HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

So what now? (mod: how to respond to Suter/Parise signing by Wild)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-04-2012, 06:46 PM
  #51
WantonAbandon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Too much.
Way too much

WantonAbandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2012, 07:13 PM
  #52
Kegsey
#joeMONEY
 
Kegsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I agree. Certainly not favorites, but they'd be contenders, and anything can happen in the playoffs. It'd be nice if Murray and Clowe were traded for more speed though.



People say that about the Coyotes every year, but they still make the playoffs.
But this year they actually lost big pieces. Bryz was relatively big but Smith has outplayed him so...

Kegsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2012, 07:17 PM
  #53
hohosaregood
Drunken Snacking
 
hohosaregood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Their lineup next year is not that impressive.

Parise-Koivu-Heatley (definitely good top line)
Bouchard-Brodziak-Setoguchi (this is not that good)
Mitchell-Cullen-Clutterbuck (solid offensively but not good defensively)
Powe-Konopka-Kassian

Suter-Gilbert
Scandella-Spurgeon
Falk/Stoner-Prosser

Backstrom-Harding

Their 2nd and 3rd lines are simply not that good and their blue line depth is young and/or inexperienced. The goaltending solid but generally nothing special. They may make the playoffs based on what happens to Phoenix, Detroit, and Nashville but they are no sure thing and they will not challenge Vancouver for the division, I feel.

They do have a very solid pool of prospects but one big issue that has plagued Minnesota for a while is development. A lot of what they draft and develop do not live up to expectations. Sheppard is an example. Bouchard is an example. Thelen hasn't even played. Pouliot and Gillies had issues. They pretty much gave up on Leddy.
You have to remember that all of that was done under the management before Chuck Fletcher came in. The worst thing Fletcher has done is trade away Leddy but with all the great prospects they have now, I don't think it's something to worry about too much.

hohosaregood is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2012, 08:14 PM
  #54
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 32,289
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
You have to remember that all of that was done under the management before Chuck Fletcher came in. The worst thing Fletcher has done is trade away Leddy but with all the great prospects they have now, I don't think it's something to worry about too much.
Traded away Leddy for Barker that they bought out, I believe. I think they're getting better but the question of development is still there for now. When their youth starts to take on impact roles and contribute on a consistent basis, I'll bend a little bit on them but right now they don't have that. They have a bunch of maybes right now.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 04:36 AM
  #55
Audio Outlaw
Jaded Sharks Fan
 
Audio Outlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bay Area, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,515
vCash: 1185
At this point, I don't really care what is next. I just want to see something done to improve this team.

Audio Outlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 08:17 AM
  #56
sharks fan 209
Registered User
 
sharks fan 209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Outlaw View Post
At this point, I don't really care what is next. I just want to see something done to improve this team.
I couldnt agree with you more. This team right now makes me not really look forward to the season

sharks fan 209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 08:26 AM
  #57
Fistfullofbeer
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Fistfullofbeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
Country: India
Posts: 8,001
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Outlaw View Post
At this point, I don't really care what is next. I just want to see something done to improve this team.
Its not going to take much to improve the team

- Add a defensive minded special teams coach to help the PK
- Add a speedy top-6 scoring winger

Those two changes will make us 'better'.

Question really is how much we give up for that winger? I do not expect DW to pick up Semin. Doan, while a good player, does not really help the speed situation all that much.

I am hoping we dont get Nash, unless its for scraps but I do not see that happening either. But I am expecting something out of another trade.

__________________
What?! Look, he thinks he's people!
Fistfullofbeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 08:50 AM
  #58
Shaughnessy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Orangeville/Brampton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7
vCash: 500
Based around idea of a potential trade with Toronto, how would you feel about a Clowe/Murray for Kulemin/Gunnarsson swap?

Kulemin had a down year, but speaking as a partial Leafs fan, it didn't appear to be from lack of effort, more bad luck. He has 20-goal potential and would probably fit in nicely on the second line. Gunnarsson would also address the need for a left handed PMD who could play on the second powerplay unit (I know interest has been shown in him on this board before). Add picks accordingly to either side to make more appealing. I know Clowe is a piece that interests Leafs fans as well.

(Edit: First post/proposal on these boards, please be gentle )

Shaughnessy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 08:56 AM
  #59
Fistfullofbeer
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Fistfullofbeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
Country: India
Posts: 8,001
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaughnessy View Post
Based around idea of a potential trade with Toronto, how would you feel about a Clowe/Murray for Kulemin/Gunnarsson swap?

Kulemin had a down year, but speaking as a partial Leafs fan, it didn't appear to be from lack of effort, more bad luck. He has 20-goal potential and would probably fit in nicely on the second line. Gunnarsson would also address the need for a left handed PMD who could play on the second powerplay unit (I know interest has been shown in him on this board before). Add picks accordingly to either side to make more appealing. I know Clowe is a piece that interests Leafs fans as well.

