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7 Game Series 84 Oilers or 02 Wings (All Players in Prime)

View Poll Results: Who Wins?
Oilers in 4 20 8.40%
Wings in 4 10 4.20%
Oilers in 5 43 18.07%
Wings in 5 31 13.03%
Oilers in 6 35 14.71%
Wings in 6 58 24.37%
Oilers in 7 9 3.78%
Wings in 7 32 13.45%
Voters: 238. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:59 AM
  #26
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
As great as the 84 Oilers were, I just can't bet against a prime-level Hasek. I'm still boggled that he was able to take that ragtag Sabres team all the way to the finals.

Plus to really pick one or the other you'd have to know which style of play and refs there would be. Would the games be played in the wide open 80s style with the single ref let-them-play mantra? Or would it be more of the "dead puck" era clutch-and-grab heavy defensive clog it up style? I don't think the Oilers would do well if the style was like it was in 2002.

The fact that the ragtag team scored over 3 goals per game through the first 3 rounds surely helped


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 07-05-2012 at 12:23 PM.
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Old
07-05-2012, 12:21 PM
  #27
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Detroit in 5. A much deeper team with a better defence, a better goalie and a better coach.


Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
I don't think there's been a defenseman, defensive system, or defensive team ever constructed that would be capable of stopping Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson, Messier and Coffey in their primes.

I'd never bet against that bunch.
Oh how about the Islanders in 1983 or the Flames in 1986? It's not like the Gretzky's Oilers were invincible.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:28 PM
  #28
tombombadil
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Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Detroit in 5. A much deeper team with a better defence, a better goalie and a better coach.




Oh how about the Islanders in 1983 or the Flames in 1986? It's not like the Gretzky's Oilers were invincible.
or LA in 82.

Some posters on here are like the SNL armchair Bears fans sketch. Ask any question, and the answer is, "Da Great One." He's like Chuck Norris.

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07-05-2012, 12:51 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
I don't think there's been a defenseman, defensive system, or defensive team ever constructed that would be capable of stopping Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson, Messier and Coffey in their primes.

I'd never bet against that bunch.
This pretty much. Gretzky had guys that did nothing... and I mean nothing but follow him around the ice trying to stop him from making a play. Didn't work.

I think the series is really close. Detroit has depth. Edmonton has the better high end players.

But anyone pulling the shutdown card with Detroit players never watched the great one at work.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:55 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Detroit in 5. A much deeper team with a better defence, a better goalie and a better coach.




Oh how about the Islanders in 1983 or the Flames in 1986? It's not like the Gretzky's Oilers were invincible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombombadil View Post
or LA in 82.

Some posters on here are like the SNL armchair Bears fans sketch. Ask any question, and the answer is, "Da Great One." He's like Chuck Norris.
Oilers in 82 and 83 had not hit their peak as a team.

As for 1986, Steve Smith just called and would like to talk about that year.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:56 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Detroit in 5. A much deeper team with a better defence, a better goalie and a better coach.




Oh how about the Islanders in 1983 or the Flames in 1986? It's not like the Gretzky's Oilers were invincible.
There's two things those teams have that the detroit teams didn't. Speed and tough as nails. That Detroit team is butter soft and the overall team speed is lacking.

You don't beat the 80's Oilers in a game of skill.

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07-05-2012, 12:58 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Oh how about the Islanders in 1983 or the Flames in 1986? It's not like the Gretzky's Oilers were invincible.
But that's without prime Mark Messier eating up his own 22-24 minutes per game, playing the caliber of hockey he did from 1990-1996. All of a sudden, it's not just Gretzky's Oilers; they have the only two skaters between both teams to have won multiple Hart Trophies. It's not as if every one of the Oilers peaked in 1984. Fuhr had his best playoff (.910 when the average was .873), but Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Anderson, and Kurri all had better runs. Put them all together at their best, and it's nothing resembling the 1983 or 1986 Oilers.

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Old
07-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #33
Hawkey Town 18
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The only clear advantage I see for Edmonton is top-end forwards due to having Gretzky and Messier. Detroit has a clear advantage in top-end defense, goaltending, and forward depth.

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07-05-2012, 01:11 PM
  #34
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Edmonton's #1 PP vs Detroit's #1 PK is insane

Anderson - Messier - Kurri - Gretzky* - Coffey

Vs

Yzerman - Draper - Lidstrom - Chelios

* Gretzky played point in LA, right?

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Old
07-05-2012, 01:38 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsFanForever View Post
Oilers in 82 and 83 had not hit their peak as a team.
And it still took a dynasty-level Islanders team in 83 to beat them. They smoked everyone else they faced.

Quote:
As for 1986, Steve Smith just called and would like to talk about that year.
No matter how much time goes by, I still think that Flames/Oilers 86 series remains the biggest fluke upset in NHL history.

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07-05-2012, 02:09 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
And it still took a dynasty-level Islanders team in 83 to beat them. They smoked everyone else they faced.


