series 84 Oilers or 02 Wings (All Players in Prime)

My question is who wins in a 7 game series and why between the 84 Oilers and the 02 Wings if every player was in their prime.

Oilers Roster:
Wayne Gretzky
Jari Kurri
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Glenn Anderson
Ken Linseman
Pat Hughes
Dave Hunter
Willy Lindstrom
Dave Semenko
Kevin McClelland
Randy Gregg
Kevin Lowe
Charlie Huddy
Dave Lumley
Lee Fogolin
Raimo Summanen
Don Jackson
Jaroslav Pouzar

Goalies:
Grant Fuhr
Andy Moog

Wings Roster:
Steve Yzerman
Brendan Shanahan
Sergei Fedorov
Brett Hull
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Tomas Holmstrom
Igor Larionov
Luc Robitaille
Darren McCarty
Pavel Datsyuk
Jiri Fischer
Kirk Maltby
Boyd Devereaux
Fredrik Olausson
Steve Duchesne
Kris Draper
Mathieu Dandenault
Uwe Krupp
Jiri Slegr
Jason Williams

Goalies:
Dominik Hasek
Manny Legace

Wings have more depth than the Oilers but the Oilers have Gretzky and Messier.

Forwards:
Edge: Wings. Oilers have Gretzky, Messier, Kurri and Anderson but the Wings have 7 great forwards in Yzerman, Shanahan, Federov, Datsyuk, Hull, Robatille and Larianov. The depth is just to much to match.

Defence:
Edge Oilers. Wings have Lidstrom and Chelios but the Oilers have Coffey and then Lowe and Huddy. Pretty even but I give a slight edge to the Oilers.

Goalies:
Edge: Wings. Hasek over Fuhr at their very best. Fuhr is a great goalie but Hasek is a top 3 goalie all time.

I think it would be close but in the end I would have to say the 02 Wings take it in 7. The reason is Hasek in net for the Wings swings it to their favor and the depth at forward for the Wings is something we may never see again.

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07-04-2012, 01:14 PM
  #2
norrisnick
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Fully prime, you'd have to go with the Wings. 30+ minute multiple Norris winners on separate pairings. 4 Selke winners down the middle. And a 6-time Vezina/2-time Hart winner between the pipes. And no shortage of offense on the wings either with a trio of 600+ goal scorers (to go along with 600+ Yzerman and nearly 500 goal Fedorov).

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Old
07-04-2012, 01:15 PM
  #3
JetsFanForever
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I voted for the Oilers in 5 for the simple reason of Gretzky in his prime. End of story.

There was and maybe never will be another one like him. With the supporting cast around him, I believe that only the late 70's Habs could beat them in a series.

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07-04-2012, 01:17 PM
  #4
kmad
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Wings easily.

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07-04-2012, 01:20 PM
  #5
IggyFan12
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Another reason I think Wings would win is the fact that they could have a shut down line of Federov, Datsyuk and Larianov with Lidstrom and Chelios and Hasek in net. Then they would still have forwards of Yzerman, Shanahan, Hull and Robataille which the Oilers couldn't match.

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Old
07-04-2012, 01:23 PM
  #6
Odinson
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Every player in their primes? The Wings take it.

The 84 Oilers vs the 02 Wings as the teams were at that time is a different story.

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07-04-2012, 01:27 PM
  #7
BraveCanadian
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If every player is in their primes then I would have to say probably the Wings.

If it was as they were in reality then I would say probably the Oilers.

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Old
07-04-2012, 01:36 PM
  #8
Crease
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Fun exercise. I say Wings in 6.

Hasek v. Gretzky in their primes would have been very interesting to see.

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Old
07-04-2012, 02:10 PM
  #9
PhillyBluesFan
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I would take the 02 Wings and they don't even need to be in their prime

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07-04-2012, 02:13 PM
  #10
King Woodballs
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anyone not voting for the 84 oilers... never watched the 84 oilers.

they would beat the wings quite easily actually

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07-04-2012, 02:24 PM
  #11
GuineaPig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
anyone not voting for the 84 oilers... never watched the 84 oilers.

they would beat the wings quite easily actually
I think you missed the central question.

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07-04-2012, 02:35 PM
  #12
reckoning
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Detroit would have a huge edge in coaching. Bowman would eat Sather for lunch.

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07-04-2012, 03:07 PM
  #13
norrisnick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
anyone not voting for the 84 oilers... never watched the 84 oilers.

they would beat the wings quite easily actually
Very roughly spitballed best seasons together.

'93 Robitaille - '89 Yzerman - '91 Hull
'88 Larionov - '94 Fedorov - '94 Shanahan
'06 Holmstrom - '08 Datsyuk - '06 Williams (the blacksheep of the forwards IMO)
'04 Maltby - '04 Draper - '97 McCarty

'03 Lidstrom - '89 Olausson
'06 Fischer (he was on a tear before his heart ailment) - '89 Chelios
'00 Slegr - '89 Duchesne

'98 Hasek

Lidstrom was the only player that arguably was at his best in '02.