(Edit: First post/proposal on these boards, please be gentle )
I would be fine with this.

Fistfullofbeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 08:59 AM
  #60
KirbyDots
Registered User
 
KirbyDots's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mountain View, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,919
vCash: 500
My spider sense is tingling! DW pulls off a trade none of us see coming for a much better price than we previously deemed possible. Max Pacioretty for Clowe a pick and a prospect! You heard it here first Sharks fans.

KirbyDots is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 11:08 AM
  #61
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Outlaw View Post
At this point, I don't really care what is next. I just want to see something done to improve this team.
Not all movement improves the team. Do you want DW to make a foolish trade? Sometimes trades that look good on paper don't work out so well.

And, do you want a trade that improves their performance in the short term but doesn't take them all the way while it postpones the time where they will be face to face with a rebuild? It also may rob from the pieces necessary for a rebuild.

Questions to answer. Immediate gratification that postpones, delays or precludes long-term gratification.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 11:30 AM
  #62
do0glas
Registered User
 
do0glas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Not all movement improves the team. Do you want DW to make a foolish trade? Sometimes trades that look good on paper don't work out so well.

And, do you want a trade that improves their performance in the short term but doesn't take them all the way while it postpones the time where they will be face to face with a rebuild? It also may rob from the pieces necessary for a rebuild.

Questions to answer. Immediate gratification that postpones, delays or precludes long-term gratification.
realistically if you arent moving marleau/thornton or even just hanging on to thornton you are addressing a short term need to maximize his window to win.

so the team youve built around him thus far hasnt worked and a change in system that doesnt fit the current players will be worse.

we have no one in the top 6 under 27. thats not a good thing.

do0glas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 11:33 AM
  #63
LunchPail
Registered User
 
LunchPail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 47
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
we have no one in the top 6 under 27. thats not a good thing.
Pavs is 27 and Cooch is 23...

LunchPail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 11:38 AM
  #64
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
realistically if you arent moving marleau/thornton or even just hanging on to thornton you are addressing a short term need to maximize his window to win.

so the team youve built around him thus far hasnt worked and a change in system that doesnt fit the current players will be worse.

we have no one in the top 6 under 27. thats not a good thing.
This isn't 1970. Being 32 means you still have 5+ years left in you...

My guy in the Sharks org, when I spoke with him many weeks ago, seemed pretty confident that Marleau and Thornton were the two untouchables; if we win, we would have to do it with them on board.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 11:43 AM
  #65
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
realistically if you arent moving marleau/thornton or even just hanging on to thornton you are addressing a short term need to maximize his window to win.

so the team youve built around him thus far hasnt worked and a change in system that doesnt fit the current players will be worse.

we have no one in the top 6 under 27. thats not a good thing.
But if any maximization falls short do you really want to do it? (eg increases chances from 75-1 to 65-1)

My take is that the Sharks are now a bubble team barring miraculous moves. And a miraculous move now is more likely to make a difference after this season which is JT/Marleau's final year. I look back and see a lot of teams that have flailed in the "big name" market and it never ends well. Depleted prospect pool and no concept of team system. Long road back to respectability.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 11:47 AM
  #66
do0glas
Registered User
 
do0glas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,024
vCash: 500
sorry forgot about couture. and pavs is 28 in 6 days.

but still, clowe is almost 30, marleau, thornton, and havlat are over. pavs/couture are the only "young" players in the top 6. im not trying to say once you hit 30 you dont contribute any more. but a quick glance at the top 20 tells an interesting story about the ratio of age/pts return and what is more likely to get you a difference maker.

do0glas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 11:54 AM
  #67
do0glas
Registered User
 
do0glas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
But if any maximization falls short do you really want to do it? (eg increases chances from 75-1 to 65-1)

My take is that the Sharks are now a bubble team barring miraculous moves. And a miraculous move now is more likely to make a difference after this season which is JT/Marleau's final year. I look back and see a lot of teams that have flailed in the "big name" market and it never ends well. Depleted prospect pool and no concept of team system. Long road back to respectability.
trust me i agree. i think the "farm" system under us. AHL etc has been neglected because those players have just been trade fodder for recent years. there isnt a winning culture up and down the organization.

the question Doug Wilson should ask himself is if he realistically can put together something around marleau/thornton/couture that will win a cup. if the answer is no, then you cant just run out these guys contracts wasting prospects and picks to put together a winning team that probably wont go all the way.