No matter how much time goes by, I still think that Flames/Oilers 86 series remains the biggest fluke upset in NHL history.
An no matter how much time goes by, I still chuckle when I think of Smith putting the puck in. As a lifelong Jets fan I naturally hated the Oilers (especially in the 80's when we had pretty good teams as well), so thinking back to that series and that play always makes me laugh.


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Old
07-05-2012, 08:46 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi View Post
The Oilers have the edge on offense, but the Wings would own the D.
Remember that there was a huge difference between the way the game was played in the early 80's and 2002.

I think the Wings probably win this because the team that knows how to play defense usually does. It could very well look like the bizarre Pens/Philly series we just saw.
The most underrated quality of the Oilers is that when push came to shove they were strong defensively. During the regular season, the odd 10-8 game? Maybe not. But buckle things down and play the Flyers in 1987 and they do well. Have Messier shut down Trottier in 1984 and it happens. So yeah I think the Oilers would manage alright.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
There's two things those teams have that the detroit teams didn't. Speed and tough as nails. That Detroit team is butter soft and the overall team speed is lacking.

You don't beat the 80's Oilers in a game of skill.
That's the thing not mentioned yet. The Oilers are going to play a relentless attack. The Wings rarely had to play that type of game. Yzerman would be able to compete with that kind of style but how do the others fare? Fedorov has the speed for sure but again, how often did these Wings have to stop anyone near a prime Gretzky? The Wings never even faced Lemieux, or Jagr. The best forwards the Wings faced were Sakic, Forsberg, Modano and Lindros. They never had an answer win or lose for Forsberg. Heck, Lidstrom used to always get owned by him. Sakic had some good success against them too. Modano was more or less contained and Lindros was too but as history has shown us Lindros is not a player known for his clutch play.

Can you imagine Gretzky doing his thing on the ice with a trailer like Coffey in there all the while knowing that a defensively responsible Kurri has his back? Yikes.

Sorry, still take the Oilers in 7 games even if all the Wings are in their primes. Another thing too, we can agree that Hasek beats Fuhr overall, but in a pressure cooker of a game is Fuhr really a downgrade as history has shown us?

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07-05-2012, 09:06 PM
  #38
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you guys are crazy. look at the depth. I was around in the 80's, this is crazy.

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07-05-2012, 09:33 PM
  #39
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If the '84 Flames, who finished only two games over .500, could take the Oilers to 7 games, then why is it so unthinkable that the '02 Wings, who finished 30 games over .500, couldn't beat them?

The Oilers were great, but not as unbeatable as some think.

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Old
07-05-2012, 09:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
If the '84 Flames, who finished only two games over .500, could take the Oilers to 7 games, then why is it so unthinkable that the '02 Wings, who finished 30 games over .500, couldn't beat them?

The Oilers were great, but not as unbeatable as some think.
And you forgot to mention that 2002 Detroit gets to have their entire lineup in their prime years.

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07-05-2012, 09:54 PM
  #41
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Players who are ither in the hall of fame or will likely make it

Oilers Roster:
Wayne Gretzky
Jari Kurri
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Glenn Anderson
Grant Fuhr


Wings Roster:
Steve Yzerman
Brett Hull
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Igor Larionov - if he played his entire career in the NHL he'd likely be a hall of famer


Goalies:
Dominik Hasek



I guess it's closer than I thought. It's hard to project how that wings team would gel because you're basically taking past and future players and putting the on that 2002 team. The 84 oilers on the other hand were mostly in their prime at the time. Call me crazy but I'd actually take Fuhr in his prime over Hasek. Fuhr had a penchant his entire career of always coming up huge when needed and did perform heroics on that team with very little defense. His entire career he never had a bad playoff. Do you realize that Fuhr only lost two first round playoff series and both were to the eventual champs (1989 flames and 1997 Wings).

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Old
07-05-2012, 10:22 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green lantern View Post
Players who are ither in the hall of fame or will likely make it

Oilers Roster:
Wayne Gretzky
Jari Kurri
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Glenn Anderson
Grant Fuhr


Wings Roster:
Steve Yzerman
Brett Hull
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Igor Larionov - if he played his entire career in the NHL he'd likely be a hall of famer


Goalies:
Dominik Hasek



I guess it's closer than I thought. It's hard to project how that wings team would gel because you're basically taking past and future players and putting the on that 2002 team. The 84 oilers on the other hand were mostly in their prime at the time. Call me crazy but I'd actually take Fuhr in his prime over Hasek. Fuhr had a penchant his entire career of always coming up huge when needed and did perform heroics on that team with very little defense. His entire career he never had a bad playoff. Do you realize that Fuhr only lost two first round playoff series and both were to the eventual champs (1989 flames and 1997 Wings).
Yes, on paper it looks close in terms of number of hall of famers, but add up the career point totals of all said hall of fame players on each team, and behold the staggering difference....