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Old
07-04-2012, 09:19 PM
  #14
blogofmike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Very roughly spitballed best seasons together.

'93 Robitaille - '89 Yzerman - '91 Hull
'88 Larionov - '94 Fedorov - '94 Shanahan
'06 Holmstrom - '08 Datsyuk - '06 Williams (the blacksheep of the forwards IMO)
'04 Maltby - '04 Draper - '97 McCarty

'03 Lidstrom - '89 Olausson
'06 Fischer (he was on a tear before his heart ailment) - '89 Chelios
'00 Slegr - '89 Duchesne

'98 Hasek

Lidstrom was the only player that arguably was at his best in '02.
Many of those guys in those years did well in the season, were expected to do very well in the playoffs, and then disappointed. Yzerman scored 10 points in 6 games but was a -7(!) in the playoffs.

If Hull and Yzerman can't do well against the 89 Hawks and 91 Stars, how do they fare against Conn Smythe-worthy lines? Even Fedorov's 94 season saw him become a minus player agaist the 8th seeded Sharks.

The Oilers at their optimum level are going to give you some of the best playoff performances ever. A lot of the optimal Wings are early round playoff exits.

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07-04-2012, 11:01 PM
  #15
Big Phil
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I picked the Oilers in 7 games. By the way, even the mere idea of picking anyone but the Oilers straight team against straight team is insane. The 2002 Red Wings are an all-time great team, but are more in the mix with the 2001 Avs, 1990s Pens, and 1975 Flyers. The 1984 Oilers were pretty unstoppable.

But if we want to cheat a bit and give the Wings the advantage of having all players in their primes then it gets tricky. It would be a close series. You've got Hull and Yzerman as insanely high scoring players. Fedorov is a two way Hart threat. Shanny and Robitaille can score on the wings and Datsyuk is your checker. Chelios and Lidstrom make a sexy pair on defense. Hasek in net is scary as well.

But my gut as always tells me not to bet against Gretzky. I think Coffey had a better season than either one of Lidstrom or Chelios. Gretzky by far has the best season by a forward followed by Kurri as arguably the next best. Messier at his best (say 1990) is probably better than any Wing either. Fuhr is a clutch goalie, and Sather was a great coach who would know how to get the best out of the team.

Still say Oilers in 7 with all players in their primes.

If it is just a straight up comparison with an old Wings team in 2002, I would be surprised if the Wings make it to 6 games

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Old
07-04-2012, 11:08 PM
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I'd take the 2000-2001 Colorado Avalanche



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Old
07-05-2012, 01:20 AM
  #17
Cyborg Yzerman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I picked the Oilers in 7 games. By the way, even the mere idea of picking anyone but the Oilers straight team against straight team is insane. The 2002 Red Wings are an all-time great team, but are more in the mix with the 2001 Avs, 1990s Pens, and 1975 Flyers. The 1984 Oilers were pretty unstoppable.

But if we want to cheat a bit and give the Wings the advantage of having all players in their primes then it gets tricky. It would be a close series. You've got Hull and Yzerman as insanely high scoring players. Fedorov is a two way Hart threat. Shanny and Robitaille can score on the wings and Datsyuk is your checker. Chelios and Lidstrom make a sexy pair on defense. Hasek in net is scary as well.

But my gut as always tells me not to bet against Gretzky. I think Coffey had a better season than either one of Lidstrom or Chelios. Gretzky by far has the best season by a forward followed by Kurri as arguably the next best. Messier at his best (say 1990) is probably better than any Wing either. Fuhr is a clutch goalie, and Sather was a great coach who would know how to get the best out of the team.

Still say Oilers in 7 with all players in their primes.

If it is just a straight up comparison with an old Wings team in 2002, I would be surprised if the Wings make it to 6 games
Undoubtedly, the actual 2002 wings vs. the 1984 Oilers would be very one sided, but something tells me if you take the 2002 Wings and have each individual player in their prime, that it'd be enough to beat the Oilers.

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Old
07-05-2012, 03:36 AM
  #18
silkyjohnson50
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Originally Posted by blogofmike View Post
Many of those guys in those years did well in the season, were expected to do very well in the playoffs, and then disappointed. Yzerman scored 10 points in 6 games but was a -7(!) in the playoffs.

If Hull and Yzerman can't do well against the 89 Hawks and 91 Stars, how do they fare against Conn Smythe-worthy lines? Even Fedorov's 94 season saw him become a minus player agaist the 8th seeded Sharks.