I think there are other avenues DW should be looking down than nash. he has the potential to be the difference, but the price is too steep.

do0glas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 01:33 PM
  #68
gonegonegone*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Diego
Country: United States
Posts: 3,338
vCash: 500
dw after making final four: i must blow this team apart!! big trades! big signings! screw chemistry!

dw after the worst season in his tenure and probably the most disappointing sharks season ever: hrm don't want to make too many changes... even though we almost missed the playoffs, and only won 1 game, and this team displayed pathetic chemistry on the ice, and we have severe personnel issues, we are close i can feel it!

gonegonegone* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 01:37 PM
  #69
Fistfullofbeer
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Fistfullofbeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
Country: India
Posts: 8,001
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
dw after making final four: i must blow this team apart!! big trades! big signings! screw chemistry!

dw after the worst season in his tenure and probably the most disappointing sharks season ever: hrm don't want to make too many changes... even though we almost missed the playoffs, and only won 1 game, and this team displayed pathetic chemistry on the ice, and we have severe personnel issues, we are close i can feel it!
Fans have no idea what DW is thinking. He said in the past that we need wingers and he will be looking at getting them. He also said that our PK sucked and we will have to address that. Just because we have not seen any changes yet does not mean its not going to happen.

Its only July 5th.

Fistfullofbeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 01:42 PM
  #70
bproeder
The rich man's Bozak
 
bproeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
My spider sense is tingling! DW pulls off a trade none of us see coming for a much better price than we previously deemed possible. Max Pacioretty for Clowe a pick and a prospect! You heard it here first Sharks fans.
I agree with you. Something is brewing outside of the Nash deal and I think DW has been working on it for awhile. I sense something is going down pretty soon. I just hope I like it. If it involves Pavelski, the return better be awesome!

On a separate note, when the hell are they going to announce assistant coaches?

bproeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 01:44 PM
  #71
BrianSmith
Chokers
 
BrianSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cali
Country: United States
Posts: 3,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
dw after making final four: i must blow this team apart!! big trades! big signings! screw chemistry!

dw after the worst season in his tenure and probably the most disappointing sharks season ever: hrm don't want to make too many changes... even though we almost missed the playoffs, and only won 1 game, and this team displayed pathetic chemistry on the ice, and we have severe personnel issues, we are close i can feel it!
My biggest gripe with DW is that each year he seemingly introduced a 'new' team that introduced way to much churn, and then expected results the following year. I would have loved to have given our 09 team another chance - the one that bounced in the 1st round. We were putting it together. If we would have had that team, and added Malhotra to that cheap contract, I think we may have had a good chance at competing.

BrianSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 01:52 PM
  #72
gonegonegone*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Diego
Country: United States
Posts: 3,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Fans have no idea what DW is thinking. He said in the past that we need wingers and he will be looking at getting them. He also said that our PK sucked and we will have to address that. Just because we have not seen any changes yet does not mean its not going to happen.

Its only July 5th.
what he says is garbage, what he does is all that matters. by this time last off season we already massively overhauled our roster. the big moves he can make at this point in time are either limited or a total mistake (pavs+ for nash). maybe all that's left is a clowe for a faster but less talented wing, and signing more 4th liners. we are not at all close to being cup contenders. our record and playoff disaster reflected the on-ice quality of the team, which to say isn't in the top tier.

if you are happy with being a playoff team though and think the finals is too hard, then yeah dw is doing a good job.

gonegonegone* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 01:58 PM
  #73
gonegonegone*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Diego
Country: United States
Posts: 3,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
My biggest gripe with DW is that each year he seemingly introduced a 'new' team that introduced way to much churn, and then expected results the following year. I would have loved to have given our 09 team another chance - the one that bounced in the 1st round. We were putting it together. If we would have had that team, and added Malhotra to that cheap contract, I think we may have had a good chance at competing.
as disapointing as the upset was, we still had a really good season. i mean pres cup and all. ana was super hot coming in to the 8th spot, with all cylinders firing, while we limped in kind of injured. they almost upset the eventual champs and took them to 7 games, better than anyone else by far. yet we blew that team apart big time.

gonegonegone* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 02:08 PM
  #74
TealTownUSA
Registered User
 
TealTownUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 415
Country: United States
Posts: 1,105
vCash: 50
luckly for taco, seto, and heater they got more guns. i just don't like these 10+ year contracts unless they're very young players.

13 mill for two of the top UFAs? Is the NHL star stacking now like NBA for championships? WTF

TealTownUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2012, 02:16 PM
  #75
gonegonegone*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Diego
Country: United States
Posts: 3,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TealTownUSA View Post
luckly for taco, seto, and heater they got more guns. i just don't like these 10+ year contracts unless they're very young players.

13 mill for two of the top UFAs? Is the NHL star stacking now like NBA for championships? WTF
if you feel your team is close then you make the last few acquisitions to put you over the top whatever it takes. most recent elite teams have done so. lak last season went from ho hum first round losers to studtastic champs with some significant additions and super long contracts.

gonegonegone* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.