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07-05-2012, 10:32 PM
  #43
silkyjohnson50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green lantern View Post
Players who are ither in the hall of fame or will likely make it

Oilers Roster:
Wayne Gretzky
Jari Kurri
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Glenn Anderson
Grant Fuhr


Wings Roster:
Steve Yzerman
Brett Hull
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Igor Larionov - if he played his entire career in the NHL he'd likely be a hall of famer


Goalies:
Dominik Hasek



I guess it's closer than I thought. It's hard to project how that wings team would gel because you're basically taking past and future players and putting the on that 2002 team. The 84 oilers on the other hand were mostly in their prime at the time. Call me crazy but I'd actually take Fuhr in his prime over Hasek. Fuhr had a penchant his entire career of always coming up huge when needed and did perform heroics on that team with very little defense. His entire career he never had a bad playoff. Do you realize that Fuhr only lost two first round playoff series and both were to the eventual champs (1989 flames and 1997 Wings).
Fedorov and Shanahan will both be in the HOF, guarentee it.

Datsyuk with a couple more really good yrs has a shot.

Edit: I almost forgot Robitaille.


Last edited by silkyjohnson50: 07-05-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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07-05-2012, 10:35 PM
  #44
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looking for all seven games

did anyone tape that 1984 seven series between the flames/oilers?

not trying to sell anything...(mods)

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07-05-2012, 10:41 PM
  #45
tazzy19
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Even if we give Larionov 1000 points (about 400 more than he actually scored) to compensate for seasons he didn't play in the NHL, this is the difference in total points between the aforementioned hall of fame players:

Wayne Gretzky
Jari Kurri
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Glenn Anderson

8772 combined points (and that's not counting the all time leading scorer among goalies, Grant Fuhr )

Steve Yzerman
Brett Hull
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Igor Larionov

6236 combined points (if we include 400 extra imaginary points for Larionov)

That's about a 2500 point difference.
Conclusion: take out Wayne Gretzky, and it's pretty even

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07-05-2012, 10:44 PM
  #46
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Oilers 84 vs Wings 02; Oilers in 4. Replacing all players with prime versions is quite interesting.

Oilers gain no real benefit aside from a better Messier, while Wings gain a HUGE advantage due to a lot of their aging players.

Assuming all player stats remained the same as from their peak season here's what each teams top 6 looks like.

Semenko (12-15-27) Gretzky (52-163-215) Kurri (71-64-135)
Anderson (38-67-105) Messier (45-84-129) Hunter (22-26-48)

Robitaille (63-62-125) Yzerman (65-90-155) Hull (86-45-131)
Shanahan (52-50-102) Fedorov (56-64-120) Draper (24-16-40)


Oilers are largely average outside their top 6 (and realistically, besides Gretzky/Kurri/Anderson/Messier/Coffey they don't have any skaters to write home about), but those skaters are absolutely beastly.

The Wings have insane depth. You have a 155 point Yzerman, a 86 goal Hull, a Hart trophy Fedorov, a 63 goal Robitaille and that doesn't even touch Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Also, a d-pairing of a peak Lidstrom and Chelios is a brick wall. A peak Hasek could almost single handely shut down everyone besides Gretzky/Kurri/Coffey.

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07-05-2012, 10:51 PM
  #47
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
Even if we give Larionov 1000 points (about 400 more than he actually scored) to compensate for seasons he didn't play in the NHL, this is the difference in total points between the aforementioned hall of fame players:

Wayne Gretzky
Jari Kurri
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Glenn Anderson

8772 combined points (and that's not counting the all time leading scorer among goalies, Grant Fuhr )

Steve Yzerman
Brett Hull
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Igor Larionov

6236 combined points (if we include 400 extra imaginary points for Larionov)

That's about a 2500 point difference.
Conclusion: take out Wayne Gretzky, and it's pretty even
Not sure if serious....

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Old
07-05-2012, 10:53 PM
  #48
silkyjohnson50
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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Oilers 84 vs Wings 02; Oilers in 4. Replacing all players with prime versions is quite interesting.

Oilers gain no real benefit aside from a better Messier, while Wings gain a HUGE advantage due to a lot of their aging players.

Assuming all player stats remained the same as from their peak season here's what each teams top 6 looks like.

Semenko (12-15-27) Gretzky (52-163-215) Kurri (71-64-135)
Anderson (38-67-105) Messier (45-84-129) Hunter (22-26-48)

Robitaille (63-62-125) Yzerman (65-90-155) Hull (86-45-131)
Shanahan (52-50-102) Fedorov (56-64-120) Draper (24-16-40)
In what crazy world is Draper playing a top 6 role?!

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07-05-2012, 10:55 PM
  #49
TheDevilMadeMe
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In what crazy world is Draper playing a top 6 role?!
Heh, good question

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:15 AM
  #50
tazzy19
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Not sure if serious....
Yes, as far as the stats go over their full hall of fame careers, I'm quite serious. There's a huge difference. The difference is almost equal to Wayne Gretzky's entire career point total, which is saying a lot considering he's got about 3 hall of fame careers just by himself.

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