The Oilers at their optimum level are going to give you some of the best playoff performances ever. A lot of the optimal Wings are early round playoff exits.
I think you're looking for something that's not there. I have to imagine the OP i simply saying if each Detroit player was at their best. Maybe it'd be easier to look at it as their playoff/international primes, since we are making the comparison in the sense of a 7-game series:

Hasek's Nagano performance.
Holmstrom's 19 pt postseason in 98.
Zetterberg's Conn Smythe.
Yzerman's Conn Smythe.
Fedorov's 97 postseason where he deserved the Smythe.
Lidstrom's 98 or 02 postseason.
Datsyuk's 08 or 11 postseason.
And on and on...

As amazing as Gretzky, Messier, and Coffey were, IMO Detroit would simply have way too much depth using the prime format.

Not only would Detroit be a ridicuously good puck possession team, to the extent that Edmonton had never seen, but they'd have defensive gems (Lidstrom, Chelios, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper) that just might be able to contain the Great One. Not to mention the ultimate x-factor in Hasek when all else fails.

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Old
07-05-2012, 07:17 AM
  #19
blogofmike
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
I think you're looking for something that's not there. I have to imagine the OP i simply saying if each Detroit player was at their best. Maybe it'd be easier to look at it as their playoff/international primes, since we are making the comparison in the sense of a 7-game series:

Hasek's Nagano performance.
Holmstrom's 19 pt postseason in 98.
Zetterberg's Conn Smythe.
Yzerman's Conn Smythe.
Fedorov's 97 postseason where he deserved the Smythe.
Lidstrom's 98 or 02 postseason.
Datsyuk's 08 or 11 postseason.
And on and on...

As amazing as Gretzky, Messier, and Coffey were, IMO Detroit would simply have way too much depth using the prime format.

Not only would Detroit be a ridicuously good puck possession team, to the extent that Edmonton had never seen, but they'd have defensive gems (Lidstrom, Chelios, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper) that just might be able to contain the Great One. Not to mention the ultimate x-factor in Hasek when all else fails.
Gotcha. Wings fail to outscore Avs at ES with 97 Fedorov on the ice, therefore they can surely contain/outscore Gretzky's 47 point +28 year, Coffey's 37 point +26 year and Kurri's 19 goal +24 season. And after preventing the Green Unit from getting a single shot on goal for 1:26, Mark Messier would crumble before the puck possession skills of people that didn't practice puck possession together for 300 days a year.

02 Lidstrom went -4 against the Blues
08 Datsyuk was a +1 vs the Pens with very little offense
98 Yzerman was a minus player against the Phoenix Coyotes. Overall I'm less critical because of his offense on the PP, but just saying his defense may be overrated.
98 Hasek is legitimately scary, but even then I don't know how that holds up over a 7 game series with a team that isn't as dedicated to defense as the 1998 Czechs. That year Hasek was good but Olaf Kolzig was clearly better in the playoffs.

I think the defensive reputations of the Peak Wings players overshadow their actual performances. They could give up more goals than they scored against fairly average opposition. Gretzky-Kurri-Coffey-Messier had Smythe-worthy efforts and outscored the opposition by a healthy margin, even the teams like 84 Isles, 85 Flyers or 88 Flames/Bruins that were better than the teams that outscored these peak Wings.

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Old
07-05-2012, 09:11 AM
  #20
blogofmike
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Detroit would have a huge edge in coaching. Bowman would eat Sather for lunch.
Yes. That is why there's a thread on HOH asking why the Oilers didn't win more in the 1980s and why their talent-laden teams frequently lost earlier than expected.

Oh wait that's the Wings and the 90s.

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07-05-2012, 09:35 AM
  #21
Dalton
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Oilers in 2 but that's not an option so I'll take Oilers in 4.

(MOD)


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 07-05-2012 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Flaming
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07-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #22
octopi
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The Oilers have the edge on offense, but the Wings would own the D.
Remember that there was a huge difference between the way the game was played in the early 80's and 2002.

I think the Wings probably win this because the team that knows how to play defense usually does. It could very well look like the bizarre Pens/Philly series we just saw.

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07-05-2012, 11:08 AM
  #23
opivy
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Old time hockey coach?!

The big difference is that the 84 oilers, most of those guys WERE in their primes, 02 Wings, many were past their primes or not yet to them.

Pound for pound, prime for prime the Wings have just too much for the Oil.

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07-05-2012, 11:18 AM
  #24
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As great as the 84 Oilers were, I just can't bet against a prime-level Hasek. I'm still boggled that he was able to take that ragtag Sabres team all the way to the finals.

Plus to really pick one or the other you'd have to know which style of play and refs there would be. Would the games be played in the wide open 80s style with the single ref let-them-play mantra? Or would it be more of the "dead puck" era clutch-and-grab heavy defensive clog it up style? I don't think the Oilers would do well if the style was like it was in 2002.

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07-05-2012, 11:37 AM
  #25
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I don't think there's been a defenseman, defensive system, or defensive team ever constructed that would be capable of stopping Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson, Messier and Coffey in their primes.

I'd never bet against that bunch.

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